WildCard Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 John: Homer, what have you got against gays? Homer: You know, it's not...usual! If there was a law, it would be against it! Marge: Oh, please, Homer, you're embarrassing yourself! Homer: No, they're embarrassing me! They're embarrassing America! They turned the Navy into a floating joke. They took our best names, like Bruce, Lance, and Julian. Those used to be our toughest, manliest names, but now they're just... John: ######? (seriously, the Q word that rhymes with steer gets blocked?) Homer: And that's another thing — I resent you people using that word. That's our word for making fun of you! We need it! And on that note, I can never go to a steel mill ever again. Not that there's anything wrong with that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I have no doubt that initial use of thug in this thread was in fact the racial version, but I hate that this word is now one of those suddenly forbidden words. I threw out the word thug when Sherman taunted Crabtree. I have also used it several times for Milan Lucic and when talking about mafia shows/movies. I associate it with jackass behavior meant for intimidation. Now I'm suddenly racist because I applied it to the wrong person. The double standards that have evolved when it comes to race have gotten way out of control. Yeah, the image conjured in my head when I hear the word "thug" is never a black person. I don't know when that became a racially-charged word, or why someone who is a thug deserves the benefit of the doubt, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Oxford tells me that a thug is a violent person ... http://www.oxforddic...on/english/thug EDIT: I have used the word at times, even on this board, and that is how I use it. If someone now has it meaning other things well, whatever. what words denote, and what they connote are two very different things. speaking of CK, he has a great mini-bit - throw-away, really - about how the word "Jew" is so flexible because it can be used reverentially to refer to a storied culture, or, if you put a "stank" on it, it can be pejorative. You've essentially summed up how human communication works into two succinct sentences. Regardless of that though, words are always up to the interpretation of the listener and always have been. Whether they interpret them in the way you desire or not depends on both the speaker/author and the listener/reader but you can’t always make people perceive things in the same way that you do. hear, hear. that is how language works. shrader, you may be using that word with a blank mind and clean heart, but if you're using it to refer to richard sherman, you're casting your lot with mouth-breathing duck-dynasty knuckle-draggers who, by the score, use that word all day long in polite company to put a "stank" on those (filthy, 3/5 human) black guys. edit: found the CK bit, starting at 5:45 http://youtu.be/hLoqhvZ1SZI Edited April 30, 2014 by That Aud Smell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Yeah, the image conjured in my head when I hear the word "thug" is never a black person. I don't know when that became a racially-charged word, or why someone who is a thug deserves the benefit of the doubt, anyway. It became racially charged when racist white talking heads started using it as a substitution for "black guy that I'd be afraid of if I saw him in public". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 It became racially charged when racist white talking heads started using it as a substitution for "black guy that I'd be afraid of if I saw him in public". and far worse than that. thanks, FOX news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 What I think of when I hear the word "thug": http://benkmoser.com/wp-content/uploads/gsh2.png Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josie Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 To me, the word thug brings to mind an almost cartoonish gigantic skinhead/meathead dude type. Add a torn sweater and little bowler hat and it's almost a college mascot. Might be because in the industry I work in, we refer to a bad guy and his gang of thugs, and it generally is a more Streets of Rage blanket term for big scary baddie with huge muscles and scars. This includes large baddies of color. This thread is really one of the first places I've seen it acknowledged as a race specific term. Maybe I live under a rock. Thug and goon have always been interchangeable in my mind... It became racially charged when racist white talking heads started using it as a substitution for "black guy that I'd be afraid of if I saw him in public". Yeah... Usually I hear something far more uh... colorful.. in that situation. :sick: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 To me, the word thug brings to mind an almost cartoonish gigantic skinhead/meathead dude type. Add a torn sweater and little bowler hat and it's almost a college mascot. Might be because in the industry I work in, we refer to a bad guy and his gang of thugs, and it generally is a more Streets of Rage blanket term for big scary baddie with huge muscles and scars. This includes large baddies of color. This thread is really one of the first places I've seen it acknowledged as a race specific term. Maybe I live under a rock. Thug and goon have always been interchangeable in my mind... If you're using it without reference to race, creed, or color, then bully for you. If you're using it to refer to people who are legitimately exhibiting thuggish behavior, even better. The problem comes when people -- white people, really -- start using it to capture