Sabres better off than I thought....

[CallawaySabres]

With the youth already in the system, the draft picks in waiting, along with what seems to be a capable GM and coach, I believe the Sabres are far better off than many teams out there. I would rather be in Buffalo's position over any of those teams below and in a year or 2, that list will hopefully grow quite a bit. The darkest days are behind folks, I have no doubt about that. Can you imagine if Grigorenko actually pans out? It's fun to at least think about after this draft........

 

Toronto

Ottawa

Florida

Carolina

Islanders

Winnipeg

Nashville

Vancouver

Calgary

Edmonton

Edited April 2, 2014 by CallawaySabres

[Claude_Verret]

Agreed, the decision one year ago to tank and staying the course looks, at this point, to have been a very wise one indeed.

[inkman]

Agreed, the decision one year ago to tank and staying the course looks, at this point, to have been a very wise one indeed.

Minus the fact that they should already have Nathan McKininnen

[HopefulFuture]

I wouldn't go so far as to say the darkest days are behind us, were at the low point though. It's all going to come down to the pipeline and next 2 draft class picks. Can they form the necessary chemistry along with translating their individual skill sets to the pro level?

 

Time will bare the answer out, but the corner they need to turn is on sight.

[qwksndmonster]

Minus the fact that they should already have Nathan McKininnen

Darcy couldn't even tank right. "I'll just sell off our best players 2 a year instead of all at once so in 3 years we'll be finishing our slow decent to get a top pick."

[SabresBillsFan]

Minus the fact that they should already have Nathan McKininnen

 

I agree. Those meaningless runs late in the season sealed our crappy pick.

[Doohickie]

Can they form the necessary chemistry along with translating their individual skill sets to the pro level?

 

Two words: Ted. Nolan.

[SabresBillsFan]

I wouldn't go so far as to say the darkest days are behind us, were at the low point though. It's all going to come down to the pipeline and next 2 draft class picks. Can they form the necessary chemistry along with translating their individual skill sets to the pro level?

 

Time will bare the answer out, but the corner they need to turn is on sight.

 

I agree I wouldn't go that far just yet saying we are better off than these other teams. I'm not sold on some of the players we picked the previous drafts. Grigo and Armia seem to have potential but I don't see Grigo in the top 6 because of his skating. And Armia it's too early to tell.

[IKnowPhysics]

One more bad year of being good at being bad. Then we get bad at being good, and end up bad, which is expected. And although we'll be worse than better that second year, we'll be better than worse. Which isn't good, but it's not bad. Then from there, I expect better and better not worse and worse, or else it'll be really really bad and no good at all.

[dudacek]

Grigo is a year younger than Armia and has played in the NHL. Armia has been a mediocre AHL rookie.

 

[CallawaySabres]

I wouldn't go so far as to say the darkest days are behind us, were at the low point though. It's all going to come down to the pipeline and next 2 draft class picks. Can they form the necessary chemistry along with translating their individual skill sets to the pro level?

 

Time will bare the answer out, but the corner they need to turn is on sight.

 

I can say with much confidence that in my lifetime, I will never see a more incompetent lineup than the one I see now. To me, that means the darkest days are DEFINITELY behind us. Not having Miller and Vanek in limbo anymore combined with players like Leino, McBain, Ellis and D'agostini being gone, yes - darkest days behind. They may not be good next year but at least we can watch the future of this team grow together while adding some pieces.

[nfreeman]

Well, I'd like to feel confident that the Sabres have hit bottom and are now ascendant, but we shouldn't kid ourselves that that would involve relying on a number of key assumptions:

 

1. Tim Murray will do a good job in identifying talent.

 

2. A sufficient number of the prospects already in the system (Risto, Nikita, Pysyk, Rudy, McCabe, Compher, Fasching, Carrier, Deslauriers, Armia, Griggy, Zemgus, Baptiste, etc.) will develop into good NHL players.

 

3. A sufficient number of the Sabres' draft picks in 2014 and 2015 develop into good NHL players.

 

4. Continued improvement -- and no backsliding -- from Myers.

 

5. Getting good goaltending out of Enroth/Neuvirth/one of the kids.

 

Based on what we know -- not what we think/hope -- each of those 5 assumptions could prove out, or each of them could fail.

 

I also think that TM needs to get some better players in here this summer, because another season like this one is likely to negatively affect factors 2 - 5 above.

