2016 NHL Draft

[SabresBillsFan]

My hope is we win won of those three picks. It's only fitting.

[Thorny]

That's fine, I'm not offended. I hate when people claim that an 18 year old has 'very real potential' to be better than a player that is currently the best defender on a cup contender, to the point that they wouldn't make that trade straight up. I think it's outrageous to turn down that theoretical trade. I would fire a GM for turning down that trade.

 

And for the record, highlighting past 8th (and 9th, and 10th, and 6th, and so on) overall selections isn't meant to show that the guy we draft isn't going to be good because they historically aren't. It depends on the player, the scouting staff, and the year. But ignoring the plummeting success rate as the first round progresses, which symbolizes the lack of predictability of the development of 18 year old hockey players, on an issue like trading that pick specifically for Cam Fowler, is very dangerous, which is why I brought it up. A snapshot of that pick that shows that maybe we shouldn't be so confident in getting an impact player. I trust GMTM and our scouting but it's so easy to ###### up, and to turn down a sure thing for that is just something I can't do.

We are on the same page here. Fowler is a good enough, proven talent that I would move pick 8 straight up for him. He fits our needs, and is ready now.

 

 

I guess the real question is what are you paying Reinhart and Eichel and Risto?

 

I get this argument, but it seems to be coming up all the time now whenever someone mentions adding a non-draft pick or ELC level player to our roster. The argument can only be used so much, and only to a certain extent. We'll have room for other players besides our current core, we should be able to give Fowler a reasonable extension if we were to trade for him.

 

 

Let me ask you this. if Fowler is truly a top Dman on the Ducks, why would they trade him?

Same reason the Avs traded a #1C ;)

 

  

I think realistically, the only QB-types (to use Murray's phrasing) available are going to come with defensive warts--teams don't let guys with high end offense & defense walk, nor do they trade them. I think that's no small part of the hesitation to trade #8--the pick probably doesn't have the value to be the centerpiece of a deal for a Lindolm-type blueliner. Fowler is certainly better defensively than Yandle, but he's not exactly Shea Weber back there either. I'd probably ultimately pull the trigger on it, but I'd rather explore other options on the left side.

 

And I still don't think Fowler gets moved, although maybe that's just me trying to fend off potential disappointment.

I'm sure you've mentioned it before, but I can't remember right now. What are your preferred options for the left side if not Fowler? Simply to use the pick on the remaining member of the big 3 D that's still on the board when we pick?

[GrassValleyGreg]

Live in LA, go to about 10 Ducks games a year and watch most others. I really don't understand the obsession with Fowler on here. Enamored with speed?

 

There is a reason he is often third on PP and not a factor on PK. Average shot and average in his own end. Good offensive player with speed and handle no doubt but not the player a bunch of you are making him out to be.

 

Just my informed opinion. 

[3putt]

Live in LA, go to about 10 Ducks games a year and watch most others. I really don't understand the obsession with Fowler on here. Enamored with speed?

 

There is a reason he is often third on PP and not a factor on PK. Average shot and average in his own end. Good offensive player with speed and handle no doubt but not the player a bunch of you are making him out to be.

 

Just my informed opinion. 

Ty.

[dudacek]

Live in LA, go to about 10 Ducks games a year and watch most others. I really don't understand the obsession with Fowler on here. Enamored with speed?

 

There is a reason he is often third on PP and not a factor on PK. Average shot and average in his own end. Good offensive player with speed and handle no doubt but not the player a bunch of you are making him out to be.

 

Just my informed opinion. 

 

This is why I think we have a chance for Fowler, why I still like Tyler Myers,  why I think there is a Bogo bunker, why somebody traded a 1st-rounder for Cody Franson and why I don't think our defence is as bad as some make it out to be.

After Doughty, OEL and a small handful of others, there aren't that many great defencemen.

 

I don't disagree with your skill assessment of Fowler, but I would be surprised if there are 50 better defencemen in the NHL.