in a general way their distaste for elements of black American culture. And if you were unaware that that's been going on for a while, then perhaps you're on notice now. So, when people used the term "thug," en masse, to refer to Sherman for his emotional outburst about Crabtree, they were, IMO, whether they intended to or not, drawing on race stereotypes and biases when they called him a thug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted April 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 What does the last comment really mean? It's a black league? I think that's what you are getting at. He didn't say any of this at a game. Why are you bringing Obama into the discussion? I listen to sports talk all day and night and no one I've listened to has even mentioned the POTUS. Who cares what he thinks about this issue? This is an organization handling their business because one of their own tarnished the brand. Yea, I'm not even going to quote the ignorant comment you responded to. What a heap of idiocy. Also, thug is the new "safe" was to say ###### (n-word). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Jameis Winston from Fla State reportedly stole some crab legs. Get ready for another round of "thug" talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Yeah, the image conjured in my head when I hear the word "thug" is never a black person. I don't know when that became a racially-charged word, or why someone who is a thug deserves the benefit of the doubt, anyway. I may just be naive, but I was completely unaware of it having racial connotations until Richard Sherman told me about it. I guess it doesn't matter in the long run because a new word will eventually pop up and inevitably be removed from our allowed vocabulary. Soon enough we won't be allowed to talk at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I may just be naive, but I was completely unaware of it having racial connotations until Richard Sherman told me about it. I guess it doesn't matter in the long run because a new word will eventually pop up and inevitably be removed from our allowed vocabulary. Soon enough we won't be allowed to talk at all. I know, right! We're down to like 150,000 words available for use. another 6-8 millennia of this PC BS and we'll be back to communicating with hand gestures and "ughs". Or, we could attempt to address the underlying hatred and bias that is causing these words to be co-opted into something new and unacceptable. Either way, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I guess I'm lucky. I hate everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I guess it doesn't matter in the long run because a new word will eventually pop up and inevitably be removed from our allowed vocabulary. This is how language works. Some words that used to be patently offensive, no longer are (I need an example, but don't have one at the ready -- maybe calling someone a Commie or a Red? A lunatic?). And other words that used to have no offensive connotation to them at all, suddenly are (e.g., thug). Give you an example from my own life: In my kids' middle school, the word ratchet has been banned (esp. when used in reference to a female) and is basically treated as being tantamount to an F-bomb. I have no idea what the word means or whence it came (I haven't even yet Googled it). I believe it means a woman is of ill repute or something. Soon enough we won't be allowed to talk at all. Now don't get grumpy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Jameis Winston from Fla State reportedly stole some crab legs. Get ready for another round of "thug" talk. Free Snowcrab University: http://www.tomahawkn...rab-legs-publix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 This is how language works. Some words that used to be patently offensive, no longer are (I need an example, but don't have one at the ready -- maybe calling someone a Commie or a Red? A lunatic?). And other words that used to have no offensive connotation to them at all, suddenly are (e.g., thug). Give you an example from my own life: In my kids' middle school, the word ratchet has been banned (esp. when used in reference to a female) and is basically treated as being tantamount to an F-bomb. I have no idea what the word means or whence it came (I haven't even yet Googled it). I believe it means a woman is of ill repute or something. Here is a fantastic article about it from the Chigago Sun-Times (it's a clean, totally safe for all audiences article): http://www.suntimes.com/news/fountain/22358328-452/excuse-me-but-ratchet-is-wretched.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) I may just be naive, but I was completely unaware of it having racial connotations until Richard Sherman told me about it. I guess it doesn't matter in the long run because a new word will eventually pop up and inevitably be removed from our allowed vocabulary. Soon enough we won't be allowed to talk at all. It became racially charged when thousands of people called richard sherman a thug and a ###### when he has never done anything to warrant that. No one is saying don't use the word "thug" and no one is telling you your allowed vocabulary and it wont escalate to not being "allowed to talk." I use the word thug. Just use it correctly. Don't call black people a thug ignorantly (I'm not saying you did this, I'm just saying when you shouldn't use the word thug and how it can be a word with racist undertones) when they are a not in the least bit a thug. Don't call richard sherman a thug, don't call the NBA a thug-league. Why is that so hard for some of you? Why is it so worthy of complaining