[Claude_Verret]

Minus the fact that they should already have Nathan McKininnen

 

I have no doubt in my mind that MacKinnon was the target when they decided to trade Pominville last year, but alas the remaining core plus castoffs had one more run to nowhere in them. Nabbing MacKinnon last year shifts the tank timeline by one full season, which is why you saw such a concerted effort to tank the right way from day one of this season.

 

Darcy couldn't even tank right. "I'll just sell off our best players 2 a year instead of all at once so in 3 years we'll be finishing our slow decent to get a top pick."

 

True, but I can't be mad at DR for the eventual Vanek return at all.

 

One more bad year of being good at being bad. Then we get bad at being good, and end up bad, which is expected. And although we'll be worse than better that second year, we'll be better than worse. Which isn't good, but it's not bad. Then from there, I expect better and better not worse and worse, or else it'll be really really bad and no good at all.

 

Bravo for so concisely capturing the mission statement of Tank Nation.

[LastPommerFan]

Well, I'd like to feel confident that the Sabres have hit bottom and are now ascendant, but we shouldn't kid ourselves that that would involve relying on a number of key assumptions:

 

1. Tim Murray will do a good job in identifying talent.

 

2. A sufficient number of the prospects already in the system (Risto, Nikita, Pysyk, Rudy, McCabe, Compher, Fasching, Carrier, Deslauriers, Armia, Griggy, Zemgus, Baptiste, etc.) will develop into good NHL players.

 

3. A sufficient number of the Sabres' draft picks in 2014 and 2015 develop into good NHL players.

 

4. Continued improvement -- and no backsliding -- from Myers.

 

5. Getting good goaltending out of Enroth/Neuvirth/one of the kids.

 

Based on what we know -- not what we think/hope -- each of those 5 assumptions could prove out, or each of them could fail.

 

I also think that TM needs to get some better players in here this summer, because another season like this one is likely to negatively affect factors 2 - 5 above.

 

all 5 of those assumptions could fail, and we could still ice a better roster than we currently have. The team has hit rock bottom.

 

Your assumptions are what is required for this team to be a good team, not a better team.

[CallawaySabres]

Top 2 draft pick (possibly 2 in the top 5) this year

Pysyk

Risto

Zadorov

Probably Grigs

 

This alone, with ZERO other additions make this team not only better, but a whole heck of a lot more fun to watch. There will be plenty of growing pains but my goodness, they could not POSSIBLY be as boring as there are right now.

 

Boring = Rock Bottom to me

[SabresBillsFan]

Top 2 draft pick (possibly 2 in the top 5) this year

Pysyk

Risto

Zadorov

Probably Grigs

 

This alone, with ZERO other additions make this team not only better, but a whole heck of a lot more fun to watch. There will be plenty of growing pains but my goodness, they could not POSSIBLY be as boring as there are right now.

 

Boring = Rock Bottom to me

 

I agree with that but you have to remember these guys ain't going to be rushed anymore. I don't think Nolan wants a team with 5 rookies on them.

[dudacek]

Top 2 draft pick (possibly 2 in the top 5) this year

Pysyk

Risto

Zadorov

Probably Grigs

 

This alone, with ZERO other additions make this team not only better, but a whole heck of a lot more fun to watch. There will be plenty of growing pains but my goodness, they could not POSSIBLY be as boring as there are right now.

 

Boring = Rock Bottom to me

 

This. We watched a good AHL team for most of the year, playing against teams that expected to beat them and played accordingly.

Watching that night after night, you couldn't help but get numb.

But reinforcements are coming.

They may not win many more games, but they will at least have nights where they look like they could.

There will be times next year when it won't feel like it, but the darkest days are over.

[LGR4GM]

I want to believe we are turning the corner but until next year starts I don't think we will know for sure. Risto, Pysyk, Myers, McCabe, Grigorenko etc... these guys will have to prove themselves at the NHL level in some way before I will say we are better off. Patience, I have been fooled once by this team and refuse to again.

[IKnowPhysics]

I want to believe we are turning the corner but until next year starts I don't think we will know for sure. Risto, Pysyk, Myers, McCabe, Grigorenko etc... these guys will have to prove themselves at the NHL level in some way before I will say we are better off. Patience, I have been fooled once by this team and refuse to again.

 

Yes. Hesitation to say "we've hit rock bottom" or "we're at a turning point" or "now we start to improve" is entirely warranted. Until we have bodies on the ice that are developed and capable of playing in this league, we're not going anywhere. There's no bottom, there's no turning, there's no improving. Not yet. And seeing as how some of the kids in the system that are supposed to help save us haven't really even begun to play and develop their pro game, it could be quite a while until we start taking real, measurable steps forward in the performance of this team. On top of that, because we're already looking forward to maximizing our 2015 1st rounder, it could easily be a long, dark winter in Sabre Nation.