That might not make him a top-end guy, but by default it makes him a first-pairing guy and probably #2 on the Sabres.

[TrueBlueGED]

I'm sure you've mentioned it before, but I can't remember right now. What are your preferred options for the left side if not Fowler? Simply to use the pick on the remaining member of the big 3 D that's still on the board when we pick?

Well, the UFAs for one: Yandle, Goligoski, Campbell. But through trades, I'm interested in one of the Minnesota lefties (probably Scandella as the odd man out there), Einstein from Winnipeg, Krug from Boston. I don't think any of those guys take the #8 pick to get done, so I'd rather keep #8 and trade for one of them than go for Fowler, even if I think he'd be the best of the bunch. Who knows, maybe we start trading our 1sts to make Cup runs going forward...I just really want to keep this one.

 

I'm also not opposed to trading for an available RHD, even if it's not ideal. If the Ducks decide to move Vatanen instead of Fowler, I think we'd have to be certifiably insane to just say "Oh he's a rightie, no thanks." Same for Barrie (and really, who doesn't want to trade with the Avs again?). Getting a RHD of that caliber allows us to move Pysyk and/or Bogosian for a LHD or maybe even for a forward, then you supplement it with a UFA. Just spit balling pairings:

 

Goligoski-Risto

Gorges-Vatanen

McCabe-Pysyk

 

Definitely not my perfect offseason, but I think that's a considerable improvement over what we iced this year.

[#freejame]

Live in LA, go to about 10 Ducks games a year and watch most others. I really don't understand the obsession with Fowler on here. Enamored with speed?

 

There is a reason he is often third on PP and not a factor on PK. Average shot and average in his own end. Good offensive player with speed and handle no doubt but not the player a bunch of you are making him out to be.

 

Just my informed opinion. 

Isn't that what we're looking for in a left handed defenseman? I think people like him because he fits the build of something people think we need and there is a chance he is available. 

[Randall Flagg]

Isn't that what we're looking for in a left handed defenseman? I think people like him because he fits the build of something people think we need and there is a chance he is available.

Yeap. He's not OEL but I don't want to give up what it would take to get that level of player.

 

And true, didn't Krug have a dreadful season? I don't think he's very good.

[Derrico]

Great discussion on trading 8 for Fowler here boys. 

 

I think I'm leaning toward the Randall side of things.  Some have put together a compelling case that we can afford Stamkos at $11 mil per.  So I'm not worried that in 2 years time and we have to pay Fowler $7 or $7.5 that we can't afford Risto/Eichel/Reinhart.  Remember Molson comes off the books in 3 years and that'll offset part of the raises for Eich/Reinhart.

 

Now, saying the 8th pick has more value than Fowler is debatable.  I agree that the 3 dmen that may be available at 8 could turn into a better player than Fowler.  But two big things: one is we don't have to wait for the development and we can start taking a run at this thing next year while Eich/Reinhart are still on ELC, and two, they wouldn't be the first rookie dmen to bust around that draft position.  Never guarantees and we atleast know what Fowler is.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Derrico

[TrueBlueGED]

Yeap. He's not OEL but I don't want to give up what it would take to get that level of player.

 

And true, didn't Krug have a dreadful season? I don't think he's very good.

 

Nah, in second pairing minutes he was Boston's best possession defenseman and 2nd best scoring defenseman at ES (behind Colin Miller, who only played half the year and was in crazy sheltered minutes). He had 44 points, more than half of which were at even strength. The problem here is fit: I wouldn't want him to be on the 1st pair next to Risto because I don't think he can handle those minutes, but I think Bogo is a horrible complement to him, so our 2nd pair doesn't work either. Krug would work best with a defensive stalwart on the other side.

