So how much of this is on Ted Nolan?

[Drunkard]

 

Like someone else pointed out, we have two more points in the standings now, than we did at this point last year.

 

Not sure what that means.

 

It means we started out horrifically bad last year. So bad that even though Darcy sold Pegula on the tank that he had to fire Darcy and Rolston because it worse than they even imagined and the team was getting boo'd out of the arena every night.

 

Edit: As JJFIVEOH's post shows we are worse than last year with Nolan but better than last year with Rolston, just not by much. Losing Miller and Ehrhoff has definitely hurt the team big time.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Drunkard

[WildCard]

Bologna

+1

9/20 (.45) Rolston

33/39 (.846) Nolan before Miller/Ott trade

10/23 (.434) Nolan after Miller/Ott trade

10/19 (.526) This year

 

Games/Points (average per game)

 

Seems Nolan is getting more points per game out of this years team. That's with a bunch of new players, some not here from last year. But, this year he's also got more "stable" goaltending. I say give him another 20 games to see if they start heading in the right direction. Remember, he was brought in to lead and teach the young guys. Looking at the stats, and judging by the play of Zadarov, Zemgus and Risto........... so far he's doing his job. If the veterans can't get headed in the right direction, maybe Murray needs to take some responsibility. Some of the worst players on this team for this year were Murray signings. Benoit, Meszaros, Gionta.

 

Not saying Nolan doesn't deserve criticism, but this is hardly just his problem.

Great post.

Baloney that losing those two players made that much difference in the fortune of the Sabres this year.

See JJFIVEOH's post above. They were a terrible team before they left, and they still are now, just worse. Miller's play was the only reason we were close in any game last season. Ehrhoff played easily the most minutes on the team, and in every crucial situation possible: pp, pk, against opponent's top lines. Losing him means everyone on the depth chart has much bigger roles, most of which they can't fill as well as Ehrhoff did.

 

Combine Miller leaving with Ehrhoff/mailing it in in March and you have the team you have now.

 

Like someone else pointed out, we have two more points in the standings now, than we did at this point last year.

 

Not sure what that means.

Difference is they started winning a bit more in the winter; going 9-10-6 in December and January. No way can I see this team pulling that off again.

[calti]

none of this is on ted Nolan. he is a winner. lets get him some real players

[Hoss]

That's a matter of opinion.. I say they have enough talent to be a better team and it is the coaching and system that are holding them back,

 

They should be better. But their current state is not 100& on the coaches... A large portion of it is on people that are no longer with the organization, another portion is with the coaches and then some with the players, owner and GM. Blame is all over.

 

How much would I blame on Nolan? If I HAD to put a percentage on it then it'd be somewhere around 30%.

[3putt]

Some of it has to be on Nolan and the coaching staff. But a large portion of the blame has to be leveled at the players. I also think Murray is saying what he has to to make it look like the Sabres are trying to win. I think Murray architected this team very carefully so that it would not be better than last year. The lack of effort is what has surprised me so far. Lack of effort is mostly on the players. I think the team is right where he wants it to be. We'll see what happens when trades start. If Murray trades for players that can help now or if he trades for future players and draft picks that will pretty much give a clue as to what his plan was.

What do you mean by help now? the trades most likely won't begin until teams either suffer injuries or begin to feel like they are making a playoff charge. Barring divine intervention we will be mathematically eliminated by xmas. The teams who make trades, seldom if ever take someone off the roster who is a contributor or part of their future for a rental, thus you end up with picks or prospects who are currently not as good as the asset going out but has upside down the road to be as good or better. The only thing the trades if any will tell us is who is in the plans for the future and who is not.

[3putt]

I am not a Nolan fan but I do acknowledge that he is a great motivator. What I don't get is what the OP means by "this"? The talent to the naked eye coming into camp wasn't playoff caliber. That it has underachieved is somewhat irrelevant. The year is about buying time for the prospects on the farm to bake while developing those on the roster. If we get a surprise turnaround from Stewart, Hodson or Stafford, bonus. The kids are doing well. Neuvirth has been a pleasant surprise. Moulson and Ennis will continue towards their mean. We will get a few like last night and a few more like against the Pens. The ufa's will be moved at the deadline or before and the last vestiges of the DR era will be cut away. That is what is necessary in a rebuild. That we may be in a position to acquire a generational talent is a bonus.

