Ted Nolan "I learned last week I can't say what/how I feel."

[PASabreFan]

X., shouldn't the coach be able to rip his team in the press? Seems like an age-old part of the handbook. I don't know who taught him his lesson, but, yeah, I think it's wrong if it came from "upstairs" in the front office. As someone suggested, though, maybe the league office didn't like it.

 

And what's with Ted reporting to Tim after every game? Is that commonplace? Tim also played a pretty big hand in the selection of assistant coaches, no? Do they also frisk Teddy as he leaves the building to make sure he's not pilfering white-out and staples?

Edited October 20, 2014 by PASabreFan

[X. Benedict]

X., shouldn't the coach be able to rip his team in the press? Seems like an age-old part of the handbook. I don't know who taught him his lesson, but, yeah, I think it's wrong if it came from "upstairs" in the front office. As someone suggested, though, maybe the league office didn't like it.

 

And what's with Ted reporting to Tim after every game? Is that commonplace? Tim also played a pretty big hand in the selection of assistant coaches, no? Do they also frisk Teddy as he leaves the building to make sure he's not pilfering white-out and staples?

 

I don't really care what coaches say to the press, but that's just me. . (really - I don't much care, unless they are informative as to injuries, interesting or funny, or in the playoffs, which is a different animal altogether) What coaches do in-game with line-changes, player selections, pairings, ice time, match-ups and systems say all I really want to know about how I view the game.

 

I don't know why the league office would care. I can't think of a reason they would.

 

Comments become an issue if TSN, Hockey News, Sportsnet, Fan 590, Toronto papers, and such pick up ill-advised comments, that's when the entire hockey community cares.

 

If I'm Tim Murray, I'd probably be a little pissed at Nolan, because players he may be trying to trade for may be less likely to come if they are embarrassed to join a Pee Wee organization where only 2 forwards try. But, how would I know? I just think Murray would be silly not to mention that.

 

If I had to guess, Tim Murray played NO hand in letting Nolan pick his staff.

Those are Ted's guys from Ted's history. Trottier and Flynn from the Island, and Coolen and Irbe from the Latvian team.

I can't think of any history any of them had with Murray.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

FWIW - I thought Lindy was a good coach all categories, by the end I was ready to see him go. But why are we talking about Lindy at all?

These aren't his players, and this isn't his team.

 

Many guys here are fond of remembering who throws who under the bus.

 

As for Nolan calling the team Pee Wee....and saying only 2 out of his 12 forwards are trying, that had legs well beyond Buffalo when it hit the national hockey media, and somehow Nolan has been wronged? By who?

 

It seems to me the most obvious thing to suspect is that Murray told Nolan that if he is upset, take a 5 minutes breather before you go out to meet the press gaggle so you don't say things everyone will regret. The press will wait for you.

 

Note. Yes, this may take longer than planned. I'm not optimistic about next year either.

 

I'm not saying Nolan has been wronged. I am saying it was uncharacteristic to come on so strong in public so soon. That means there is frustration to begin with. The comment that led me to start the thread was to say....something ain't right here. Nolan isn't getting it done and he's already getting desperate. I'm sure he doesn't give 2 craps what Sportsfan690 says or PuckMamma.....someone from the inside had to tell him to shush, and it obviously didn't sit well.

 

So what happens next game? Even in "learning his lesson", he still sends a signal to the world that something is not right by not coming out for his Presser to the point the media were all aflutter. He then also says he still hates his team by saying that he got the frustration out in the back in an extended talk with Murray.

 

He's keeping on the theme that his team is a bunch of Pee-Wees. He's said it 3 different ways in 3 straight home games now. That's part of his charm. If you are surrounded by a bunch of kids, or guys just in it for the money, or TwitterGoober, ADHD, "it's tinfoil" fans.....then it doesn't matter. The kids are too dumb and the old guys too rich to care what he is doing. That leaves it to Weber, Georges, Mitchell and McCormick to try and translate to the room. When that's the "core" of your team that knows how to play the game Teddy's way....you are swimming upstream.

 

And I don't mean to pick on you about Ruff. 1999 Lindy was a little higher in the 5 categories in my opinion. I actually think someone like Blysma is more of an all-around guy.

[tom webster]

First, let me say I stand by the "tinfoil hat comment" although I didn't mean it as quite the insult that it seems to be taken as. I'm pretty sure at least GODD knows how much I respect his insight even when we disagree.

 

Second, I see this mostly as a Ted Nolan issue. I admit, I've never been a fan. I remember most of his first tenure pretty much as this with two major differences. He had Hasek, and a WWF brigade that made people forget the awful hockey they just witnessed.

