dudacek Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 If his name was Drew Stafford we wouldn't be having this conversation. He might be a more likeable 2/3 winger, but I'm not sure he's better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 I don't think most of us advocating trading him want the pick for the purpose of being used as a pick. Additionally you're ignoring the opportunity cost: $4 million spent on McGinn is $4 million they can't use on something better. I look at it this way: if we spend $4 million on McGinn, we can only realistically target one of Eriksson, Boedker, Yandle. If we trade McGinn, we can target two. I'd rather have any 2/3 of those players over 1/3 + McGinn. I know, I know, it's not guaranteed we'd get 2/3 of them...but I want the option to try. Edit: Just wanted to add, I think I can get McGinn-caliber production (30-35 points) for less than what he'll get on the market. I'm less convinced than you are that McGinn's, or players better than McGinn, are available enough to move if you have one. We're simply opening another hole IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) If his name was Drew Stafford we wouldn't be having this conversation. He might be a more likeable 2/3 winger, but I'm not sure he's better. I'll go one farther: I think McGinn is worse than Stafford. At basically everything. I'm less convinced than you are that McGinn's, or players better than McGinn, are available enough to move if you have one. We're simply opening another hole IMO. It's not happening tonight, but perhaps soon I shall look at the past couple free agency periods and find players with similar production--see how many there were and how much they got paid. I'm on a mission to convince! Edited February 21, 2016 by TrueBlueGED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 I'll go one farther: I think McGinn is worse than Stafford. At basically everything. It's not happening tonight, but perhaps soon I shall look at the past couple free agency periods and find players with similar production--see how many there were and how much they got paid. I'm on a mission to convince! Well, it's a two step process. First, you have to identify them (easily enough done), Then you have to compete with 29 other teams to sign them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Well, it's a two step process. First, you have to identify them (easily enough done), Then you have to compete with 29 other teams to sign them. Pfffft, as if Buffalo ever has any problems recruiting free agents :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 I'll go one farther: I think McGinn is worse than Stafford. At basically everything. ! You're mostly right but Jamie has a much more competitive attitude and scores more from tough areas. Those qualities were so sorely lacking from the Darcy teams it's hard to let go when they arrive. I'd also say the Tank has conditioned us to be overprotective of real NHL players because we have so few. And it's made us sick of trading for futures. This isn't trading for futures. It's about using cap space on core players. @Thorny I think we are in basic agreement. We just differ on what he would sign for and what he could fetch in return. @We've Sabres are in a much better position to sign free agents than most teams, given our cap space and our ability to dangle spots beside Eichel and O'Reilly as bait. We won't be left at the altar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Yeah, I see teams like Pittsburgh, sorely weak at wing season after season (hey, what winger would pass up a slot next to Sidney, right?), and see the centers on our team forced to play wing. I'm not in any hurry to give up one of the two legit wingers this team has. We'll disagree here. At's OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 I like McGinn but he is asset that other teams will want for the Cup run. There's no certainty we can extend him for a decent price, would he take a discount when he can cash in on a once in a career chance. Will he be the same player in 3-4 years? Will his skills erode a la Moulson? Many people wanted Moulson back after his rental move. If he loves it here, we will be near the top of his list and have a chance to get him in July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) I don't think most of us advocating trading him want the pick for the purpose of being used as a pick. Additionally you're ignoring the opportunity cost: $4 million spent on McGinn is $4 million they can't use on something better. I look at it this way: if we spend $4 million on McGinn, we can only realistically target one of Eriksson, Boedker, Yandle. If we trade McGinn, we can target two. I'd rather have any 2/3 of those players over 1/3 + McGinn. I know, I know, it's not guaranteed we'd get 2/3 of them...but I want the option to try. Edit: Just wanted to add, I think I can get McGinn-caliber production (30-35 points) for less than what he'll get on the market. True are you still interested in Boedker with his numbers? His Goals per 60 is .47 and Assists per 60 is .55 and but his points per 60 is 1.02. I would be hesitant to give him 5.5-6 million per year. As far as McGinn is concerned, I think Murray is going to save as much cap space as possible until Stamkos makes up his mind. Edited February 21, 2016 by BRAWNDO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 True are you still interested in Boedker with his numbers? His Goals per 60 is .47 and Assists per 60 is .55 and but his points per 60 is 1.02. I would be hesitant to give him 5.5-6 million per year. As far as McGinn is concerned, I think Murray is going to save as much cap space as possible until Stamkos makes up his mind. It's quite possible I'd be priced out of the Boedker sweeps in the early going--$5.5 x5 is my max, and really, I wouldn't be thrilled at all about it. Might not even go that high with the chips on the table--my #1 priority is still fixing the blue line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 I would much rather have McGinn than Stafford, even without taking Stafford's higher cost into consideration. If we factor in contacts there is no question, IMHO. I'm not that interested in Boedker, and definitely not at the price he'll command as a UFA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus_ Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 McGinn has been a nice throw-in to the O'Reilly trade, but he should be used for assets. Matt Moulson, Cody McCormick both came back. It isn't impossible. Signing him for 4x4 is ludicrous. Take the second round pick and get to June :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 McGinn has been a nice throw-in to the O'Reilly trade, but he should be used for assets. Matt Moulson, Cody McCormick both came back. It isn't impossible. Signing him for 4x4 is ludicrous. Take the second round pick and get to June :) What is your plan for 2nd line wing then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Of all things, this Tweet from Bill Hoppe has me thinking again on keeping McGinn. Jack Eichel: "I’m always saying something, usually messing around or picking on McGinn." #Sabres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted February 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 What is your plan for 2nd line wing then? Not McGinn, whether he's here or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 If his name was Drew Stafford we wouldn't be having this conversation. He might be a more likeable 2/3 winger, but I'm not sure he's better. If he put in Staffordesque effort, you're right, we wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 "It’s believed at least one team has made an offer of a first-round pick plus a prospect" for Ladd. #NHLJets Per TSN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 You're mostly right but Jamie has a much more competitive attitude and scores more from tough areas. Those qualities were so sorely lacking from the Darcy teams it's hard to let go when they arrive. I'd also say the Tank has conditioned us to be overprotective of real NHL players because we have so few. And it's made us sick of trading for futures. This isn't trading for futures. It's about using cap space on core players. @Thorny I think we are in basic agreement. We just differ on what he would sign for and what he could fetch in return. @We've Sabres are in a much better position to sign free agents than most teams, given our cap space and our ability to dangle spots beside Eichel and O'Reilly as bait. We won't be left at the altar. In your view, do we have our future core wingers on the roster already, or are we yet to acquire them? Yeah, I see teams like Pittsburgh, sorely weak at wing season after season (hey, what winger would pass up a slot next to Sidney, right?), and see the centers on our team forced to play wing. I'm not in any hurry to give up one of the two legit wingers this team has. We'll disagree here. At's OK. I am leaning towards the bolded right now too. I am willing myself to be convinced by dudacek and True, among others, because I think Murray is going to trade him. But.... It's quite possible I'd be priced out of the Boedker sweeps in the early going--$5.5 x5 is my max, and really, I wouldn't be thrilled at all about it. Might not even go that high with the chips on the table--my #1 priority is still fixing the blue line. I am definitely there, with D being the priority. But who are our wings going forward for the top 2 lines? Are we all going with Kane and Girgensons on the left, Reinhart and Fasching on the right? I would much rather have McGinn than Stafford, even without taking Stafford's higher cost into consideration. If we factor in contacts there is no question, IMHO. I'm not that interested in Boedker, and definitely not at the price he'll command as a UFA. Same question on wings going foward, because you mentioned not wanting Boedker. I guess I am poling everyone, haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 "It’s believed at least one team has made an offer of a first-round pick plus a prospect" for Ladd. #NHLJets Per TSN Florida/Nashville? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I am definitely there, with D being the priority. But who are our wings going forward for the top 2 lines? Are we all going with Kane and Girgensons on the left, Reinhart and Fasching on the right? Kane is on my 3rd line and Fasching would have to earn it. Going into the season I'm looking at Ennis, Reinhart, Girgensons, and UFA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) I'm not sure a Stanley Cup team needs its four top-six wingers to be "core." Kane and Hossa are certainly core. Sharp,probably was too. Saad/Ladd/Panarin, weren't they just good? Gaborik, Williams, Brown and Toffoli? Horton, Lucic, Marchand and Recchi? Kunitz, Fedotenko, Dupuis and Sykora? I seriously can't believe that last group. I think the Sabres can contend with ROR and Kane as two of their top four wingers. It's possible but unlikely that two of Girgensons, Ennis and Fasching could be the other two. I'd say we have to add at least one winger who is better any of those three, but that player is not Jamie McGinn Kane is on my 3rd line and Fasching would have to earn it. Going into the season I'm looking at Ennis, Reinhart, Girgensons, and UFA. When you say third line you really mean away from playmakers, right?You don't mean 14 minutes a night. I laugh when I see Ducky calling Kane a third-liner. He gets more minutes than practically any wing in the league. Edited February 22, 2016 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I'm not sure a Stanley Cup team needs its four top-six wingers to be "core." Kane and Hossa are certainly core. Sharp,probably was too. Saad/Ladd/Panarin, weren't they just good? Gaborik, Williams, Brown and Toffoli? Horton, Lucic, Marchand and Recchi? Kunitz, Fedotenko, Dupuis and Sykora? I seriously can't believe that last group. I think the Sabres can contend with ROR and Kane as two of their top four wingers. It's possible but unlikely that two of Girgensons, Ennis and Fasching could be the other two. I'd say we have to add at least one winger who is better any of those three, but that player is not Jamie McGinn When you say third you really mean away from playmakers, right? You don't mean 14 minutes a night. I laugh when I see Ducky calling Kane a third-liners. He gets more minutes than practically any wing in the league. Correct. Frankly, I really hope to see a more even minute distribution across the board next season with the lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted February 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I've almost entirely written off Ennis. A mixture of my expectation that he will be traded and the fact that I don't think he's going to be right enough to play at a high level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I've almost entirely written off Ennis. A mixture of my expectation that he will be traded and the fact that I don't think he's going to be right enough to play at a high level.Same. I wonder what he fetches right now though, and if it might not be better to just keep him for next year then trade him next deadline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted February 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Same. I wonder what he fetches right now though, and if it might not be better to just keep him for next year then trade him next deadline My hope is that he's able to return at some point this season and regenerate some value heading into the offseason. Looks like I may have been way off in thinking he was a lock to play games again this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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