Trettioåtta Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 Never mind...clearly my entire point was missed. It was not about microscopically comparing each and every prospect with each other on Buffalo's roster. I was simply saying that with all of the "what-ifs" and unknowns we have on the roster, how can anyone say we are ahead of those other teams? They have plenty of skill as well, some of which is further ahead of what Buffalo has at the same age. Plus, like Buffalo, they have a lot of "who's" and what-ifs," it is all the same as the Sabres' organization has. I would say they are all at about the same place right now. The difference between Buffalo and the rest, is the fact that Buffalo has the draft picks and is basically starting from scratch. But absolutely zero of that means that anything is going to develop and pay off...or become some of those other players. (I sure hope it does. I sure hope the OP is correct. I am just being realistic, I have seen this play out for years. I am 100% onboard with the tank, and who most everyone around here wants the Sabres. I have mentioned that from post #1 since I joined this site. I was not attacking the OP or trying to insult anyone's evaluations or opinions...I was simply stating the obvious for discussion purposes. Lesson learned, for sure...I apologize. /rant) I, too, have stated this as my ideal situation, numerous times here and elsewhere...and will continue to do so until it is not possible. Thank you, just digging my head out of the sand and trying to be realistic for once in my life. :-) Going from just video scouting to the biggest scouting department in the league should have some effect on the quality of the players we get, and thus the chance that they will pan out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Malooga Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 (edited) Drafting well and having a extremely deep pool of prospects are not necessarily the same thing. The Sabres from 2008-2011 only drafted 1 time in the 2nd round. That was Luke Adam who hasn't flamed out but also hasn't lit the world on fire. Since 2007 here is a list of picks taken in the first 3 rounds of the draft: 2007 - 2nd TJ Brennan, 2nd Corey Scheistal, 3rd Corey Tropp 2008 - 1st Tyler Myers, 1st Tyler Ennis, 2nd Luke Adam, 3rd Corey Fienhage 2009 - 1st Zack Kassian, 3rd Brayden McNabb 2010 - 1st Mark Pysyk, 3rd Jerome Gauthier-Leduc, 3rd Kevin Sundher, 3rd Matt McKenzie 2011 - 1st Joel Armia, 3rd Dan Catenacci 2012 - 1st Mikahil Grigorenko, 1st Zemgus Girgensons, 2nd Jake McCabe, 3rd Justin Kea Seems that are drafting has gotten better and that we do draft well. Also in the last 2 years we have had 10 picks in the first 3 rounds and 8 in the first 2 rounds. So our prospect pool has changed tremendously in the last 2 years. WIth all due respect...in 6 years, we have 2-3 prospects playing full-time in the NHL...looking at other teams, that is horrendous. Going from just video scouting to the biggest scouting department in the league should have some effect on the quality of the players we get, and thus the chance that they will pan out I agree with that, but now the NHL is trying to put a clamp on that because owners can't keep up with Pegula. Already said you can't have on-ice combine-type camps to evaluate prospects. Which is absurd. And if they change the 2015 draft and sc*ew Buffalo...I will lose it. That will ruin the league. Edited April 3, 2014 by Bob Malooga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 WIth all due respect...in 6 years, we have 2-3 prospects playing full-time in the NHL...looking at other teams, that is horrendous. Tropp, Myers, Ennis, Kassian, Girgensons and Pysyk (he is only in the AHL right now to help them - he has easily been top 3 D man for us this year) With Adam, McNabb, Grigorenko and McCabe all making showings. That really isn't bad. 6/19 are full time regulars 11/19 have made appearances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 (edited) WIth all due respect...in 6 years, we have 2-3 prospects playing full-time in the NHL...looking at other teams, that is horrendous. I agree with that, but now the NHL is trying to put a clamp on that because owners can't keep up with Pegula. Already said you can't have on-ice combine-type camps to evaluate prospects. Which is absurd. And if they change the 2015 draft and sc*ew Buffalo...I will lose it. That will ruin the league. With all due respect, Kassian, Myers, Ennis, Tropp, McNabb and Pysyk (who is and will be full time NHL), Girgensons. That is 7 players with full time or on the cusp of full time NHL status. Go look at other teams and their drafts, it's similar. It also predates our revised scouting department. It does not take into account the 2013 draft in which it looks like Compher, Zadorov, and Ristolainen will all be NHL players. I will leave out Possler, Baptiste and other guys we are unsure of. There is a reason some of us are actually hopeful now. DR gutted this team of depth btw 06-08. He continued to trade off valuable 2nd round picks from 08-11. It will take time for the the 12,13,14 draft classes to make it to the NHL but again rebuild. Some of the teams you mentioned are further along in their rebuilds because they didn't tear it down to the foundation like we did. The reason I am vehemently disagreeing with you is 2 fold, 1) your doom and gloom attitude which leads to 2) the fact you ignored the new scouting department coupled with the plethora of picks. As for your argument which is other teams are better off then us, we are last in the NHL every team looks better then us. However some teams like NYI and Vancouver are dumpster fires I want no part of even if they do have some veteran talent. I disagree with your assessment of our talent pool, I disagree with your assessment of other teams. As such I am voicing that. If you really want to come in with "You don't understand what I am saying" then be my guest. Either way I still disagree with what you have said for the various reasons I have listed. That is what happens around here. People disagree and talk about stuff. Edited April 4, 2014 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 Vancouver is tank job waiting to happen. They definitely are not any better off than us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 Vancouver is tank job waiting to happen. They definitely are not any better off than us. Incorrect. They have Kassian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 WIth all due respect...in 6 years, we have 2-3 prospects playing full-time in the NHL...looking at other teams, that is horrendous. I agree with that, but now the NHL is trying to put a clamp on that because owners can't keep up with Pegula. Already said you can't have on-ice combine-type camps to evaluate prospects. Which is absurd. And if they change the 2015 draft and sc*ew Buffalo...I will lose it. That will ruin the league. I believe they can still do this but there is a player limit