 

On top of that, the league has evolved. Whether you believe in analytics or not, a premium is now placed on puck possession and Teddy and his staff seem to have no answer.

 

As I stated before, I see no reason anyone other then players objected to what Nolan said. HIs remarks and frustration is a perfect defense for those who question the team's motives. Of course, nothing is ever black and white and there are probably a lot of different things going on.

[K-9]

First, let me say I stand by the "tinfoil hat comment" although I didn't mean it as quite the insult that it seems to be taken as. I'm pretty sure at least GODD knows how much I respect his insight even when we disagree.

 

Second, I see this mostly as a Ted Nolan issue. I admit, I've never been a fan. I remember most of his first tenure pretty much as this with two major differences. He had Hasek, and a WWF brigade that made people forget the awful hockey they just witnessed.

 

On top of that, the league has evolved. Whether you believe in analytics or not, a premium is now placed on puck possession and Teddy and his staff seem to have no answer.

 

As I stated before, I see no reason anyone other then players objected to what Nolan said. HIs remarks and frustration is a perfect defense for those who question the team's motives. Of course, nothing is ever black and white and there are probably a lot of different things going on.

 

Nutshell.

 

Might be just as simple as reailzing Ted Nolan may be out of his depth at the moment. No wonder he's frustrated.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[X. Benedict]

Meditation on the Id of Ted Nolan:

 

Part of me would like to believe that Ted Nolan's approach to coaching is a way to walk through the modern world. Don't over-analyze, just do. Don't get crippled by imposed order, just react. Don't think too much, play in the moment. In terms of a philosophy, Ted Nolan is pure ID. Be instinctive, as life is uncoordinated thrust.

 

But what I really suspect is that any success that Nolan may have had, or has had up until now, has come from this approach, but it also contains the seeds of his own destruction.

[SwampD]

Meditation on the Id of Ted Nolan:

 

Part of me would like to believe that Ted Nolan's approach to coaching is a way to walk through the modern world. Don't over-analyze, just do. Don't get crippled by imposed order, just react. Don't think too much, play in the moment. In terms of a philosophy, Ted Nolan is pure ID. Be instinctive, as life is uncoordinated thrust.

 

But what I really suspect is that any success that Nolan may have had, or has had up until now, has come from this approach, but it also contains the seeds of his own destruction.

Serious question. I know we have heard over and over that Ted has no system or that his system is just go go go and rah rah rah, and I've even read it on the internet so it must be true, but, do we know if it actually is? I mean, what do they do at practice, wind sprints and group hugs?

 

I would think that they have to run plays and practice the PP. Isn't that a system?

[PASabreFan]

Meditation on the Id of Ted Nolan:

 

Part of me would like to believe that Ted Nolan's approach to coaching is a way to walk through the modern world. Don't over-analyze, just do. Don't get crippled by imposed order, just react. Don't think too much, play in the moment. In terms of a philosophy, Ted Nolan is pure ID. Be instinctive, as life is uncoordinated thrust.

 

But what I really suspect is that any success that Nolan may have had, or has had up until now, has come from this approach, but it also contains the seeds of his own destruction.

 

Meh. He was coach of the year in Buffalo and got fired. He got the woebegone Islanders into the playoffs and got fired as season later over "philosophical differences" with Snow. Ted's not perfect, but I don't think it's a matter of people eventually finding out he can't coach hockey.

 

Serious question. I know we have heard over and over that Ted has no system or that his system is just go go go and rah rah rah, and I've even read it on the internet so it must be true, but, do we know if it actually is? I mean, what do they do at practice, wind sprints and group hugs?

 

I would think that they have to run plays and practice the PP. Isn't that a system?

 

The narrative is growing legs. This will not be the last time you question it. Good luck.

[X. Benedict]

 

Serious question. I know we have heard over and over that Ted has no system or that his system is just go go go and rah rah rah, and I've even read it on the internet so it must be true, but, do we know if it actually is? I mean, what do they do at practice, wind sprints and group hugs?

 

I would think that they have to run plays and practice the PP. Isn't that a system?

Simply positional in terms of approach.

 

Not sure what practice looks like.

[Kristian]

I sincerely doubt anyone could win with this roster.

 

Yeah, being bad isn't new to this team, but like it or not - They had Miller in net, and while he might never win a cup, he's still a damn sight better than the two guys we're rotating at the moment.

[SwampD]

Simply positional in terms of approach.

 

Not sure what practice looks like.

