Patty16 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Yeah, my head almost exploded when I heard this much was given up. Once I came off the ledge, I could see what Murray is doing (by overhauling the style of play), but just don't agree with how he is going about it. I get aggravated when I hear that Kane is a "legit 1st liner", "an elite player", "a 30 goal scorer", etc (which have all been said either here or other comment sections) as if these are all givens that should taken at face value. Outside of his impressive 30 goal campaign 3 years ago, Kane is none of that currently. "30 goal scorer" implies he's been rattling off 30 goals season after season, when its much more like 15-19 goals. In addition, he wasn't even a first liner on his own team. And we aren't talking about the Blackhawks here, its the freakin Jets. And a guy who scores 30 once is elite?!!!! Wow, how times have changed. Of course this could all change in Buffalo, and I hope it does, I just don't see enough evidence in suggesting that it will. Kane certainly has all the tools to live up to his potential, but I have seen countless of guys come through with the same hype and skill set only to disappoint. I also don't see the logic in pointing out that we gave up only "potential" in acquiring a proven player, only to come back in the next sentence, and rave about Kane's potential. If nothing more, we gave up potential for a different kind of potential. Although I see Kane in very much the same vein as I saw Myers....a guy with an unbelievable tool set who lacks the "it" factor, and praying to God my eyes are just lying to me. To me, there is nothing exciting about this trade (maybe that will change a little when I see more of Bogosian, if he has a physical edge everyone is talking about), other than it shuffled the deck and drained us of a little organizational prospect depth as I see no "provens" or "givens". The real excitement for me comes draft lottery day. That is when the real game changer comes into focus, and even then, its more "potential". From EF : List of NHLers who also scored 30 goals when they were only 20 years old:::Alexander Ovechkin, Steven Stamkos, Ryan Smyth, Jaromir Jagr, Jonathan Toews, Evgeni Malkin, Anze Kopitar, Patrice Bergeron, Marian Gaborik. The dude is only 23, has accomplished what many players drafted at #1 and #2 overal havent, and you take umbrage with why people are excited? The guy has average 0.3G per game (which is roughly 25 goals a year/82 games) and thats with injury problems. He's also never really had a center to play with.... but yea people shouldnt be excited. He has elite level talent but is yet an elite player. I think you'll see the difference when he plays or if you have ever really watched him play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted February 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 The probabilty of trading for Niemi's rights before the deadline to keep him off the UFA market is effectively zero because the Sharks will want to ride him into the playoffs, correct? How about trading for his rights pre-July 1? Too risky? We technically sent a 4th round pick to NYI to do this with Ehrhoff (to replace the 4th that NYI had spent to acquire his rights to unsuccessfully do the same). According to LeBrun and others the Sharks are completely open to trading Niemi before the deadline. Talks have gone nowhere for an extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 From EF : List of NHLers who also scored 30 goals when they were only 20 years old:::Alexander Ovechkin, Steven Stamkos, Ryan Smyth, Jaromir Jagr, Jonathan Toews, Evgeni Malkin, Anze Kopitar, Patrice Bergeron, Marian Gaborik. That's an interesting list. They're all pretty much the same age except for Smyth and Jagr who were in their 20s during the 1950s. It really illustrates the shift in the league towards relying on an impact from their young players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 According to LeBrun and others the Sharks are completely open to trading Niemi before the deadline. Talks have gone nowhere for an extension. Perhaps, but I highly doubt the Sabres are going to make a move there. They are too close to the coveted Shart Trophy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Guys on multiyear deals can sign contracts on/after July 1 before they turn FA. The Avs would have to give a trading partner permission to talk to him AND he'd have to be willing to forego free agency. Even w/ a 'knock his socks off offer' does he seem the type to go for that? IMHO he wouldn't go for that, figuring the offer would still be there in July. He still has one year so his decision would be whether to play out last year or take the security of a multi year deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 According to LeBrun and others the Sharks are completely open to trading Niemi before the deadline. Talks have gone nowhere for an extension. Interesting. The Sharks are in the playoffs... would they ship Niemi with no strong replacement? Would they only trade to non-playoff teams that would have no chance of seeing them again this season? I guess you try to recoup your vanishing UFA assets, but it could cost them playoff wins. Perhaps, but I highly doubt the Sabres are going to make a move there. They are too close to the coveted Shart Trophy. I don't think the tank will influence Murray on long-term goalie issues. Although he did just make that move yesterday, it happened because everyone involved was a UFA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 He still has one year so his decision would be whether to play out last year or take the security of a multi year deal.Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Yeah, my head almost exploded when I heard this much was given up. Once I came off the ledge, I could see what Murray is doing (by overhauling the style of play), but just don't agree with how he is going about it. I get aggravated when I hear that Kane is a "legit 1st liner", "an elite player", "a 30 goal scorer", etc (which have all been said either here or other comment sections) as if these are all givens that should taken at face value. Outside of his impressive 30 goal campaign 3 years ago, Kane is none of that currently. "30 goal scorer" implies he's been rattling off 30 goals season after season, when its much more like 15-19 goals. In addition, he wasn't even a first liner on his own team. And we aren't talking about the Blackhawks here, its the freakin Jets. And a guy who scores 30 once is elite?!!!! Wow, how times have changed. Of course this could all change in Buffalo, and I hope it does, I just don't see enough evidence in suggesting that it will. Kane certainly has all the tools to live up to his potential, but I have seen countless of guys come through with the same hype and skill set only to disappoint. I also don't see the logic in pointing out that we gave up only "potential" in acquiring a proven player, only to come back in the next sentence, and rave about Kane's potential. If nothing more, we gave up potential for a different kind of potential. Although I see Kane in very much the same vein as I saw Myers....a guy with an unbelievable tool set who lacks the "it" factor, and praying to God my eyes are just lying to me. To me, there is nothing exciting about this trade (maybe that will change a little when I see more of Bogosian, if he has a physical edge everyone is talking about), other than it shuffled the deck and drained us of a little organizational prospect depth as I see no "provens" or "givens". The real excitement for me comes draft lottery day. That is when the real game changer comes into focus, and even then, its more "potential" Darcy we all know you wouldn't have made the deal. :beer: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted February 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Perhaps, but I highly doubt the Sabres are going to make a move there. They are too close to the coveted Shart Trophy. Agree completely. Just wanted to note that. He could be dealt elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted February 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Darren Dreger: -Jets have already received calls about Tyler Myers. He said it won't happen in-season, but there is potential for a deal in the offseason. -Jets were looking for depth forwards but now may look at a top six forward with the financial flexibility they got in the Kane deal. -Santorelli and Winnik are hot names right now. -Bruins has been scouting Toronto and interested in deals; interested in Cody Franson. -Toronto is going to undergo a major overhaul. Morgan Reilly seems to be the only untouchable. -Would be surprised if Kessel and Phaneuf are still Leafs come next season. -Las Vegas ticket drive going well. 2016-17 may be too aggressive of a date, but it's possible. Update expected during cup finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 To add to what Tank reported Dreger, on teams calling to ask Bruins about Malcolm Subban: "Well, teams looking for goaltending. He's having a very good year in the American Hockey League with Providence. But you can call all you want, the Bruins are not interested in trading Malcolm Subban UNLESS they get a very, very good young prospect or young player back in return. Again, this is a deal if Pete Chiarelli was going to seriously going to consider it, he'd consider it around draft time in the summer." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Interesting. Not sure who I'd want to give to Boston that I'd enjoy playing against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 To add to what Tank reported Dreger, on teams calling to ask Bruins about Malcolm Subban: "Well, teams looking for goaltending. He's having a very good year in the American Hockey League with Providence. But you can call all you want, the Bruins are not interested in trading Malcolm Subban UNLESS they get a very, very good young prospect or young player back in return. Again, this is a deal if Pete Chiarelli was going to seriously going to consider it, he'd consider it around draft time in the summer." I'd imagine they'd want to trade him at some point in the not too distant future given that Rask is young and locked up long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted February 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I'd imagine they'd want to trade him at some point in the not too distant future given that Rask is young and locked up long term. I don't follow this line of thinking. He's under control for a good amount of time at an affordable number. If he can excel as your backup then his value stays strong and helps your team if Rask struggles/gets hurt/needs rest. Rask is locked up long-term and playing well, but who knows what he's like in five years. They have zero reason to make a move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I don't follow this line of thinking. He's under control for a good amount of time at an affordable number. If he can excel as your backup then his value stays strong and helps your team if Rask struggles/gets hurt/needs rest. Rask is locked up long-term and playing well, but who knows what he's like in five years. They have zero reason to make a move. Because as far as I'm concerned their window to win is until Chara retires. Maximize that window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Remember how Darcy was going to turn Biron and Norenen into all these assets or LA was going to get so much for Bernier or Ottawa or Anaheim.........goalies just don't bring the value that is being talked about here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Varlamov went for a 1st and 2nd, Schneider a high 1st, Bernier for a 2nd/Frattin/Scrivens. Maybe they can use the other late 1st to find an up and coming guy. Edited February 13, 2015 by Lanny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I don't ever want to draft a goalie in the first round nor would I trade anything above a 5th round pick to get one. There are just too many guys you can just plug in and get quality tending from they are becoming the NHLs version of running backs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted February 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/top-nhl-trade-deadline-2015-rental-players/ Good list of top available UFAs heading up to the deadline and who might be interested. It also gives you a look at who might be available in free agency for the Sabres. Here's the list: 15. Erik Cole, winger in Dallas 14. Daniel Briere, forward in Colorado 13. Martin Erat, winger in Arizona 12. Michal Neuvirth, goalie in Buffalo 11. Daniel Winnik, winger in Toronto 10. Mike Green, defenseman in Washington 9. Marc Methot, defenseman in Ottawa 8. Michael Del Zotto, defenseman in Philly 7. Zbynek Michalek, defenseman in Arizona 6. Mike Santorelli, center in Toronto 5. Chris Stewart, winger in Buffalo 4. Andrej Sekera, defenseman in Carolina 3. Jaromir Jagr, winger in New Jersey 2. Cody Franson, defenseman in Toronto 1. Antoine Vermette, center in Arizona Looking at that list there are plenty of defensive guys that Murray could look at to fill out the top six next year. Mike Green, Cody Franson, Marc Methot (Ottawa connection), Zbynek Michalek. Decent chance he could add to the blueline with one of those guys. Santorelli would be the perfect target for the 4th line center this offseason. Also: Dreger said it's unlikely the Oilers make many moves during the season. Said they will wait until the offseason. Small deals like Jeff Petry and other minor pieces are possible to be moved. Nothing big. McKenzie said that Cam Atkinson in Columbus may be available. Wings weren't giving up Mantha or Larkin for Myers and that's who Murray wanted. Wings may turn their attention to Michalek and Franson. Also a bit of bomb that wen unnoticed: http://www.csnne.com/boston-bruins/haggerty-no-easy-solution-prevent-tough-ending-bs Reporter says that the Bruins could trade Chara this offseason. Edited February 13, 2015 by Tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I don't ever want to draft a goalie in the first round nor would I trade anything above a 5th round pick to get one. There are just too many guys you can just plug in and get quality tending from they are becoming the NHLs version of running backs. Agreed. We have the 1st pick of the 2nd round still, if needed take a the best GT prospect there. I think in today's NHL GT are a position where each year you grab 1 or maybe 2 if you have extra picks and then see what they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Darren Dreger: -Jets have already received calls about Tyler Myers. He said it won't happen in-season, but there is potential for a deal in the offseason. -Jets were looking for depth forwards but now may look at a top six forward with the financial flexibility they got in the Kane deal. -Santorelli and Winnik are hot names right now. -Bruins has been scouting Toronto and interested in deals; interested in Cody Franson. -Toronto is going to undergo a major overhaul. Morgan Reilly seems to be the only untouchable. -Would be surprised if Kessel and Phaneuf are still Leafs come next season. -Las Vegas ticket drive going well. 2016-17 may be too aggressive of a date, but it's possible. Update expected during cup finals. Is Phaneuf not virtually untradeable at this point? His contract is massive and he has not played well all year. I guess I could see Kessel dealt if they are really serious about a full rebuild but I just can't see the leafs pulling the trigger to do it. They do have Shanny in there now who may make that decision though. Thank God they are still 15 points up because they have been horrible for a long stretch of the season and will only get worse if Kessel is moved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Is Phaneuf not virtually untradeable at this point? His contract is massive and he has not played well all year. I guess I could see Kessel dealt if they are really serious about a full rebuild but I just can't see the leafs pulling the trigger to do it. They do have Shanny in there now who may make that decision though. Thank God they are still 15 points up because they have been horrible for a long stretch of the season and will only get worse if Kessel is moved. I think they'll have to retain a significant portion of Phaneuf's contract to move him, but I definitely think there will be a lot of interest in him for use on the PP and a defensively-protected second pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I think they'll have to retain a significant portion of Phaneuf's contract to move him, but I definitely think there will be a lot of interest in him for use on the PP and a defensively-protected second pair. How many years can the leafs retain salary? I thought it was only for one season? If it's multiple then ok but if not I don't see a team wanting to trade for a 2nd pairing Dman who turns 30 in two months and is making $7 million per season for the next six years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 How many years can the leafs retain salary? I thought it was only for one season? If it's multiple then ok but if not I don't see a team wanting to trade for a 2nd pairing Dman who turns 30 in two months and is making $7 million per season for the next six years. I'm certainly no CBA expert, but I always thought the salary retained was for the length of the deal unless agreed upon to be lower by the teams involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Ok, well if they eat half of the salary then I could see a team jumping at it but then it's $3.5 mil in dead money for the leafs over the next 6 seasons (if that is indeed how it works). I just think that for a guy that is going to be in his thirties and starting the downside of his career in a year or two (he plays a physical game and has been injured often) I can't see justifying $7 mil in cap space devoted to this guy. From a leafs perspective, the length of the deal is so long that I would not want dead cap space 6 years out. I think that contract will make any future trade very difficult and the return will be reflected if he can be traded at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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