 

Edited April 12, 2016 by TrueBlueGED

[LGR4GM]

#BringBackMikeWeber :P

Nah, in second pairing minutes he was Boston's best possession defenseman and 2nd best scoring defenseman at ES (behind Colin Miller, who only played half the year and was in crazy sheltered minutes). He had 44 points, more than half of which were at even strength. The problem here is fit: I wouldn't want him to be on the 1st pair next to Risto because I don't think he can handle those minutes, but I think Bogo is a horrible complement to him, so our 2nd pair doesn't work either. Krug would work best with a defensive stalwart on the other side.

 

Kruuuuug.png

[WildCard]

According to these, Cam Fowler ain't everything we've been saying he is

 

http://ownthepuck.blogspot.com/

 

http://war-on-ice.com/playertable.html

 

In fact, Goligoski looks to be better

Edited April 12, 2016 by WildCard

[TrueBlueGED]

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie  26m26 minutes ago

Matthews, Laine and Puljujarvi. 1-2-3 on final NHL Central Scouting Bureau rankings for Euro skaters.

 

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie  26m26 minutes ago

Dubois, Tkachuk, Nylander, Chychrun, Juolevi are top 5 on NHL CSB. North American skaters list.

 

Not that this is especially new to this thread, but always good to see things confirmed by Central Scouting. If we stay at 8, we're getting one of these guys, if we drop to 9, we'll get one or Sergachev (in the ultimate test of the "Murray hates Russians" theory). I'll be happy with any of them.

According to these, Cam Fowler ain't everything we've been saying he is

 

http://ownthepuck.blogspot.com/

 

http://war-on-ice.com/playertable.html

 

In fact, Goligoski looks to be better

 

In Fowler's defense, he plays most of his minutes with the ghost of Kevin Bieksa, whereas Goligoski plays with John Klingberg. My guess is their numbers would flip if they swapped partners.

[Brawndo]

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 26m26 minutes ago

 

Matthews, Laine and Puljujarvi. 1-2-3 on final NHL Central Scouting Bureau rankings for Euro skaters.

 

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 26m26 minutes ago

 

Dubois, Tkachuk, Nylander, Chychrun, Juolevi are top 5 on NHL CSB. North American skaters list.

 

Not that this is especially new to this thread, but always good to see things confirmed by Central Scouting. If we stay at 8, we're getting one of these guys, if we drop to 9, we'll get one or Sergachev (in the ultimate test of the "Murray hates Russians" theory). I'll be happy with any of them.

.

Maybe a moot point if one of the teams Bob McKenzie is talking to drafting in front of us

 

Some teams I've talked to believe Sergachev either challenging, or made the case, to be top defenceman in the draft. BTW, Jake Bean is 15th.

[Derrico]

 

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie  26m26 minutes ago

Matthews, Laine and Puljujarvi. 1-2-3 on final NHL Central Scouting Bureau rankings for Euro skaters.

 

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie  26m26 minutes ago

Dubois, Tkachuk, Nylander, Chychrun, Juolevi are top 5 on NHL CSB. North American skaters list.

 

Not that this is especially new to this thread, but always good to see things confirmed by Central Scouting. If we stay at 8, we're getting one of these guys, if we drop to 9, we'll get one or Sergachev (in the ultimate test of the "Murray hates Russians" theory). I'll be happy with any of them.

 

In Fowler's defense, he plays most of his minutes with the ghost of Kevin Bieksa, whereas Goligoski plays with John Klingberg. My guess is their numbers would flip if they swapped partners.

 

I will be shocked I (ok maybe just very surprised) if Murray takes Sergachev. 

[Crusader1969]

I just don't think the risk/reward is worth giving up the 8th overall draft pick in a good draft (at least at the top) for a guy with 2 years left before UFA status thats were you lose the guarantee regarding Fowler.

 

Its nothing against Fowler, he would be a fine addition to this team. is there another way to acquire him?

 

Maybe Anaheim who is a cup contender would rather a lower cost DMan who can play for them immediately.