Isn't that what a system is?

[nucci]

X., shouldn't the coach be able to rip his team in the press? Seems like an age-old part of the handbook. I don't know who taught him his lesson, but, yeah, I think it's wrong if it came from "upstairs" in the front office. As someone suggested, though, maybe the league office didn't like it.

 

And what's with Ted reporting to Tim after every game? Is that commonplace? Tim also played a pretty big hand in the selection of assistant coaches, no? Do they also frisk Teddy as he leaves the building to make sure he's not pilfering white-out and staples?

No, he can rip them in the dressing room but not to the press. If my coach pulls me aside and says I suck and played horribly that's fine...if he goes to the reporters and says Nucci blows...I may have a problem with him.

Edited October 21, 2014 by nucci

[PASabreFan]

Isn't that what a system is?

 

Strategy vs. tactics? I'm sure Ted doesn't coach by saying, "Go out there and freestyle, do what feels right." There has to be a overall philosophy. But maybe he just doesn't believe in the Xs and Os. I've never believed hockey could be drawn up on a whiteboard. I always laughed at Lindy with 13 seconds to go and the faceoff in the offensive zone, down by one, furiously scribbling away. Hockey is throwing your loaded paint brush into a fan in front of a canvas, not paint by numbers.

[That Aud Smell]

But maybe he just doesn't believe in the Xs and Os. I've never believed hockey could be drawn up on a whiteboard. I always laughed at Lindy with 13 seconds to go and the faceoff in the offensive zone, down by one, furiously scribbling away. Hockey is throwing your loaded paint brush into a fan in front of a canvas, not paint by numbers.

 

Not even rah-rah-sis-boom-bah-c'mon-boys-once-more-into-the-breach-Varsity-North-let's-circle-trust-hug-it-out Ted Nolan doesn't go that far. He said there was science to it -- just that it wasn't rocket science.

 

There is plenty that's random in hockey. It is the most fluid of the "major" team sports in North America (and that's obviously excluding soccer (which is perhaps far more fluid)). Even so, there is lots of room for the development of tactics, film work, match-ups, game-planning, and the like. Like you, I think Ted goes pretty light on that sort of stuff.

[X. Benedict]

 

Isn't that what a system is?

No.

 

 

 

Strategy vs. tactics? I'm sure Ted doesn't coach by saying, "Go out there and freestyle, do what feels right." There has to be a overall philosophy. But maybe he just doesn't believe in the Xs and Os. I've never believed hockey could be drawn up on a whiteboard. I always laughed at Lindy with 13 seconds to go and the faceoff in the offensive zone, down by one, furiously scribbling away. Hockey is throwing your loaded paint brush into a fan in front of a canvas, not paint by numbers.

 

Teddy might be your perfect coach.

[Eleven]

Strategy vs. tactics? I'm sure Ted doesn't coach by saying, "Go out there and freestyle, do what feels right." There has to be a overall philosophy. But maybe he just doesn't believe in the Xs and Os. I've never believed hockey could be drawn up on a whiteboard. I always laughed at Lindy with 13 seconds to go and the faceoff in the offensive zone, down by one, furiously scribbling away. Hockey is throwing your loaded paint brush into a fan in front of a canvas, not paint by numbers.

 

And then Drury pops it into the net, just as Lindy drew it up.

 

I can't tell what Nolan's system is, or whether he has one, but when this team is talented again, it's going to need one.

[SwampD]

No.

 

 

 

Explain.

 

Because if you are told to be here when they are there or there when they are here, but if this happens you should be here so you can get the puck to him while he is breaking out over there, and you explain that for different situations all over the ice, then that's a system.

Strategy vs. tactics? I'm sure Ted doesn't coach by saying, "Go out there and freestyle, do what feels right." There has to be a overall philosophy. But maybe he just doesn't believe in the Xs and Os. I've never believed hockey could be drawn up on a whiteboard. I always laughed at Lindy with 13 seconds to go and the faceoff in the offensive zone, down by one, furiously scribbling away. Hockey is throwing your loaded paint brush into a fan in front of a canvas, not paint by numbers.

It's more like a toolbox full of whatever they may need given the situation. And I actually have to disagree here with the faceoff thing. I think it the one time when you actually can draw up a play. If your guy has consistently been winning draws a certain way all game, you can tell someone to box out this guy and send that guy around thisawy with the puck ........ I've done it (at the most basic level of hockey) so I assume it works at that level.

