jimiVbaby Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 That may be true but the Sabres would be trading 3 firsts and 2nds plus the rest of their draft or would be getting an additional 2nd-7th pick if they traded back (depending on the scenario we are discussing). Either of those are foolish. In one instance we lose our entire draft for 1 guy. In the other we get a bunch of pics we don't need. If the Sabres finish last and draft 1st/2nd they let Tim Murray walk up on stage and say Connor McDavid with the 1st overall selection or Jack Eichel with the 2nd overall selection. Those 5-7th round draft picks have absolutely not value in this discussion. No team is going to submit a serious trade offer where they are the one getting those picks in return. There may be a serious offer out there where a team moves down a slot. This one is not even remotely close to that. Let me re-frame the question (although I think shrader already answered it) to how I was thinking about it. Is there a team that would trade the #1 spot for #2 and the other two firsts the Sabres own? I think yes, as long as that team isn't Canadian or one with a rather significant following. I'm thinking Florida, Arizona, Carolina and (maybe? Dallas). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicknfla Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I wouldn't trade McEichel for picks 10-30 in the draft. Some of you guys are loosing your minds. Come on boys 30 games to go. Keep it together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Let me re-frame the question (although I think shrader already answered it) to how I was thinking about it. Is there a team that would trade the #1 spot for #2 and the other two firsts the Sabres own? I think yes, as long as that team isn't Canadian or one with a rather significant following. I'm thinking Florida, Arizona, Carolina and (maybe? Dallas). No, it would take a lot more than those two additional picks. We're talking about serious NHL talent to even get someone to listen. It doesn't really matter in the end though. Neither of the McEichel draft picks is going to be moved no matter who winds up in the top two. There was only one scenario where it may have even been possible and that was the long shot where Buffalo wound up with both draft picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Let me re-frame the question (although I think shrader already answered it) to how I was thinking about it. Is there a team that would trade the #1 spot for #2 and the other two firsts the Sabres own? I think yes, as long as that team isn't Canadian or one with a rather significant following. I'm thinking Florida, Arizona, Carolina and (maybe? Dallas). No there is not a team in the league that would trade #1 for #2 and #24 and #26. It just won't happen. No, it would take a lot more than those two additional picks. We're talking about serious NHL talent to even get someone to listen. It doesn't really matter in the end though. Neither of the McEichel draft picks is going to be moved no matter who winds up in the top two. There was only one scenario where it may have even been possible and that was the long shot where Buffalo wound up with both draft picks. Yea you are talking like Myers, Zemgus, #2, #24 and #26 as an opening salvo. Which is why it doesn't happen. The price is really high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I mentioned it somewhere, I'd have to think about #2 + Top LW and top RW for #1. The example I used is Eberle and Hall from EDM, someone else mentioned that having Sharp, Toews, and Kane may be better than Crosby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 No there is not a team in the league that would trade #1 for #2 and #24 and #26. It just won't happen. Yea you are talking like Myers, Zemgus, #2, #24 and #26 as an opening salvo. Which is why it doesn't happen. The price is really high. I wouldn't do that one for McDavid but if the trade was McDavid for Eichel, 17, 22, 31 and 45 and all other picks. Now I think both teams have to at least contimplate it. Again, Im not suggesting it would EVER happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimiVbaby Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) No, it would take a lot more than those two additional picks. We're talking about serious NHL talent to even get someone to listen. It doesn't really matter in the end though. Neither of the McEichel draft picks is going to be moved no matter who winds up in the top two. There was only one scenario where it may have even been possible and that was the long shot where Buffalo wound up with both draft picks. A bit of history- Penguins Traded 2003 first round pick (#3-Nathan Horton), 2003 second round pick (#55-Stefan Meyer) to Panthers for 2003 first round pick (#1-Marc-Andre Fleury), 2003 third round pick (#73-Dan Carcillo) on 2003-06-21 Granted there was no Connor McDavid in the 2003 draft moving up two slots only cost the Pens #3 and #55. For a team to move down just one spot and get a player that has been said to be almost as good as McDavid I feel like this board is really overvaluing the number one spot. Maybe Zemgus plus the three firsts as long as the Sabres land in the #2 spot. Edited February 2, 2015 by jimiVbaby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Consider this: Florida is a year ahead of the Sabres in their rebuild and is currently 8 points out of the wildcard. They are not just Connor McDavid away from a championship but they could be a Jack Eichel and 2 firsts away from one. And they really don't have the fanbase to upset in the process. Each situation is unique. Two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimiVbaby Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I wouldn't do that one for McDavid but if the trade was McDavid for Eichel, 17, 22, 31 and 45 and all other picks. Now I think both teams have to at least contimplate it. Again, Im not suggesting it would EVER happen. I think what shrader said was correct... the late round picks mean nothing. Maybe 3 firsts and the 2 seconds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Some of you guys are loosing your minds. Come on boys 30 games to go. Keep it together. I agree. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 A bit of history- Penguins Traded 2003 first round pick (#3-Nathan Horton), 2003 second round pick (#55-Stefan Meyer) to Panthers for 2003 first round pick (#1-Marc-Andre Fleury), 2003 third round pick (#73-Dan Carcillo) on 2003-06-21 Granted there was no Connor McDavid in the 2003 draft moving up two slots only cost the Pens #3 and #55. For a team to move down just one spot and get a player that has been said to be almost as good as McDavid I feel like this board is really overvaluing the number one spot. Maybe Zemgus plus the three firsts as long as the Sabres land in the #2 spot. You completely explained why it did work that year by saying there was no McDavid. But there was even more to it with that draft. Not only was there no McDavid, but there was no true #1 prospect that year either. The other big change today is the salary cap. You can certainly work around a deal that is going to involve multiple NHL players, but it's an added complication that is going to get in the way of a lot of internet trade proposals that are thrown around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Not to mention the 2003 draft saw a player Ryan Getzlaf's caliber go 19th overall. That is unusual, granted this draft is supposedly as deep, that is still a mighty gamble. Edited February 2, 2015 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted February 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 If we get one then don't entertain a trade unless the team at two wants to give you the world. If we get two then don't entertain a trade unless the team at one is selling low. Neither of those things are likely to happen. Just get one or the other and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimiVbaby Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 You completely explained why it did work that year by saying there was no McDavid. But there was even more to it with that draft. Not only was there no McDavid, but there was no true #1 prospect that year either. The other big change today is the salary cap. You can certainly work around a deal that is going to involve multiple NHL players, but it's an added complication that is going to get in the way of a lot of internet trade proposals that are thrown around. The salary cap angle is certainly a factor but not so much if the deal is picks for picks like I'm proposing. And sure, the 2003 draft didn't have McDavid but it didn't have an Eichel either. If the perceived difference between these two "generational" players isn't that large there has to be GM's out there that see Eichel and 2 firsts in this draft as equal or maybe more valuable than McDavid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 The salary cap angle is certainly a factor but not so much if the deal is picks for picks like I'm proposing. And sure, the 2003 draft didn't have McDavid but it didn't have an Eichel either. If the perceived difference between these two "generational" players isn't that large there has to be GM's out there that see Eichel and 2 firsts in this draft as equal or maybe more valuable than McDavid. I'm not a GM, but I see Eichel and 2 firsts as more valuable than McDavid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) I'm not a GM, but I see Eichel and 2 firsts as more valuable than McDavid. I would consider it as well but I don't think that trade can happen. Edited February 2, 2015 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I would consider it as well but I don't think that trade can happen.Why 'can't' it happen? IF the Sabres were in position to make that offer and believed McDavid to be that much more valuable that Eichel; I could see that proposal (especially as the OP posited it) as getting real consideration by all and actually getting chosen by a few GM's. Doubt the Sabres would make that offer though. Can definitely see where it WON'T happen; not so sure why it CAN'T happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) It can't happen because you need two parties to make it happen and I don't believe for this draft you would get that. In one instance we lose our entire draft for 1 guy. In the other we get a bunch of pics we don't need. If the Sabres finish last and draft 1st/2nd they let Tim Murray walk up on stage and say Connor McDavid with the 1st overall selection or Jack Eichel with the 2nd overall selection. If you like I can say, I don't not believe there is a likely scenario where the 1st and 2nd overall picks swap outside of the lottery. Edited February 2, 2015 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimiVbaby Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 It can't happen because you need two parties to make it happen and I don't believe for this draft you would get that. In one instance we lose our entire draft for 1 guy. In the other we get a bunch of pics we don't need. If the Sabres finish last and draft 1st/2nd they let Tim Murray walk up on stage and say Connor McDavid with the 1st overall selection or Jack Eichel with the 2nd overall selection. If you like I can say, I don't not believe there is a likely scenario where the 1st and 2nd overall picks swap outside of the lottery. The OP was about the Sabres entire draft for McDavid but I think the conversation has pivoted to #2 overall and 2 firsts for #1 overall. That's a trade that I believe could happen if Tim Murray believes there is a very wide gap between Connor and Jack and the GM of the team with #1 doesn't. Maybe it depends on where the two other firsts land but 3 first round picks, one of which is considered a "generational" player in Jack Eichel, would make the decision a difficult one even if it's for McDavid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I'd go with jack eichel and 2 1sts myself, those are 3 players that should make the team vs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 yes, you trade your entire draft for 1 guy but that guy is maybe better than Crosby. How about if Carolina wins the lottery? They have the 29th ranked prospect pool in the entire league as ranked by Hockey Futures? I think they would consider trading the #1 pick for Eichel and the Sabres other top draft picks. You could even argue that Eichel would be a win for them in the marketing department. Will it happen? very unlikely but there could be some merit to it for both parties., especially if Murray sees McDavid as a clear cut better prospect than Eichel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I'd go with jack eichel and 2 1sts myself, those are 3 players that should make the team vs 1 I'd go with McDavid. Late firsts are traded in spades every year. There's only one way to get a prospect like McDavid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) I'm not a GM, but I see Eichel and 2 firsts as more valuable than McDavid. I see Eichel and 1 first as more valuable than McDavid. Let me rephrase. If the Oilers offer Eichel and two firsts to the Sabres for McDavid, I take it. If we get Eichel, no way I give up two firsts plus Eichel for McDavid. Edited February 2, 2015 by JJFIVEOH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I'm not a GM, but I see Eichel and 2 firsts as more valuable than McDavid. Maybe in a vacuum. But two late firsts you won't see any production out of for 4 years (and who are probably 3rd line players if they make it) wouldn't really do much of anything for me as a GM in the spot to draft McDavid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Maybe in a vacuum. But two late firsts you won't see any production out of for 4 years (and who are probably 3rd line players if they make it) wouldn't really do much of anything for me as a GM in the spot to draft McDavid. Aye. I think the only way a trade happens is whichever GM holds the #1 picks values Eichel over McDavid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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