woods-racer Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) It was low hanging fruit. I mean, really? Jerry Jones was who we wanted to use there? Well, if you tuck your fruit up a little higher someone wouldn't come a long a whack it with a stick. :P Edited December 30, 2015 by Woods-Racer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 My argument from practically day one was that there didn't need to be a learning curve at all. What did Golisano have to learn, besides the difference between a puck and a meatball? People may not like it, but he hired someone to run things for him and it almost produced a Cup or two. The Pegulas' ginormous egos will be their downfall. The "reason for existence" business was always a bunch of BS. The Sabres exist to be the team Terry wins a Cup with. The only fault I find with Bucky's piece is it overstates the importance of the Pegulas to Buffalo's resurgence. "The" reason the city is thriving? A bit over the top, but I understand why he had to wash some balls. You surely liked his puff piece on Disco Dan. He went out to Michigan and everything. What is the basis for the 2 bolded statements? What are the specific indicators of "ginormous egos" on the part of the Pegulas, and what other factors have materially contributed to downtown development? Okay, okay. I read the whole piece - got beyond the excerpt above and the inflammatory headline. Much of what is said in the piece is fair. The fact that the Bills' top two football people (one of whom is a wind bag coach) report to Terry is a bad idea. PLF being president of hockey ops was a terrific idea. (Bucky's insistence that PLF was "swept out" is the sort of crap that undermines his credibility.) The Sabres could still use a president of hockey ops. Same goes for the Bills. I agree that the Bills need a senior, experienced football guy to evaluate the operation. I have been lobbying for a long time that a new broom should sweep clean -- i.e. Whaley, Brandon, Overdorf and pretty much everyone else that was in place during the generation in the wilderness should be gone. At the very least let someone who knows the business take a look and make some recommendations. He brought info directly related to the premise of this board. Not exactly a load of crap. Good post. To me, good owners aren't cheap, are good to their community, and stay out of player/personnel decisions. He's certainly got 2/3 of them, and appears to be getting better at #3 This whole article wouldn't exist if the Bills were in the playoffs. And basing their demise off a 2 year owner and not the gm, players, or coach, is far fetched to me Sabres: some might say completing two successful tanks, you know the goal, was in fact a success. That the team is not challenging for the playoffs less than 40 games into the following season should surprise nobody except... Bills: You mean the Pegulas haven't turned around the most dysfunctional franchise in all of pro sports in their less than two seasons in charge? Color me shocked that the last two years were the same as the previous 14. But yeah..Pegulas bad! The Bills' problems are far beyond what any football czar is going to quickly fix. Both of these. nfreeman's line about "fear and loathing" of the wealthy in WNY keeps coming back to me. It has to be the total opposite when it comes to Pegula. It goes way too far and has lasted way too long. My mind is boggled that people think that just because he made billions speculating in oil and gas that he is qualified to run the Bills and the Sabres in the way he has run them. You know who Terry is? (Fill in the name of the person who posts here twice a week when the team is winning and who you think is full of crap.) That's who. Unless you honestly feel that guy is qualified to run the Sabres, please, no offense, STFU about Terry knowing what he's doing or any hope of Terry figuring it out. He is PASabreFan, and you sure as hell didn't want me saying I like hard-working, gritty players and of course Darcy will report to me and, yeah, I can work with the GM. I'll go to my grave with this one. Sorry. It's hard to reconcile your consistent attacks on the Pegulas, Golisano, Lindy, Miller, etc. with anything else. How, exactly, is he "running" the teams? What specifically do you know about his role? That he was involved in hiring Rex Ryan? How many NFL owners do you think are not involved in head coach hiring decisions? He's not taking any bait from Bucky -- he's in the same boat as him. And with due respect to 3putt, I don't need or want PA to stop criticizing Pegula. I don't agree with much of what PA says, but it's his ax to grind. He grinds it because he loves the Sabres. Likewise, it's a bad look to be telling people to STFU when they reasonably view the matter differently than you do. Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 He's not taking any bait from Bucky -- he's in the same boat as him. And with due respect to 3putt, I don't need or want PA to stop criticizing Pegula. I don't agree with much of what PA says, but it's his ax to grind. He grinds it because he loves the Sabres. Likewise, it's a bad look to be telling people to STFU when they reasonably view the matter differently than you do. I posted to stop whining about his ownership. Criticize the Murray hiring, Byslma hiring, Leino contract Erhoff contract et al to your hearts content. But in the end TP/KP wrote the check. They are qualified to do anything they want with the team including burning it to the ground. They own it. We are consumers of the product. If a consumer doesn't like the product don't buy it. But constantly going on about meddling is annoying to me when it is within the purview of the owners to do so. You may not like, Pa may not like, I may not like but thems are the breaks. I voted my wallet with the Bills. (See my post circa the Ryan hiring.) I happen to like the direction