[thewookie1]

I think one of the problems is we didn't get the Ted Nolan of 97' we all hoped for, the guy who looked all fired up like Patrick Roy does for Colorado. Instead we got a guy whom is trying to over compensate for his past by being against fighters and showing little emotion on the bench. Much like this team does, he seems more sedated than we expected; and his style seems to be sedated as well. Players are walking through walls, not running through them so to speak. If the Sabres played like they did against Chicago in the 2nd period all 60 mins, we'd be entertained and the Sabres may actually look decent. (They were finishing their checks, pressuring Chicago, and playing hard shift to shift) They won't be a good team due to their lack of possession skills but at least they need to make the other team pa to have theirs.

 

I think TN will get pass this year and next year he'll begin his judgment period.

[PASabreFan]

And then Drury pops it into the net, just as Lindy drew it up.

 

I can't tell what Nolan's system is, or whether he has one, but when this team is talented again, it's going to need one.

 

Drusie, take the draw to the sideboards. Zoobsie, you go stagger into the corner and take down two Rangers (but don't get a penalty). Drusie, grab the puck, pass it out front, then go around the other side of the net and wait for the sharp angle rebound off Lundqvist. Oh yeah, don't forget to shoot it between Van's legs and score.

[LGR4GM]

Chris Drury was a special player, I think we can all agree on that. He had the ability to work within an system a coach had and make that system work to his benefit. Hall of fame guy, probably not, but a guy who was very hard working and smart on the ice.

[nfreeman]

Drusie, take the draw to the sideboards. Zoobsie, you go stagger into the corner and take down two Rangers (but don't get a penalty). Drusie, grab the puck, pass it out front, then go around the other side of the net and wait for the sharp angle rebound off Lundqvist. Oh yeah, don't forget to shoot it between Van's legs and score.

 

BTW: do you still think Lindy was holding Vanek back?

[X. Benedict]

 

Explain.

 

Because if you are told to be here when they are there or there when they are here, but if this happens you should be here so you can get the puck to him while he is breaking out over there, and you explain that for different situations all over the ice, then that's a system.

e it (at the most basic level of hockey) so I assume it works at that level.

 

Even in pick up games people tend to play rudimentarily positionally. Except for the league cherry picker.

 

I guess we mean different things.

 

Let's start with the neutral zone. There doesn't appear to be any effort to limit entries, steer the puck to one side, force a dump in, trap, or contest movement that I've noticed as far as I've seen so far. There just isn't anything in place that I've noticed. There is some puck pursuit positionally, but nothing in place as a team concept to limit the puck carriers options other than pick a man and go get him.

 

 

 

 

 

BTW: do you still think Lindy was holding Vanek back?

 

The best thing about not having Lindy, Miller, and Darcy here are less Lindy, Miller, and Darcy discussions. Just my opinion.

 

[That Aud Smell]

Let's start with the neutral zone. There doesn't appear to be any effort to limit entries, steer the puck to one side, force a dump in, trap, or contest movement that I've noticed as far as I've seen so far. There just isn't anything in place that I've noticed. There is some puck pursuit positionally, but nothing in place as a team concept to limit the puck carriers options other than pick a man and go get him.

 

this gives language to something i've (well, we've) been seeing, but that i have not been able to isolate or articulate.

 

honestly. it's no wonder the team surrenders so many shots.

Edited October 21, 2014 by That Aud Smell

[SwampD]

Even in pick up games people tend to play rudimentarily positionally. Except for the league cherry picker.

 

I guess we mean different things.

 

Let's start with the neutral zone. There doesn't appear to be any effort to limit entries, steer the puck to one side, force a dump in, trap, or contest movement that I've noticed as far as I've seen so far. There just isn't anything in place that I've noticed. There is some puck pursuit positionally, but nothing in place as a team concept to limit the puck carriers options other than pick a man and go get him.

 

 

I kinda figured that's what you meant. I guess I was just saying that that in and of itself is a system. Maybe not a complex one or even good one, but it's a system.

 

So, I guess my initial question still stands. Do we know for sure that his system is this type or could it be that he actually does have a system that is more complex and he just doesn't have any players good enough to make it show any results?

[qwksndmonster]

I kinda figured that's what you meant. I guess I was just saying that that in and of itself is a system. Maybe not a complex one or even good one, but it's a system.

 

So, I guess my initial question still stands. Do we know for sure that his system is this type or could it be that he actually does have a system that is more complex and he just doesn't have any players good enough to make it show any results?

It seems to me that Teddy thinks the best way to compete with a talent depletee deprived roster is to play the simplest game possible. You could be right.

Edited October 21, 2014 by qwksndmonster