Zach Benson: how good will he be this year?

[dudacek]

Fantastic tape of the Carnival Kid playing the game as it was meant to be played.

Winning battles, going to the dirty areas, making smart passes and working his ass off.

 

What are people's expectations for #9 this year?

Edited 22 hours ago by dudacek

[Pimlach]

I picked the first option.   I think he is going to be a good player.  

[oddoublee]

Like the idea for the poll...but feel like it's missing an option...

He's a future strong top 6 player. I still think he needs a little more marinating. 

14 goals and 18 assists. 

He's still a kid. 

[Archie Lee]

I love the kid. I think he can and will be an effective top 6 player this year. I think fans who look at his point total and don’t see a top 6 player, are under the false impression that playoff teams have 1st lines of 70+ point players and 2nd lines of 60+ point players, etc., when this is just not the case. If Benson plays the entire year on a line with Thompson or Tuch and gets some PP time, he will get 40 points at minimum and that combined with his defensive acumen and the grit and energy he brings will make him a very good top 6 player. I also think that his skating and, to a lesser degree, his size, do represent legitimate issues and probably cap his ceiling below that of a true 1st line, star calibre player. But, so what?  

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I love the kid. I think he can and will be an effective top 6 player this year. I think fans who look at his point total and don’t see a top 6 player, are under the false impression that playoff teams have 1st lines of 70+ point players and 2nd lines of 60+ point players, etc., when this is just not the case. If Benson plays the entire year on a line with Thompson or Tuch and gets some PP time, he will get 40 points at minimum and that combined with his defensive acumen and the grit and energy he brings will make him a very good top 6 player. I also think that his skating and, to a lesser degree, his size, do represent legitimate issues and probably cap his ceiling below that of a true 1st line, star calibre player. But, so what?  

I can’t recall a game last year where I considered him a liability. He’s an effort player who didn’t coast no matter what the situation was. It’s going to be interesting to see if he comes into camp bulkier and stronger.

[shrader]

Calder candidate

[Thorny]

Not really in love with the poll options. Probably closest to 1, but it’s not something I necessarily expect to unfold this season 

that the sabres are counting on it necessarily, for success, on that sort of time frame, when he’s 19 or whatever isn’t a commentary on being a beaten down fan if one finds difficulty in predicting it: it’s a commentary on the fact it’s an objective gamble 

[7+6=13]

This young man just plays the game right.  The best way I know how to support that statement is to take a dig at myself.  I know so little about hockey "fundamentals" or how to look at the off puck things or another words, seeing with my eyes that a player has high hockey IQ.

Even I see it with Benson.

I believe it's unlikely at this point that he doesn't become good.  It would have to be injury driven, IMO, or something like that.  When he gets more grow man strength, I think he's got a shot at being very good.

[Archie Lee]

20 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Not really in love with the poll options. Probably closest to 1, but it’s not something I necessarily expect to unfold this season 

that the sabres are counting on it necessarily, for success, on that sort of time frame, when he’s 19 or whatever isn’t a commentary on being a beaten down fan if one finds difficulty in predicting it: it’s a commentary on the fact it’s an objective gamble 

I do think the Sabres should trade for a veteran player or two and that it would increase their chances of making the playoffs if they made the right trade(s). I would trade Kulich and Quinn for Rakell and Rust without a 2nd thought , as an example.  

There was no two part question here though. The question is how good do you think Benson will be this year, not how good do you think Benson will be this year and what does that mean to the Sabres chances of making the playoffs if they don’t make any additional roster moves? If it had been the two part question, I would have added to my praise of Benson that as good as I think he is, it won’t be nearly enough to help the Sabres be a playoff team. 

Edited 21 hours ago by Archie Lee

[K-9]

He plays the game the right way so it largely depends on his line mates. Also depends on any added strength over the offseason. 

[Porous Five Hole]

The important thing about understanding his value is equating intangibles against points.  Benson is not afraid of contact and the front of the net. He’s a real 🍆 on the ice and is the definition of hard to play against despite being short.  
 

So what is the measuring stick for him? If it’s points, the soon to be 21 year old will underwhelm you next season.  If it’s defensively elite and hard to play against, then he’s top six ALL DAY.  

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

I do think the Sabres should trade for a veteran player or two and that it would increase their chances of making the playoffs if they made the right trade(s). I would trade Kulich and Quinn for Rakell and Rust without a 2nd thought , as an example.  