 

So embrace it. Enjoy watching the kids grow up. Know every loss could net us better players.

 

Or don't. Stew about the team. Get really miserable.

[TrueBlueGED]

Yes. Hesitation to say "we've hit rock bottom" or "we're at a turning point" or "now we start to improve" is entirely warranted. Until we have bodies on the ice that are developed and capable of playing in this league, we're not going anywhere. There's no bottom, there's no turning, there's no improving. Not yet. And seeing as how some of the kids in the system that are supposed to help save us haven't really even begun to play and develop their pro game, it could be quite a while until we start taking real, measurable steps forward in the performance of this team. On top of that, because we're already looking forward to maximizing our 2015 1st rounder, it could easily be a long, dark winter in Sabre Nation.

 

So embrace it. Enjoy watching the kids grow up. Know every loss could net us better players.

 

Or don't. Stew about the team. Get really miserable.

 

Some optimists were able to talk themselves into believing this was a fringe playoff team. I'd like to think some of the same optimists will be able to talk themselves into the idea that this year or next we're going to draft Azor Ahai reborn to end the long winter!

[nfreeman]

Top 2 draft pick (possibly 2 in the top 5) this year

Pysyk

Risto

Zadorov

Probably Grigs

 

This alone, with ZERO other additions make this team not only better, but a whole heck of a lot more fun to watch. There will be plenty of growing pains but my goodness, they could not POSSIBLY be as boring as there are right now.

 

Boring = Rock Bottom to me

 

I agree on the boring part, but I think you are expecting too much from the kids next year.

 

There is NFW that Griggy is in Buffalo next year for more than a cup of coffee.

 

I would also expect the top draft choice to go back to juniors next year.

 

And I don't think more than 1 of Risto, Pysyk and Nikita will be in Buffalo for a majority of the season next year.

 

I want to believe we are turning the corner but until next year starts I don't think we will know for sure. Risto, Pysyk, Myers, McCabe, Grigorenko etc... these guys will have to prove themselves at the NHL level in some way before I will say we are better off. Patience, I have been fooled once by this team and refuse to again.

Yes. Hesitation to say "we've hit rock bottom" or "we're at a turning point" or "now we start to improve" is entirely warranted. Until we have bodies on the ice that are developed and capable of playing in this league, we're not going anywhere. There's no bottom, there's no turning, there's no improving. Not yet. And seeing as how some of the kids in the system that are supposed to help save us haven't really even begun to play and develop their pro game, it could be quite a while until we start taking real, measurable steps forward in the performance of this team. On top of that, because we're already looking forward to maximizing our 2015 1st rounder, it could easily be a long, dark winter in Sabre Nation.

 

So embrace it. Enjoy watching the kids grow up. Know every loss could net us better players.

 

Or don't. Stew about the team. Get really miserable.

 

These.

[Bob Malooga]

Some of these teams have a hell of a prospect pool that certainly compares to Buffalo's...and a couple have much more!

(Disclaimer: Each team's prospects are not listed in any specific order.)

 

Panthers - Huberdeau, Barkov, Pirri, Gudbranson, Bjugstad, Kulikov, Robak, Shore, Howden, Trocheck, Petrovic, McCoshen, Matheson, Olson, Clapperton.

 

Oilers - Hall, Ebele, Nugent-Hopkins, Yakupov, Schultz, Nurse, Klefbom, Marincin, Musil, Lander, Slepysev, Brossoit.

 

Calgary - Monahan, Gaudreau, Granlund, Backlund, Galiardi, Byron, Hanowski, Colborne, Baertschi, Reinhart, Knight, Poirier, Agostino, Brodie, Klimchuk, Kanzig, Olivier-Roy, Jankowski, Bouma, Aliu, Gillies.

 

NYI - Tavares, Okposo, Grabner, Strome, Lee, Reinhart, Pulock, Martin, Bailey, Halmo, Hamonic, Nelson, Donovan, Williams, McAdam, Cizikas, Pokka, Mayfield, Ullstrom, Poulin, Nilsson.

 

Ottawa - Karlsson, Zibanejad, Turris, Lazar, Puempel, Hoffman, Pageau, Stone, Gryba, Smith, Grant, Lehner, Ceci, Hogberg, Dunn, Karlsson, Borowiecki, Wiercioch,.