the Sabres are heading in. I criticized the Lehner trade. But I also realize that Murray will win some and lose. And I still wish to consume the product. So reread what I posted. Criticism of events, decisions etc. great fodder for conversation. But this incessant rant about the owners obligation to the fans is boring. They owe us nothing. We owe them nothing. We coexist of our own free wills. And neither is compelled to do so against their will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I posted to stop whining about his ownership. Criticize the Murray hiring, Byslma hiring, Leino contract Erhoff contract et al to your hearts content. But in the end TP/KP wrote the check. They are qualified to do anything they want with the team including burning it to the ground. They own it. We are consumers of the product. If a consumer doesn't like the product don't buy it. But constantly going on about meddling is annoying to me when it is within the purview of the owners to do so. You may not like, Pa may not like, I may not like but thems are the breaks. I voted my wallet with the Bills. (See my post circa the Ryan hiring.) I happen to like the direction the Sabres are heading in. I criticized the Lehner trade. But I also realize that Murray will win some and lose. And I still wish to consume the product. So reread what I posted. Criticism of events, decisions etc. great fodder for conversation. But this incessant rant about the owners obligation to the fans is boring. They owe us nothing. We owe them nothing. We coexist of our own free wills. And neither is compelled to do so against their will. You do know that both teams play in buildings owned by Erie County, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) I agree that the Bills need a senior, experienced football guy to evaluate the operation. I have been lobbying for a long time that a new broom should sweep clean -- i.e. Whaley, Brandon, Overdorf and pretty much everyone else that was in place during the generation in the wilderness should be gone. At the very least let someone who knows the business take a look and make some recommendations. And, for the love of the sweet baby Jesus, it is clear that Terry Pegula wants someone to do that as well. Best I can tell: It's just that the guy he wanted - Polian - didn't want and/or felt he could not take a full-time czar gig. Like I said upthread: The number of candidates who are both qualified and sufficiently known to/trusted by the Pegulas (or a proxy ("crony" in Bucky-speak)) is a quantity that could be counted on one or two hands. I posted to stop whining about his ownership. Criticize the Murray hiring, Byslma hiring, Leino contract Erhoff contract et al to your hearts content. But in the end TP/KP wrote the check. They are qualified to do anything they want with the team including burning it to the ground. They own it. We are consumers of the product. If a consumer doesn't like the product don't buy it. But constantly going on about meddling is annoying to me when it is within the purview of the owners to do so. You may not like, Pa may not like, I may not like but thems are the breaks. I voted my wallet with the Bills. (See my post circa the Ryan hiring.) I happen to like the direction the Sabres are heading in. I criticized the Lehner trade. But I also realize that Murray will win some and lose. And I still wish to consume the product. So reread what I posted. Criticism of events, decisions etc. great fodder for conversation. But this incessant rant about the owners obligation to the fans is boring. They owe us nothing. We owe them nothing. We coexist of our own free wills. And neither is compelled to do so against their will. Well, that's where you and PA will diverge. PA views the Pegulas as more - maybe much more - than what you're ascribing to them. I think I know full well where you're coming from because lawyer stuff and business stuff. And I think I've come to understand where PA's coming from. I think he sees the Pegulas as custodians of something he and 1000s of others cherish, and he seeks to hold them accountable for how they're treating that cherished, beloved thing. Almost as though they owe the fans a fiduciary duty of sorts. Edited December 30, 2015 by That Aud Smell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 You do know that both teams play in buildings owned by Erie County, right? I don't see the relevance. The Sabres and Bills are tenants. I am not privy to the lease deals. I suppose you could vote out the county executive until he terminates their leases but I do not know where that gets you. But the county has no say on how the teams are run no more so than Simon properties can tell JC Penney how to run its stores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Your baiting needs work. Maybe if I had some encouragement for the work I'm doing in that regard, it would improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Super Bowl winning owner? How many wins since Mike Lynn went off payroll? Worst ####ing trade ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 And I think I've come to understand where PA's coming from. I think he sees the Pegulas as custodians of something he and 1000s of others cherish, and he seeks to hold them accountable for how they're treating that cherished, beloved thing. Almost as though they owe the fans a fiduciary duty of sorts. THAT is very well put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 And, for the love of the sweet baby Jesus, it is clear that Terry Pegula wants someone to do that as well. Best I can tell: It's just that the guy he wanted - Polian - didn't want and/or felt he could not take a full-time czar gig. Like I said upthread: The number of candidates who are both qualified and sufficiently known to/trusted by the Pegulas (or a proxy ("crony" in Bucky-speak)) is a quantity that could be counted