now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 Incorrect. They have Kassian. :lol: :lol: :death: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 Incorrect. They have Kassian. And that comment wins the thread :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 This is going to take awhile. I think we will look back and consider next year 14-15 and the year after 15-16 and maybe even 16-17 as part of rock bottom. Unless we get some solid free agents in here this is going to be a long slow ride to contention. The Colombus kid from the 2010 draft is just now breaking through. That's three and a half years after he was drafted. That seems about right, but some players take longer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 This is going to take awhile. I think we will look back and consider next year 14-15 and the year after 15-16 and maybe even 16-17 as part of rock bottom. Unless we get some solid free agents in here this is going to be a long slow ride to contention. The Colombus kid from the 2010 draft is just now breaking through. That's three and a half years after he was drafted. That seems about right, but some players take longer so you are comparing the 4 th overall pick to the 1 st overall pick the Sabres have? Hall and Seguin both stayed immediately in the NHL and contributed. Not saying the next couple years won't be tough but this is rock bottom here and now. We aren't going to have the years at last in the league. Too much young talent already in play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 We have clinched last place. The only way the next 2-3 years can be part of rock bottom is if we finish last. That won't happen. Remember, 25th is better than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 I believe they can still do this but there is a player limit now. How many visits are permitted? Is it like the nfl where you have to do it individually, or can you bring in 10 ata time so as to not tip your hand as to who you are really interested in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) Yeah don't think we'll finish rock bottom next year either, dunno, depends on what they do with the kids. Personally i'd keep them in Rochester for one more year, keep them away from this trainwreck of a team. (even foligno is still a kid, i think he has been mismanaged the most of all) Edited April 5, 2014 by Heimdall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 This is going to take awhile. I think we will look back and consider next year 14-15 and the year after 15-16 and maybe even 16-17 as part of rock bottom. Unless we get some solid free agents in here this is going to be a long slow ride to contention. The Colombus kid from the 2010 draft is just now breaking through. That's three and a half years after he was drafted. That seems about right, but some players take longer The FA's will come as complimentary role players when the time is right. You need to draft and develop your top line talent, preferably towards the top of round one, which we will finally begin doing this year. This is the plan and yes it will take some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 I did not read the whole thread, but ... Dead last in the league with a roster devoid of real NHL talent, except maybe a few marginal types. All those draft picks and $2.50 will get you one of those terrible Tim Hortons coffees. How is this better off than ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 so you are comparing the 4 th overall pick to the 1 st overall pick the Sabres have? Hall and Seguin both stayed immediately in the NHL and contributed. Not saying the next couple years won't be tough but this is rock bottom here and now. We aren't going to have the years at last in the league. Too much young talent already in play. Finish last, finish near bottom, not much difference. I'm thinking the better part of half a decade till this team really starts to compete in any serious way, and yes, I hope I am wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 We have clinched last place. The only way the next 2-3 years can be part of rock bottom is if we finish last. That won't happen. Remember, 25th is better than this. You're splitting hairs here, my friend. If the Sabres are in the bottom 4 or 5 for the next few years it will feel like we are mired in "rock bottom." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 You're splitting hairs here, my friend. If the Sabres are in the bottom 4 or 5 for the next few years it will feel like we are mired in "rock bottom." Yes! Like the Islanders are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 You're splitting hairs here, my friend. If the Sabres are in the bottom 4 or 5 for the next few years it will feel like we are mired in "rock bottom." That's my concern. This could be Edmonton 2.0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 That's my concern. This could be Edmonton 2.0. Edmonton has lacked goaltending, defensemen, 3-4 fourth liners, and size. Tim Murray will not make the same mistakes as the Oil have in the last several years and look and beyond that look at what/who the Sabres have in the pipeline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppy22 Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 As long as I see progress I am not concerned. As of now I see progress in Larsson's game. I see progress in Girgensons game all year long. Ristolainen looks better... What I hope now is that the Amerks make the playoffs so that Grigorenko,Larsson,Adam,Ristolainen and all the other guys get a chance to make a run in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) That's my concern. This could be Edmonton 2.0. Or, looking back 20+ years or so, Quebec 2.0, San Jose 2.0, Ottawa 2.0, Boston 2.0, Atlanta 2.0, Islanders 2.0, St. Louis 2.0, Philadelphia 2.0, Tampa 2.0, Islanders 2.0 again and so on. The vast majority of teams that finish last overall don't win Cups within, say, five years. If anything, Edmonton shouldn't be discounted yet. They only started tanking four years ago. People around here seem to be willing to at least give the Sabres that long. Edited April 5, 2014 by PASabreFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 You're splitting hairs here, my friend. If the Sabres are in the bottom 4 or 5 for the next few years it will feel like we are mired in "rock bottom." Not splitting nothing. "Rock Bottom" is the superlative. There can be only one. We could ba bad, even terrible, but the roster will never be as terribly bad as this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 Not splitting nothing. "Rock Bottom" is the superlative. There can be only one. We could ba bad, even terrible, but the roster will never be as terribly bad as this. We haven't seen next year's team yet. It could be worse. It really could be. Next year there won't be Miller or Vanek or maybe even Ehrhoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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