about? Original Post: An NBA owner is incredibly racist. Page 1: The NBA is a thug-league Page 2: People over-exaggerating something and complaining about their freedom to use vocabulary when no one was saying that. Edited April 30, 2014 by Numark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 This, I believe, was Mark Cuban's point, and it is deserving of some consideration. I believe he will be the sole voter against Sterling's expulsion for this reason. Now, let's look at reality. We don't (or didn't) know the views of Pegula, Golisano, Rigas, Knox; or, on the football side, Wilson, on social issues. We also don't know anything of the views of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Axl Rose, Peter Max, you get the point. Why? Because they are or were smart enough to keep them to themselves. Sterling is not only guilty of being a bigot, he also is an idiot. If I'm in an association of any sort, I don't want bigots or idiots associated with me. The NBA has a reputation to protect. It is a business. Some businesses (Chik-fil-A) go overboard for one crowd; some (Disney) go overboard for the other. But the NBA knows its demographics, and absolutely did the right thing from a business perspective. (And, frankly, from a human perspective, too.) If it were NASCAR, or, dare I say, the NHL, it would have been drawn out. (Hell, with the NHL, it would have taken a year.) Are most sports owners robber barons? You bet. They didn't get rich by writing a lot of checks. It's either family money, ill-gotten money, or Internet money (much of which is ill-gotten). I heard the same GR bit you did, and I get the point. We have alternatives to unregulated capitalism; we can go the China route (I wouldn't) or we can go the Northern Europe route (which results in mass happiness and health, everyone does ok, but dammit, they're Euros!). This is what we have. I guess we could eliminate pro sports to penalize the wealthiest, but we'd actually be less happy without the bread and circus. So enjoy it, and when there is a chance to cast out a jerk like Sterling, enjoy that, too. I cannot disagree with any of that. But the problem I have is that Sterling has long been proven to be a racist and has lost lawsuits regarding his racist issues. Only NOW does it seem to matter. It's not even the same as the anti-gay movement, etc. Ten years ago you could be anti-gay and many people would be right there with you. Ten years ago, Donald Sterling was paying record fines for discriminatory housing policies. But I do think its interesting to see what happens with the Magic owner. After all the employees of Mozilla got their CEO to step down because of his anti-gay views. Do the other owners have the right to not do business with Sterling? The threshold for kicking this guy out was pretty high, but he managed cross it. I guess I'm not one to believe that what 30 owners with lawyers decide are really indicative of any trends in America. Sterling will be forced to sell to the tune of half a billion dollars. He'll get by. It's the right action, far too late. He'll get by... I am sure of that. HEAR HEAR!!!! AND.....I raise you $88 million!!! http://forums.sabres...-state-debacle/ I've got a crisp $20 bill that says the free throw % would be higher....... So, I remember that thread. But there is a distinct difference in being guilty by association and being guilty. Moreover, this is direct, proven guilt. The argument can be made that those against fracking shouldn't be supporting the Sabres. It could be argued that Pegula's influence on the environment from fracking is equally as damning as being involved in the mortgage securities debacle. It became racially charged when thousands of people called richard sherman a thug and a ###### when he has never done anything to warrant that. No one is saying don't use the word "thug" and no one is telling you your allowed vocabulary and it wont escalate to not being "allowed to talk." I use the word thug. Just use it correctly. Don't call black people a thug ignorantly (I'm not saying you did this, I'm just saying when you shouldn't use the word thug and how it can be a word with racist undertones) when they are a not in the least bit a thug. Don't call richard sherman a thug, don't call the NBA a thug-league. Why is that so hard for some of you? Why is it so worthy of complaining about? Original Post: An NBA owner is incredibly racist. Page 1: The NBA is a thug-league Page 2: People over-exaggerating something and complaining about their freedom to use vocabulary when no one was saying that. Not that I want to delve too far into this.. but I am curious. If someone chooses to speak in such a way, dress in such a way, and act in such a way that is incredibly similar to people who are commonly thought of as thugs doesn't it seem inevitable that said person would also be classified as such? If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck kind of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Here is a fantastic article about it from the Chigago Sun-Times (it's a clean, totally safe for all audiences article): http://www.suntimes.com/news/fountain/22358328-452/excuse-me-but-ratchet-is-wretched.html The dumbest slang term of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 It became racially charged when thousands of people called richard sherman a thug and a ###### when he has never done anything to warrant that. No one is saying don't use the word "thug" and no one is telling you your allowed vocabulary and it wont escalate to not being "allowed to talk." I use the word thug. Just use it correctly. Don't call black people a thug ignorantly (I'm