 

Toronto - Bernier, Van-Riemsdyk, Kadri, Reilly, Leivo, Ashton, McKegg, Gauthier, Finn, Percy, Verhaeghe, Herzog, Gibson.

 

Carolina - Skinner, Stall, Faulk, Lindholm, Murray, Bowman, Nash, Loktionov, McGinn, Biega, Rask, DiGiuseppe, Pesce, Tolchinsky.

 

Winnipeg - Kane, Scheifele, Trouba, Bogosian, Burmistrov, Peluso, Ellebe, Tangradi, Postma, Halischuk, O'Dell, Wright, Hutchinson, Morrisey, Petan, Lowry, Comrie, Hellebuyck, Kasdorf, Samuels-Thomas, Copp, Stoykewych.

 

Nashville - Jones, Forsberg, Del Zotto, Josi, Diaby, Jarnkrok, Sissons, Girard, Veilleux, Aberg, Watson, Beck, Ekholm, Wilson, Smith, Bourque, Spaling.

 

Vancouver - Markstrom, Lack, Kassian, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Jensen, Schroeder, Gaunce, Corrado, Matthias, Labate, Hutton, Subban, Blain, Erickson, Dalpe, Welsh, Weber, Tanev, Stanton, Zalewski.

 

 

Ok, now...these are not all "prospects" by definition, but every one of them is 25 years of age or younger. A couple of teams are probably on par with the Sabres, but quite a few have at least one prospect who is better than anything the Sabres have. On top of that, a few of them have an elite goaltending prospect, as well as already established players who are top-line all-stars. The Sabres have neither of those things. So, I would not say we are much further ahead of any of these teams, if any of them at all. I think every one of those teams have at least one prospect, that is better than anything the Sabres have.

 

I understand we have prospects who could turn out to be great players, but they have nobody around them like these teams do...that is my point, as well as the fact that some of these other players were drafted after Buffalo's pick...and they rate higher than our prospects we drafted.

 

I just wouldn't automatically say we are ahead of those teams...because knowing quite a few of those prospects, from those teams...those teams listed above have quite a promising future if everything goes as planned, and these kids pan out with the right coaching/chemistry.

 

(I REALLY like what Calgary is doing.)

Edited April 2, 2014 by Bob Malooga

[WildCard]

I few of those aren't prospects though: Tavares, Nugent-Hopkins, Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, Shultz, Kassian, Skinner, Okposo, Karlsson, Kadri....there's too many to keep listing. I think there's a difference between prospects and a core of players.

 

I read your definition of prospects, but I disagree that these teams are better off than the Sabres even if you take them into account. Most of them have their best prospects already on the ice, and they haven't produced. Vancouver is old, and they are basically where the Sabres were two seasons ago; rebuild hasn'tquite stared yet, and it can't with Kessler and the Sedins there, but it will very soon. If they don't make the playoffs within the next two-three season, I expect that core to be imploded and shipped off

 

The Oilers have had that core for a few seasons now, and there hasn't been any improvement. I expect nothing from Yakupov, probably a lesser Hossa at best. Hall is good, and so is Eberle and RNH, but they have no d-men, and just now got a decent goalie. They might, might, be in line for a playoff spot next year, but that depends on if they get Ekblad, how good he is, and what they do in the offseason.

 

Winnipeg: If your most promising player is a punk winger like Evander Kane, then you're in trouble (see the Capitals)

 

Nashville; They're a good team, but when a d-man leads your team in goals, that's never a good sign. IMHO, the Preds lost out a few seasons ago when they failed to go far with Suter, Goose, and Weber. I don't think they'll be that good again for awhile, not with how good and young the rest of the west is.

 

Calgary: I'll admit I don't know much about them

 

NYI: I'll be more impressed if Okposo can repeat this performance. They're already missing out on what is increasingly likely a top 5 pick, add that to the ownership issues and their terrible defense and goal-tending I'd be really surprised if the Islanders aren't bad-mediocre for the next three seasons. I still think Tavares leaves that team too

Edited April 2, 2014 by WildCard

[Johnny DangerFace]

Some of these teams have a hell of a prospect pool that certainly compares to Buffalo's...and a couple have much more!

(Disclaimer: Each team's prospects are not listed in any specific order.)

 

Panthers - Huberdeau, Barkov, Pirri, Gudbranson, Bjugstad, Kulikov, Robak, Shore, Howden, Trocheck, Petrovic, McCoshen, Matheson, Olson, Clapperton.