[darksabre]

 

 

I think Neuvirth is a very good goaltender and has a bright future ahead of him, but it should be noted, in his best season as a professional (2010-11), Irbe was also his goaltender coach in Washington.

 

Intriguing sub plot isn't it? Irbe is one of Nolan's guys so you have to figure any goaltending success is on Nolan even if the rest of the team is average. Maybe he even knows his own weakness: that he likes to lean on and has always been able lean on goalies.

[WildCard]

Did some research:

Stats through 19 games played

 

2013-2014 Sabres:

GA/G______GF/G ____SA/G______SF/G______Save %___________Leader ion ATOI

3.2__________1.7 ____36.7______ 25_________ Miler--->.906______Ehroff----->23.00 minutes/game, lead all of two. Hurt one game

Enroth--->.918

 

 

 

2014-2015 Sabres:

GA/G______GF/G______SA/G______SF/G______Save %__________Leader ion ATOI

3.53______ 1.47______ 36.9______23.6______Neuvirth----.918____Myers---->24.48 minutes/game.

 

pp%______pk%

7.0______78.4

 

 

I forgot to total up pp/pk% for last year's team. Looking for an answer now

Edited November 17, 2014 by WildCard

[Eleven]

none.

 

I agree. But I also think we're going to find out very quickly why it's not a good idea to fire a good coach when it's the team that's the problem.

[Two or less]

none of this is on ted Nolan. he is a winner. lets get him some real players

 

When the joke ends, and we're ready to start to become winners, I don't think Nolan will be here. Nothing against Nolan either. I just think Murray will want his own guy to lead the team when he's ready to turn the corner.

[sicknfla]

This isn't on Nolan. For GMTM or upper management to suggest otherwise is another fine example of the buffoons that run this team. I by no means am a big Nolan fan but you can't pin this on him.

[nucci]

none of this is on ted Nolan. he is a winner. lets get him some real players

What has he won?

[X. Benedict]

What has he won?

He has won some respect for Latvia.

[nfreeman]

Interesting quotes by Tim Murray from Harrington's article in the BN this morning.

 

http://www.buffalone...murray-20141116

 

“I believe we’re better than we were last year and we haven’t played better,” he said. “Is it too many new guys? Are we playing our worst hockey of the year now versus going forward? I don’t know the answer. We’ll see.”

As for Ted Nolan & Co, Murray was hardly effusive in praise of the job being done. He said he gave Nolan “carte blanche” to hire assistants last summer after initially offering some suggestions. Then Murray got to the heart of the matter.

“Have they got the most out of these players? I don’t think they have. Do they think they have? I don’t believe that either. I don’t go to Teddy every day and say, ‘You’re OK.’ I don’t steer clear, but I’m not micromanaging him or his staff. He got the staff he wanted, and I’m going to let them do their jobs. At the end of the day, we’ll see what kind of development there is.”

 

I believe on paper, the team should be better than last year too.

Hodgson, Foligno, Gionta, Stewart, Meszaros, Benoit and Moulson are all significantly worse that they have shown in the past. Girgensons and maybe Myers are the only ones showing improvement.

How much of that rests on the coach?

 

Well, the bolded part certainly indicates that TM thinks a reasonable part of it is on the coach.

 

After reading that, I'm close to expecting Nolan to get canned after the season.

 

It will be interesting to see how long it takes to shift the culture after this season is over. I doubt it will be as simple as flipping the switch.

 

Yes indeed.

 

The psychology of sports was on full display last night. Jeanneret coming back, the building alive, and your home rink mostly hostile... don't tell me it didn't fire them up. A coach can't just conjure that stuff up every night. You have to have players who can find their own reasons to play like their hair's on fire, and I don't think Nolan has many of them, especially under the toxic tent that is Buffalo Sabres hockey these days.