There was no two part question here though. The question is how good do you think Benson will be this year, not how good do you think Benson will be this year and what does that mean to the Sabres chances of making the playoffs if they don’t make any additional roster moves? If it had been the two part question, I would have added to my praise of Benson that as good as I think he is, it won’t be nearly enough to help the Sabres be a playoff team. 

Ya your take is fine, I just disagreed with the bit where you said you expect Benson to be a “very good” top 6 player with 40 points minimum etc. To me a “very good” top 6er is a borderline first liner and I don’t feel comfortable labeling Benson as that yes, even if he has the skills to one day be it 

Maybe I’m crazy but if the goal is a playoff team, not even the standard, not even the expectation given missing 14 years, just the goal: all 3 of my first liners are bonafide first liners, not 2 guys who are and 1 who may be because of them 

I’m sure there will be an excellent follow up post from someone explaining to me why benson is actually better than the 2nd LWer on every team to make the playoffs in the last decade, and how no one on the team is actually out of place besides the goalie or something. But ya to me there never seem to be enough purported holes and disadvantages to add up to the record, with the amount that get discarded over the course of your average summer 

probably the result of a multitude of coin-flips spread throughout the roster, where they can conceivably all individually go right, but the combination of them all doing so mathematically very unlikely 

Edited 19 hours ago by Thorny

[steveoath]

We need more Bensons. 

[Weave]

Just now, steveoath said:

We need more veteran Bensons. 

Fixed.

[dudacek]

27 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ya your take is fine, I just disagreed with the bit where you said you expect Benson to be a “very good” top 6 player with 40 points minimum etc. To me a “very good” top 6er is a borderline first liner and I don’t feel comfortable labeling Benson as that yes, even if he has the skills to one day be it 

Maybe I’m crazy but if the goal is a playoff team, not even the standard, not even the expectation given missing 14 years, just the goal: all 3 of my first liners are bonafide first liners, not 2 guys who are and 1 who may be because of them 

I’m sure there will be an excellent follow up post from someone explaining to me why benson is actually better than the 2nd LWer on every team to make the playoffs in the last decade, and how no one on the team is actually out of place besides the goalie or something. But ya to me there never seem to be enough purported holes and disadvantages to add up to the record, with the amount that get discarded over the course of your average summer 

probably the result of a multitude of coin-flips spread throughout the roster, where they can conceivably all individually go right, but the combination of them all doing so mathematically very unlikely 

Not disagreeing with your underlying point, but it reminded me of something I do disagree with that's become a bit of a summertime meme.

If:

• UPL plays like a legitimate starter
• Lyon plays provides 30+ good games
• Norris stays healthy
• Greenway stays healthy
• Benson takes a step
• Quinn takes a step
• Kulich takes a step
• Power takes a step
• Kesselring is what he's supposed to be
• they replace Peterka's offence
• they play better team defence
• and they fix their special teams

they might make the playoffs.

No, none of those things happened and they missed the playoffs by 12 points. They need some of those things to happen to give them a chance to make the playoffs. Ottawa didn't jump from 78 points to 97 by dramatically overhauling the roster. They made one big move (Ullmark), a few support pieces and the players played better, collectively. That's typically how it works in the NHL.

If all those things above happen the Sabres will be this year's Washington Capitals. 

[Doohickie]

Hopium springs eternal.

[Thorny]

58 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Not disagreeing with your underlying point, but it reminded me of something I do disagree with that's become a bit of a summertime meme.

If:

• UPL plays like a legitimate starter
• Lyon plays provides 30+ good games
• Norris stays healthy
• Greenway stays healthy
• Benson takes a step
• Quinn takes a step
• Kulich takes a step
• Power takes a step
• Kesselring is what he's supposed to be
• they replace Peterka's offence
• they play better team defence
• and they fix their special teams

they might make the playoffs.

No, none of those things happened and they missed the playoffs by 12 points. They need some of those things to happen to give them a chance to make the playoffs. Ottawa didn't jump from 78 points to 97 by dramatically overhauling the roster. They made one big move (Ullmark), a few support pieces and the players played better, collectively. That's typically how it works in the NHL.

If all those things above happen the Sabres will be this year's Washington Capitals. 

The sabres thinking they can address the roster in “typical” fashion remains a massive problem. I’ve said this countless times 

The sabres have needed a defibrillator for over 5 years. 