on one or two hands. This goes to the difficulty of owning a team "the right way." I won't argue that everything has to start with the Pegulas. "In the beginning..." But how do these non-sports people pick a president? It's almost like they'd have to name an advisory panel or something and have that panel suggest the president. I do not like the idea of the Pegulas limiting themselves to people they know and trust. That's how you end up with retreads like Polian. Oh yeah, Terry says he remember this fellow who built the Bills' Super Bowls teams, when was that, anyway? Go find the best and brightest football mind out there. Money won't be an object. And it probably will be someone the Pegulas have never heard of. How can anyone dispute cronyism at the Sabres? Terry knew Cliff, and Cliff knew Black, and Black returned a favor and brought on Sawyer, and they all knew Patrick, and somehow Battista was begatted... Maybe if I had some encouragement for the work I'm doing in that regard, it would improve. I'm not lending a hand. THAT is very well put. I agree. I don't think anyone can write a check and own the Sabres any more than China can write a check and own the United States. It's kind of like how Rick will never accept the title of Voice of the Sabres. He has maintained that Ted Darling will always be the Voice of the Sabres. The Knoxes and the fans and the community are the only owners the Sabres have ever had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Let's talk about specifics. What has Terry done as owner? 1) hired Ted Black to run the business 2) gave Darcy and Lindy a couple years to get the team back on track 3) signed off/encouraged big deals for Ehrhoff and Leino 4) bought the Amerks 5) Remodeled the FNC 6) embarked on the tank 7) dumped Darcy and hired Pat Lafontaine as a hockey czar 8) signed off on the hiring of Tim Murray 9) built the Harbour centre 10) lost Lafontaine under mysterious circumstances 11) brought the draft and WJC to Buffalo 12) replaced Black with Russ Brandon Did I miss anything important? I'm not talking cronyism or fracking, I'm talking actual decisions that shape the franchise. Edited December 30, 2015 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 But how do these non-sports people pick a president? It's almost like they'd have to name an advisory panel or something and have that panel suggest the president. I do not like the idea of the Pegulas limiting themselves to people they know and trust. I quite like this idea - enlist a panel of six people (one of whom is Russ Brandon (so, five outsiders)) to find three candidates for the gig, and then take it from there. As for that last piece, I think that is a reality that cannot be escaped here. But I also think a sufficient level of knowing and trusting can be built rather readily, even in the interview process. Especially if Mrs. Pegula is making some of that famous arugula salad of hers aboard the family's yacht. I'm not lending a hand. :flirt: I agree. I don't think anyone can write a check and own the Sabres any more than China can write a check and own the United States. It's kind of like how Rick will never accept the title of Voice of the Sabres. He has maintained that Ted Darling will always be the Voice of the Sabres. The Knoxes and the fans and the community are the only owners the Sabres have ever had. I admire the sentiment, but that last bit is sorta just crazy talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Bucky Gleason's credibility, in a single article: http://www.trendingbuffalo.com/life/heres-proof-bucky-gleason-is-full-of-/#.VRWAfN--9l4.twitter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I don't care about Bucky's credibility one bit. This thread has nothing to do with him aside from PA starting a conversation using his article. It's a worthy question and discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I don't care about Bucky's credibility one bit. This thread has nothing to do with him aside from PA starting a conversation using his article. It's a worthy question and discussion. Fine, I'll attack the substance: if the Pegulas don't know what they're doing...then they don't know what they're doing. If they can't be trusted to hire the right coach and GM, why is it logical that they should hire the person who would in turn judge the fate of the coach and GM? Because he needs an angle to produce an article, and an easy avenue is "well let's look at what they're not doing and proclaim that the answer, no matter if it's logically coherent." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Fine, I'll attack the substance: if the Pegulas don't know what they're doing...then they don't know what they're doing. If they can't be trusted to hire the right coach and GM, why is it logical that they should hire the person who would in turn judge the fate of the coach and GM? Because he needs an angle to produce an article, and an easy avenue is "well let's look at what they're not doing and proclaim that the answer, no matter if it's logically coherent." Why is it bad, though, for us (and Bucky) to hold them accountable and let them know we are paying attention? Would it be better for us to just bend over and take it from the rich owners? 3putt seems to think so. What the Pegulas have faced by the local media has been a love-in compared to what other owners have faced around the league(s). It was discussed on NY radio this morning about Chip Kelly getting another job that sometimes nyophyte owners have to make their own mistakes. All I thought about was Terry and PA is not wrong for pointing it out. Anyone who doesn't like it has the option of not clicking the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Why is it bad, though, for us (and Bucky) to hold them accountable and let them know we are paying attention? Would it be better for us to just bend over and take it from the rich owners? 