 

Would you give up Guhle for Fowler? I'm guessing most would.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Crusader1969

[pi2000]

I just don't think the risk/reward is worth giving up the 8th overall draft pick in a good draft (at least at the top) for a guy with 2 years left before UFA status thats were you lose the guarantee regarding Fowler.

 

Its nothing against Fowler, he would be a fine addition to this team. is there another way to acquire him?

 

Maybe Anaheim who is a cup contender would rather a lower cost DMan who can play for them immediately.

 

Would you give up Guhle for Fowler? I'm guessing most would.

 

yes

 

although I'd prefer Vatanen

[TrueBlueGED]

I just don't think the risk/reward is worth giving up the 8th overall draft pick in a good draft (at least at the top) for a guy with 2 years left before UFA status thats were you lose the guarantee regarding Fowler.

 

Its nothing against Fowler, he would be a fine addition to this team. is there another way to acquire him?

 

Maybe Anaheim who is a cup contender would rather a lower cost DMan who can play for them immediately.

 

Would you give up Guhle for Fowler? I'm guessing most would.

 

Absolutely. Instantly. And without a single thought. And Bob Murray wouldn't be able to stop laughing if that deal were proposed to him.

 

Elsewhere I said Ullmark is rapidly becoming the most overrated player in the system...well, he'll have to climb Mount Everest to reach Guhle levels of overrated. 

[Randall Flagg]

Absolutely. Instantly. And without a single thought. And Bob Murray wouldn't be able to stop laughing if that deal were proposed to him.

 

Elsewhere I said Ullmark is rapidly becoming the most overrated player in the system...well, he'll have to climb Mount Everest to reach Guhle levels of overrated.

Who is saying anything about Guhle? Is this a Twitter thing?

[TrueBlueGED]

Who is saying anything about Guhle? Is this a Twitter thing?

 

I thought Crusader was alluding to Anaheim preferring Guhle for Fowler to #8-Fowler because Guhle can step right in. I don't think Guhle can play in our top-4, let alone the top-4 of a Cup contender.

Edited April 12, 2016 by TrueBlueGED

[pi2000]

I thought Crusader was alluding to Anaheim preferring Guhle for Fowler to #8-Fowler because Guhle can step right in. I don't think Guhle can play in our top-4, let alone the top-4 of a Cup contender.

 

I don't think Crusader was insinuating that all it would take to land Fowler would be Guhle.   He would of course be part of some package going back the other way, combination of picks, Guhle and a roster player like Gorges or Franson perhaps... .maybe even Moulson with BUF retaining some salary.   

[TrueBlueGED]

I don't think Crusader was insinuating that all it would take to land Fowler would be Guhle.   He would of course be part of some package going back the other way, combination of picks, Guhle and a roster player like Gorges or Franson perhaps... .maybe even Moulson with BUF retaining some salary.   

 

If Guhle is the principle component of a trade for Fowler that involves us also dumping bad contracts on them, I will buy all Sabrespacers drinks on draft night at a local establishment.

[Randall Flagg]

I getcha now true :P I think an add to Guhle would be something on the order of, well, 8th overall?

[Crusader1969]

I think its interesting that Chychrun is still rated above Juolevi and Sergi.

Mckenzie tweeted again today that many teams have told him that Sergachev is the top rated Dman in 2016.

 

Someone the other day asked if Logan Brown could be available for the Sabres in the 2nd round. Now looks like top 10 is a possibility and ahead of centers Keller and McLeod.

 

Read somewhere that CSS puts a lot of emphasis on size - so that could help explain both points above.

 

Tappara (Laine) defeated Karpat (Puljujarvi) in game 7 today. They move onto the finals vs Helsinki. I believe the both Laine and Puljujarvi will be on the Finns World Cup team. 

[Crusader1969]

I getcha now true :P I think an add to Guhle would be something on the order of, well, 8th overall?

 

 

you guys are starting to mix up the Fantasy Trade Speculation page with the Draft page! lol