You can’t put yourself in a 14 year hole, disenfranchise your entire roster and fanbase over the last 5 years specifically, and pretend “a couple small “savvy” moves” are all the team needs. I admire the fact of how much of an incredible outlier you are in how much you expect of them, but you almost professionally remove context from your thinking as a choice; I just happen to do the opposite. No right or wrong there just stylistic.

the team that’s been a drastic failure needs a drastic effort. You fall more along the lines of “well, just do what some of the other teams have done”. it doesn’t work like that imo: the solution needs to be sabres relative not relative to teams we’ve already showed we have failed to replicate 

“Well we more less did what Ottawa did and it doesn’t always fail when that happens” is just so woefully short to the point of insulting 

raise your expectations. We should be expecting nothing less than a roster that RIGHT now looks like a SAFE, SAFE bet to make the playoffs 

you were posting 2 years ago about how “come on people, don’t be afraid to expect something now!” The moves we’ve made this offseason are insultingly laughable through the prism of last offseason, if I had told you this is what they’d do after finishing with 70 something points 

you know that 

Edited 17 hours ago by Thorny

[PerreaultForever]

I like Benson, but they have placed him in a spot too high on a roster and expect too much too soon. Some people see him there and say he's not good enough, forgetting his age and how he shouldn't even be there yet. Others expect him to be NHL top 6 level at his age and that too is expecting too much too soon. I wish we had a roster that had enough veterans on it that we could step him back to third line and let him develop, but sadly, we do not. 

[SABRES 0311]

If we’re talking about 23-25 year old Benson I’d go with option 1.

[pi2000]

He's not a top 6 winger on a playoff team and he'll never eclipse 65 points in a season.

[SABRES 0311]

Sabres fans: this team needs to get older.

Also Sabres fans: Benson should be in the top six.

Sabres fans: we need to replace JJ’s scoring.

Also Sabres fans: Benson should be in the top six.

[LGR4GM]

19 hours ago, oddoublee said:

Like the idea for the poll...but feel like it's missing an option...

He's a future strong top 6 player. I still think he needs a little more marinating. 

14 goals and 18 assists. 

He's still a kid. 

I don't see how Benson will have only 18 assists this year. He'll have more because he won't be stuck with shooting impaired players. 

[LGR4GM]

5 hours ago, pi2000 said:

He's not a top 6 winger on a playoff team and he'll never eclipse 65 points in a season.

Yikes. Might be the worst take in the thread. 

Benson will be about a 16g, 30a player this season and provide his excellent 2way play throughout. 

16 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

The important thing about understanding his value is equating intangibles against points.  Benson is not afraid of contact and the front of the net. He’s a real 🍆 on the ice and is the definition of hard to play against despite being short.  
 

So what is the measuring stick for him? If it’s points, the soon to be 21 year old will underwhelm you next season.  If it’s defensively elite and hard to play against, then he’s top six ALL DAY.  

Soon to be? Benson won't be 21 until May.

[LGR4GM]

Sabrespace: we need more guys tough to play against, who play the game the right way, are gritty, go to the tough areas. 

Also Sabrespace: well no not like Benson cuz he's short or something and only had 28pts as a 19yr old playing with a center who couldn't hit water if he fell off the titanic. 

The truth: if Zach Benson was 6' tall and this was his rookie year, expectations would be sky high. The crowd that ***** most about playing the right way totally discounts Benson for doing that. The guy is elite defensively, already, today. Zach Benson is going to be an elite nhl playmaker sooner rather than later. The big jump in production is coming. Will it be this year? Maybe not but he's still a top 6 forward without it. 

[Pimlach]

16 hours ago, dudacek said:

Not disagreeing with your underlying point, but it reminded me of something I do disagree with that's become a bit of a summertime meme.

If:

• UPL plays like a legitimate starter
• Lyon plays provides 30+ good games
• Norris stays healthy
• Greenway stays healthy
• Benson takes a step
• Quinn takes a step
• Kulich takes a step
• Power takes a step
• Kesselring is what he's supposed to be
• they replace Peterka's offence
• they play better team defence
• and they fix their special teams

they might make the playoffs.

No, none of those things happened and they missed the playoffs by 12 points. They need some of those things to happen to give them a chance to make the playoffs. Ottawa didn't jump from 78 points to 97 by dramatically overhauling the roster. They made one big move (Ullmark), a few support pieces and the players played better, collectively. That's typically how it works in the NHL.

If all those things above happen the Sabres will be this year's Washington Capitals. 

Besides improved goaltending and team defense you missed the impact that Thompson, Dahlin and Tuch have. They will wear the letters and they need bring consistent star power and leadership.  They have to put the team on their backs.  No more big losing streaks.