 

I disagree with the bolded. I think Murray put together a team that he thought would finish with between 60 and 70 points and be far more competitive than it has been. I think Nolan (and Gionta and Gorges) was supposed to make sure the players got that message.

 

I think the message has failed to sink in, largely because the overall perception of "suffering" and "Tank for McDavid" that Darcy and Ted Black created (with Pegula's blessing IMO) and the media and the fans have too fully embraced.

 

I think Nolan deserves to take some of the blame because he has not made the team play to its full potential.

But I think the blame rests mostly with Pegula for failing to send the message he expects his team to be better.

 

The McDavid-or-bust psychology is a crutch that the less-competitive players are finding very difficult to overcome.

9/20 (.45) Rolston

33/39 (.846) Nolan before Miller/Ott trade

10/23 (.434) Nolan after Miller/Ott trade

10/19 (.526) This year

 

Games/Points (average per game)

 

Seems Nolan is getting more points per game out of this years team. That's with a bunch of new players, some not here from last year. But, this year he's also got more "stable" goaltending. I say give him another 20 games to see if they start heading in the right direction. Remember, he was brought in to lead and teach the young guys. Looking at the stats, and judging by the play of Zadarov, Zemgus and Risto........... so far he's doing his job. If the veterans can't get headed in the right direction, maybe Murray needs to take some responsibility. Some of the worst players on this team for this year were Murray signings. Benoit, Meszaros, Gionta.

 

Not saying Nolan doesn't deserve criticism, but this is hardly just his problem.

 

Good stuff here boys.

[inkman]

none of this is on ted Nolan. he is a winner. lets get him some real players

Hey Ted's mom!

[Doohickie]

I'll say two things:

 

1. I think Nolan is doing precisely what GMTM expects of him. Make it look like they're trying, but not really trying. Whether that means they'll part ways at the end of the season remains to be seen.

 

2. An infusion of youth can be done with a steady improvement - look at Detroit, where wave after wave of youth has come up over the last 20 years and each season they are in a position to do damage in the playoffs (4 Cups in that period after a 42 year drought). However, the Sabres had an infusion of youth AND a major turnover of veterans, coupled with a coach that isn't a big system guy. If Nolan is to be successful he needs to do it with motivation and chemistry. When they're getting beat as regularly as they have been this year (and yes, big part of that is on Nolan), it's hard to motivate. TN needs to find the chemistry that will get this team functioning, essentially establishing a system organically (rather than being imposed by the coach).

 

The Toronto game was the first glimmer of that. There was enough of a system in place that the talented players could talent and the grinding players could grind, all to their mutual benefit. There was a lot of rotation between forwards and defense (look at Myers's goal when he poked it in from the crease) and also look at Deslaurier's play. He stood out to me as covering the backside when the D jumped up on the rush. You can have a system and tell the guys what to do, but if Myers is tentative and Deslauriers doesn't know if he's going to rush or not, they get out of sync and either the both go in and maybe give up a two-on-one the other way, or both hang back and an offensive chance never materializes.

 

Chemistry isn't just whether or not you like your linemates, it's about knowing where they will be and when without having to think about it too much. So if you're Bryan Flynn on the PK and you know Girgs is going to follow you on the rush, you don't just flip a shot at the net from the corner at an impossible angle, you slip it into the slot with the expectation that Z will be there at the right time.

 

The Toronto game was the first game where the Sabres showed some chemistry, and did so for most of the game.

 

Yes there are still several disappointing, underperforming players, but hey, I think the goal of this season is two-fold: Build a system, and do it slowly enough that the Sabres land McEichel.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Neuvirths Glove

[Eleven]

 

I disagree with the bolded. I think Murray put together a team that he thought would finish with between 60 and 70 points and be far more competitive than it has been. I think Nolan (and Gionta and Gorges) was supposed to make sure the players got that message.

