WildCard Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) What did turn Chara around? Edited February 7, 2015 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 What did change Chara around? I'd love to bottle it and give it to Myers, that's for sure. But really, it's possible, maybe even likely, that it was just experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Moulson has a ntc so there is no way he gets moved. I think 2 second round picks 2015. And Hodgson foligno stewart and stafford gets it done with us retaining salary and taking a cap dump back This post has been brought to you by the Roy-for-Malkin foundation. With hope and leadership we will find a cure. To be honest, don't think i want a guy on this team who tweets himself doing push ups with a pile of cash on his back. This is a pretty good point. I'm not so concerned about the tweet itself as I am about what appears to be a tendency to regularly put off his teammates. Having said that, I would still trade a low 1st and a prospect not named Risto, Samson or Nikita for him. This is the stat line of a 23-year-old defenseman. His team gave up on him and traded him: GP G A PTS +/- PIM 82 2 7 9 -27 157 You all know who I'm talking about. He was not considered especially strong on the puck, despite his size. He was not considered to be especially physical, either. Three years later, he hit his prime at 26. 44 points that year. He never had a full season under 40 after that. His plus-minus was +33 that year. He had a negative +/- only once after that. If this team trades Myers, it had better get more than Cam Fowler or Dylan Larkin in return. He has the potential to be a franchise-defining player. STILL. Those two do not. this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Cam Fowler is currently playing on the top pair of a safe playoff team in the West. My guess is his name came up because the development of Lindolm has made his skill set redundant, and they may be interested in a more shutdown defender type (I'm with Potato on this one regarding Myers). But that's neither here nor there...getting Fowler for Myers is not some ridiculously lopsided trade in the Ducks favor. They're very different defenseman to be sure, but Fowler is every bit as valuable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 If that were true, even remotely, Buffalo would not be as historically bad as they are right now. By what measure, observational or statistical, makes you think that? I'm not seeing much....he's not falling down all the time, but he's still getting outmuscled by the likes of Deharnais. For his size, that is just flat out inexcusable. Myers's size is important to his game because he uses his massive reach to shut down large areas of the ice, not because he destroys dudes with bone shattering checks. He's never been inherently physical, but that doesn't make him any less of an effective defenseman. Conjecture, speculation and guess work. Maybe he didn't sign up for all time bad team shenanigans. He certainly did when he signed on the dotted line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I still don't think the Chara-Myers comparison is even remotely accurate. I also don't think Chara becomes Chara without the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I still don't think the Chara-Myers comparison is even remotely accurate. I also don't think Chara becomes Chara without the trade. If troll hockey players have a lengthened development period, why not freakish tall skinny marfans Martians? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Berries Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I personally believe Chara's success had much more to do with spezza, alfredsso, heatley, havlat, hossa and vermette. Success gave him confidence, and then going to Boston gave him a leadership role (which he definitely excelled at) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I personally believe Chara's success had much more to do with spezza, alfredsso, heatley, havlat, hossa and vermette. Success gave him confidence, and then going to Boston gave him a leadership role (which he definitely excelled at) Those names together always remind me of... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I personally believe Chara's success had much more to do with spezza, alfredsso, heatley, havlat, hossa and vermette. Success gave him confidence, and then going to Boston gave him a leadership role (which he definitely excelled at) I think it is even simpler than that. Chara didn't play the power play for the Isles. Ottawa put him on the top pair (he was a second pair guy on the Island) and put him on the first power play unit. That's where the big point increase came from (e.g. 17 power play points in 2002-2003 with Ottawa versus zero with the Isles). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I think it is even simpler than that. Chara didn't play the power play for the Isles. Ottawa put him on the top pair (he was a second pair guy on the Island) and put him on the first power play unit. That's where the big point increase came from (e.g. 17 power play points in 2002-2003 with Ottawa versus zero with the Isles). But it wasn't the scoring that meet Chara such a force of nature. It was impossible to play dump and chase against him. He shut down two thirds of the defensive zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I'd love to bottle it and give it to Myers, that's for sure. But really, it's possible, maybe even likely, that it was just experience. Weight Gainer 2000. According to his hockey cards, Chara went from 230 to 255 between 2000 and 2003. Myers is right around 230 now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 But it wasn't the scoring that meet Chara such a force of nature. It was impossible to play dump and chase against him. He shut down two thirds of the defensive zone. Up thread they were talking about the sudden point increase. But, yeah, Z got bigger and stronger with age. He is the son of an Olympic wrestler. Seems like it is just in his DNA to play a physical style. With Myers not so much, although he is playing nastier of late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Up thread they were talking about the sudden point increase. But, yeah, Z got bigger and stronger with age. He is the son of an Olympic wrestler. Seems like it is just