3putt seems to think so. What the Pegulas have faced by the local media has been a love-in compared to what other owners have faced around the league(s). It was discussed on NY radio this morning about Chip Kelly getting another job that sometimes nyophyte owners have to make their own mistakes. All I thought about was Terry and PA is not wrong for pointing it out. Anyone who doesn't like it has the option of not clicking the thread. Never said it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Why is it bad, though, for us (and Bucky) to hold them accountable and let them know we are paying attention? Would it be better for us to just bend over and take it from the rich owners? 3putt seems to think so. What the Pegulas have faced by the local media has been a love-in compared to what other owners have faced around the league(s). It was discussed on NY radio this morning about Chip Kelly getting another job that sometimes nyophyte owners have to make their own mistakes. All I thought about was Terry and PA is not wrong for pointing it out. Anyone who doesn't like it has the option of not clicking the thread. Hold them accountable for what? Being responsible for most of the good news in the area the last few years? The Sabres have the best young core they've had in 10+ years and a ton of potential. The Bills landed a highly coveted head coach last offseason and will probably finish with 7 wins in his first year. How is this a disaster again? I've also spent most of my life bracing for the Bills to move away and 2015 was the first time in 20 years where I didn't think about it. Should I be on my way to Valu Home Center to buy torches and pitchforks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 On the ice the Sabres are about as good as they were when the Pegulas took over. The difference is they have Eichel and O'Reilly and appear to now be trending up, not down. Off the ice, they are in the best shape they probably have ever been. The Pegulas have made mistakes; I've listed them above. But it doesnt look like they are in over their heads to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thwomp! Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Hold them accountable for what? Being responsible for most of the good news in the area the last few years? The Sabres have the best young core they've had in 10+ years and a ton of potential. The Bills landed a highly coveted head coach last offseason and will probably finish with 7 wins in his first year. How is this a disaster again? I've also spent most of my life bracing for the Bills to move away and 2015 was the first time in 20 years where I didn't think about it. Should I be on my way to Valu Home Center to buy torches and pitchforks? Seriously? :huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Seriously? :huh: Yes, seriously. The Bills wouldn't have even been able to land a guy like Rex Ryan before the Pegulas showed up. He's been a disappointment in his first year but his track record is still sound. And 7-9 isn't awful. The Bills are right where they've been since 2000 -- the middle of the pack in the NFL. And that's pretty much where they'll be until they have a franchise QB (regardless of who the coach is). And "How is this a disaster again?" applies to both teams taken together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Bucky Gleason's credibility, in a single article: http://www.trendingbuffalo.com/life/heres-proof-bucky-gleason-is-full-of-/#.VRWAfN--9l4.twitter Meh. We're all hypocrites some where along the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Yes, seriously. The Bills wouldn't have even been able to land a guy like Rex Ryan before the Pegulas showed up. He's been a disappointment in his first year but his track record is still sound. And 7-9 isn't awful. The Bills are right where they've been since 2000 -- the middle of the pack in the NFL. And that's pretty much where they'll be until they have a franchise QB (regardless of who the coach is). And "How is this a disaster again?" applies to both teams taken together. This was actually year three of a rebuild with the Bills. They just happened to have to change coaches during it because the last guy apparently didn't smile enough. I think that's why the judgement leash is a little shorter than it should be. And I, too, am not sure Rex was highly coveted, certainly not 5 years/27MM coveted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thwomp! Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Yes, seriously. The Bills wouldn't have even been able to land a guy like Rex Ryan before the Pegulas showed up. He's been a disappointment in his first year but his track record is still sound. And 7-9 isn't awful. The Bills are right where they've been since 2000 -- the middle of the pack in the NFL. And that's pretty much where they'll be until they have a franchise QB (regardless of who the coach is). And "How is this a disaster again?" applies to both teams taken together. Expectations were much higher than 7 wins. It's also debatable as to how "highly coveted" Rex is/was. As I recall, Atlanta may have been interested in him, but that was it. Rex very well could have come here if Ralph was still around since he didn't have many or any other options. And yes the Bills are in the same place they've been for 16 years, teetering on the edge of yet another disaster mode, which is pretty damn disappointing to me. Edited December 30, 2015 by EastsideOasis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woods-racer Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Your baiting needs work. Maybe if I had some encouragement for the work I'm doing in that regard, it would improve. I'm not lending a hand. :beer: I missed the first go round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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