 

I think the message has failed to sink in, largely because the overall perception of "suffering" and "Tank for McDavid" that Darcy and Ted Black created (with Pegula's blessing IMO) and the media and the fans have too fully embraced.

 

I think Nolan deserves to take some of the blame because he has not made the team play to its full potential.

But I think the blame rests mostly with Pegula for failing to send the message he expects his team to be better.

 

The McDavid-or-bust psychology is a crutch that the less-competitive players are finding very difficult to overcome.

 

I think you're right, and I would add Moulson in with Gionta and Gorges.

[LastPommerFan]

I think the team being low on talent and experience is on the GM and is intentional. I think the team performing below even their low talent level has to be put on the coach and captain. And I don't think that part is intentional.

 

Murray's comments about Nolan choosing his own staff sound an awful lot like, "I gave Teddy ample rope. I made some suggestions, but ultimately he pick the exact rope he wanted. We'll see what he does with it."

Edited November 17, 2014 by Glass Case Of Emotion

[Doohickie]

Murray's comments about Nolan choosing his own staff sound an awful lot like, "I gave Teddy ample rope. I made some suggestions, but ultimately he pick the exact rope he wanted. We'll see what he does with it."

 

Totally agree. If, at the end of the season, TN looks like the right guy for the job, GMTM will keep him on. However, if by the end of the season the tire fire continues, GMTM is already laying the groundwork for a change. Nolan knew what he was getting into and I think he's been holding the team back some Bu. We'll see what the last 10 games look like. If hey have, say, a .700 record or better I bet Nolan stays on. If he's below .500 on those last ten, he's gone. Somewhere in between? Meh. Who knows? It may depend on who the Sabres land in the draft.

[Drunkard]

 

 

Totally agree. If, at the end of the season, TN looks like the right guy for the job, GMTM will keep him on. However, if by the end of the season the tire fire continues, GMTM is already laying the groundwork for a change. Nolan knew what he was getting into and I think he's been holding the team back some Bu. We'll see what the last 10 games look like. If hey have, say, a .700 record or better I bet Nolan stays on. If he's below .500 on those last ten, he's gone. Somewhere in between? Meh. Who knows? It may depend on who the Sabres land in the draft.

 

I'm not so sure about that, especially since we don't know what kind of moves are happening at the trade deadline. Nolan seemed to turn the team around last year when he first came aboard but the team crumbled down the stretch after losing Miller, Ott, Moulson, McCormick, and having Ehrhoff basically pack it in. I know this team stinks and all but if there's another mass exodus of veterans at the deadline and we bring up a bunch of kids and there's no team chemistry it's possibly the end of the season is horrible once again no matter what Nolan tries to do to steady the ship, even if he has the team looking more competitive before the deadline.

[Doohickie]

Let's see if the Sabres are buyers or sellers at the deadline. From the standpoint of playoffs, you would expect them to be sellers, but if they're trying to build for next year they may hang onto the veterans they have (except for the ones that aren't helping, like Meszaros).

[Sabres Fan in NS]

ROSTER!!

 

Hi 11.

 

Toe Blake and Scotty Bowman working together would have about the same amount of wins, as Nolan, with this group of players.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Sabres Fan In NS

[pi2000]

Buffalo's D-zone coverage is the worst in the NHL. That's a coaching issue.

[LastPommerFan]

ROSTER!!

 

Hi 11.

 

Toe Blake and Scotty Bowman working together would have about the same amount of wins, as Nolan, with this group of players.

 

So you are of the opinion that the team is not underperforming?

[tom webster]

I think the team being low on talent and experience is on the GM and is intentional. I think the team performing below even their low talent level has to be put on the coach and captain. And I don't think that part is intentional.

 

Murray's comments about Nolan choosing his own staff sound an awful lot like, "I gave Teddy ample rope. I made some suggestions, but ultimately he pick the exact rope he wanted. We'll see what he does with it."

 

I couldn't have said it better but then I am as big of anti TN as anyone here.

I will be very surprised if he is behind the bench next year.