in his DNA to play a physical style. With Myers not so much, although he is playing nastier of late. I don't remember him being very physical as an Islander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I still don't think the Chara-Myers comparison is even remotely accurate. I also don't think Chara becomes Chara without the trade. The Chara - Pronger comparisons weren't accurate either until Chara turned his game around. It took the move to Boston for it to all come together for Chara. I agree that Myers needs that change of scenery at this point. I wouldn't even consider a deal for Myers to Anaheim unless Silverberg's name is involved. I liked the kid in Ottawa, there is a ton of talent there. At 24, he should be coming of age over the next couple of seasons so he should fit right in with all the young talent the Sabres will have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Up thread they were talking about the sudden point increase. But, yeah, Z got bigger and stronger with age. He is the son of an Olympic wrestler. Seems like it is just in his DNA to play a physical style. With Myers not so much, although he is playing nastier of late. I agree that Chara seems to have more natural edge to his game than Myers does. But that's not what I really meant when I said that you couldn't play dump-and-chase against him. His range, combined with his instincts, simply allowed him to get to the puck and get it out before a forechecker could do anything about it. Although his size and strength also meant a forechecker couldn't knock him off the puck, so I think you're right that that was a factor too. The Chara - Pronger comparisons weren't accurate either until Chara turned his game around. It took the move to Boston for it to all come together for Chara. I agree that Myers needs that change of scenery at this point. I wouldn't even consider a deal for Myers to Anaheim unless Silverberg's name is involved. I liked the kid in Ottawa, there is a ton of talent there. At 24, he should be coming of age over the next couple of seasons so he should fit right in with all the young talent the Sabres will have. No. He was a force of nature his last couple of years in Ottawa. That's why they were so GD good and why it was such an achievement for the Sabres to beat them in 2006. It's also why he got the huge UFA deal to go to Boston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I agree that Chara seems to have more natural edge to his game than Myers does. But that's not what I really meant when I said that you couldn't play dump-and-chase against him. His range, combined with his instincts, simply allowed him to get to the puck and get it out before a forechecker could do anything about it. Although his size and strength also meant a forechecker couldn't knock him off the puck, so I think you're right that that was a factor too. No. He was a force of nature his last couple of years in Ottawa. That's why they were so GD good and why it was such an achievement for the Sabres to beat them in 2006. It's also why he got the huge UFA deal to go to Boston. Chara was definitely at a high level in Ottawa, IMO, he became that "force" with the the B on his chest. One of the few UFA's in recent year well worth the money spent, possibly even under paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freester Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 This post has been brought to you by the Roy-for-Malkin foundation. With hope and leadership we will find a cure. This is a pretty good point. I'm not so concerned about the tweet itself as I am about what appears to be a tendency to regularly put off his teammates. Having said that, I would still trade a low 1st and a prospect not named Risto, Samson or Nikita for him. this. Mr moderator nfreeman, Apparently you think that an injured player who only scored 10 goals and 22 points this year and was a disruptive influence in the locker room is worth far more than the proposed offer. I beg to differ. Winnipeg needs to make the playoffs this year and they desperately need forwards. They also have tremendous difficulty attracting free agents. Even though Stafford and Stewart are rentals they would be very helpful for the playoff run. In addition this increases the likelyhood of them resigning with the Jets. Hodgson has not had a good year, but his previous year scoring was quite comparable to Kane and he is signed long term. Foligno brings size and toughness and is also under contract. 2 second round picks with the sabres being the first pick of the second round is nothing to sneeze at. I am willing to bet a steak dinner at Peter Lugers that the ultimate package that Kane gets traded for is substantially less than what I proposed. What say you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Friedman in the 1st intermission mentioned that Philly and Buffalo have looked at Kane in the past and maybe interested now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Ennis for Kane. Make the trade tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 When you are trying to assemble a very young team, Kane's baggage could be lethal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 When you are trying to assemble a very young team, Kane's baggage could be lethal. What's the specific issue with him? Everyone is saying he is a terrible guy, but no one seems to know exactly why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) What's the specific issue with him? Everyone is saying he is a terrible guy, but no one seems to know exactly why.1) 2) he shows up to the arena in a track suit when business suits are required 3) rather than play through his current injury helping his team make the playoffs, he conveniently opts for surgery on the heels of getting disciplined for track suit Edited February 8, 2015 by inkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 When a guys team mates turn on him he's a locker room cancer. Apparently ' team ' isn't a part of his vocabulary. When you are part of a team your team mates will go through a wall for you. And you would go through a wall for them. If you've never been part of a team you wouldn't understand. I could list off a few more fitting cliche's but why bother. Look at the photo's above . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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