 

Oilers - Hall, Ebele, Nugent-Hopkins, Yakupov, Schultz, Nurse, Klefbom, Marincin, Musil, Lander, Slepysev, Brossoit.

 

Calgary - Monahan, Gaudreau, Granlund, Backlund, Galiardi, Byron, Hanowski, Colborne, Baertschi, Reinhart, Knight, Poirier, Agostino, Brodie, Klimchuk, Kanzig, Olivier-Roy, Jankowski, Bouma, Aliu, Gillies.

 

NYI - Tavares, Okposo, Grabner, Strome, Lee, Reinhart, Pulock, Martin, Bailey, Halmo, Hamonic, Nelson, Donovan, Williams, McAdam, Cizikas, Pokka, Mayfield, Ullstrom, Poulin, Nilsson.

 

Ottawa - Karlsson, Zibanejad, Turris, Lazar, Puempel, Hoffman, Pageau, Stone, Gryba, Smith, Grant, Lehner, Ceci, Hogberg, Dunn, Karlsson, Borowiecki, Wiercioch,.

 

Toronto - Bernier, Van-Riemsdyk, Kadri, Reilly, Leivo, Ashton, McKegg, Gauthier, Finn, Percy, Verhaeghe, Herzog, Gibson.

 

Carolina - Skinner, Stall, Faulk, Lindholm, Murray, Bowman, Nash, Loktionov, McGinn, Biega, Rask, DiGiuseppe, Pesce, Tolchinsky.

 

Winnipeg - Kane, Scheifele, Trouba, Bogosian, Burmistrov, Peluso, Ellebe, Tangradi, Postma, Halischuk, O'Dell, Wright, Hutchinson, Morrisey, Petan, Lowry, Comrie, Hellebuyck, Kasdorf, Samuels-Thomas, Copp, Stoykewych.

 

Nashville - Jones, Forsberg, Del Zotto, Josi, Diaby, Jarnkrok, Sissons, Girard, Veilleux, Aberg, Watson, Beck, Ekholm, Wilson, Smith, Bourque, Spaling.

 

Vancouver - Markstrom, Lack, Kassian, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Jensen, Schroeder, Gaunce, Corrado, Matthias, Labate, Hutton, Subban, Blain, Erickson, Dalpe, Welsh, Weber, Tanev, Stanton, Zalewski.

 

 

Ok, now...these are not all "prospects" by definition, but every one of them is 25 years of age or younger. A couple of teams are probably on par with the Sabres, but quite a few have at least one prospect who is better than anything the Sabres have. On top of that, a few of them have an elite goaltending prospect, as well as already established players who are top-line all-stars. The Sabres have neither of those things. So, I would not say we are much further ahead of any of these teams, if any of them at all. I think every one of those teams have at least one prospect, that is better than anything the Sabres have.

 

I understand we have prospects who could turn out to be great players, but they have nobody around them like these teams do...that is my point, as well as the fact that some of these other players were drafted after Buffalo's pick...and they rate higher than our prospects we drafted.

 

I just wouldn't automatically say we are ahead of those teams...because knowing quite a few of those prospects, from those teams...those teams listed above have quite a promising future if everything goes as planned, and these kids pan out with the right coaching/chemistry.

 

(I REALLY like what Calgary is doing.)

 

Most of those players wouldn't meet anyone's definition of a prospect (some of those players are in tl their 5th nhl season...). Sabres definitely have a top 3 prospect pool, arguably the best.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Numark

[Two or less]

Minus the fact that they should already have Nathan McKininnen

 

I guess. But you can go through every draft and "re-draft". He's a heck of a player, but if we drafted him, we'd miss out on Risto, and the following year wouldn't have finished dead last and missed out on Ekblad, and next thing you know is we're creeping into the next Edmonton Oilers.

 

 

Darcy couldn't even tank right. "I'll just sell off our best players 2 a year instead of all at once so in 3 years we'll be finishing our slow decent to get a top pick."

 

He got a first rd pick for Thomas Vanek. Among many other big pieces of the future puzzle. Not a fan of the Darcy regime, but he has set Murray up nicely.

 

Most of those players wouldn't meet anyone's definition of a prospect (some of those players are in tl their 5th nhl season...). Sabres definitely have a top 3 prospect pool, arguably the best.

 

I agree. And if they are not the best, the fact of having 3-4 first round picks next two drafts surely will put them over the top and even separate themselves from the 2nd best pool.