not saying you did this, I'm just saying when you shouldn't use the word thug and how it can be a word with racist undertones) when they are a not in the least bit a thug. Don't call richard sherman a thug, don't call the NBA a thug-league. Why is that so hard for some of you? Why is it so worthy of complaining about? Original Post: An NBA owner is incredibly racist. Page 1: The NBA is a thug-league Page 2: People over-exaggerating something and complaining about their freedom to use vocabulary when no one was saying that. So what should I call Sherman for that act? It really doesn't matter what word anyone used because it was eventually going to be turned into the "you're racist" response. He's a smart guy and he knew exactly what he was doing. He acting like a fool and he damn well knew it. So he calls the response racist and suddenly the focus is off of him. Brilliant. He's an arrogant ass, but he's a smart arrogant ass. As for the thug league comment, that was a post made by someone who continuously shows off his idiocy in nearly every post. Some people are best ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I think it's a rush to judgement by the PC police. There was no investigation, no trial. There was a severe penalty. I'm not condoning what he said...what he's saying makes no sense to me...I think there are mental issues there. Sounds like a demented, crazy old bastard to me. The guy was taped in secret...this should be considered in some kind of well-researched trial, like in the Black Sox scandal. It would be considered in a criminal or civil proceeding, but this is the court of public opinion and the rules are very different. Th bottom line is that there are expectations of morality placed upon people in certain positions. Nobody cares if it's Chuck the bricklayer saying those things, but we - and I think rightly so - hold people in positions of authority to higher standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Ten years ago you could be anti-gay and many people would be right there with you. Ten years ago, Donald Sterling was paying record fines for discriminatory housing policies. But I do think its interesting to see what happens with the Magic owner. After all the employees of Mozilla got their CEO to step down because of his anti-gay views. Worth keeping an eye on, I guess. Is this a slippery slope? Who knows. I sorta doubt it. I think these pro leagues will act in this way only when they're put in a position so vile and repugnant that they have no choice but to act. The Magic situation sounds like it could go that way -- but maybe not if they keep their position based in genuinely held religious beliefs (however misguided) and don't get caught on tape talking about how God sent AIDS as a gay cancer to eradicate a scourge from the earth. If someone chooses to speak in such a way, dress in such a way, and act in such a way that is incredibly similar to people who are commonly thought of as thugs doesn't it seem inevitable that said person would also be classified as such? If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck kind of thing. waaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitt a second. what did sherman do? he spoke passionately, loudly, and angrily moments after vanquishing a rival in the most decisive and visible way possible. but because of where he comes from, the color of his skin, and how he talks, people saw this? check yo bias, perfesser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 <snip> Not that I want to delve too far into this.. but I am curious. If someone chooses to speak in such a way, dress in such a way, and act in such a way that is incredibly similar to people who are commonly thought of as thugs doesn't it seem inevitable that said person would also be classified as such? If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck kind of thing. When you say "thugs," what do you mean? Members of a Boston Irish street gang? If so, how do they dress? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 To me, the word thug brings to mind an almost cartoonish gigantic skinhead/meathead dude type. Add a torn sweater and little bowler hat and it's almost a college mascot. Might be because in the industry I work in, we refer to a bad guy and his gang of thugs, and it generally is a more Streets of Rage blanket term for big scary baddie with huge muscles and scars. This includes large baddies of color. This thread is really one of the first places I've seen it acknowledged as a race specific term. Maybe I live under a rock. Thug and goon have always been interchangeable in my mind... Yeah... Usually I hear something far more uh... colorful.. in that situation. :sick: I think you have a very hockey centric view of things. Nothing wron with that. We've all called Lucic and Chara thugs. It fits. I'm guessing most of this country pictures this when they hear the word thug. http://soultrain.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Tupac-Thug-Life.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Really don't see what the fuss is all about, certainly not worth being crucified over it. Racism is inbedded in every person, the people that stand up there so high and mighty are just big hypocrites. Not saying what he said is excusable, but im sure everyone has said something racist in his life, would be fun if it got recorded huh ? People that say they aren't racist are the ones I trust the least, because i know they are lying, racism is just human nature. Edited April 30, 2014 by Heimdall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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