Sabres Trade JJ Peterka to Utah for Defenseman Michael Kesselring and Forward Josh Doan

[shrader]

I do think that’s it’s pretty clear that they are moving away from that team that looks the other way while Thompson and Dahlin get mugged. The question is just how many goals need to be removed from the scoresheet to accomplish that. 

[K012010]

I commented on pretty frequently in the game threads about how JJ was on the ice and often involved in terrible goals against because of his laziness.

It may have gotten more pronounced toward the end of the year where he had already given up, but I’ve noticed it the whole time he’s been a player here. He’s had a noticeable entitlement to be honest. Like he’s too good to even attempt to be a two-way player. Everybody’s focusing on the offensive potential, but the guy has been a liability on the ice the entire time he’s been here. I want a team that plays like a team like Florida not a bunch of entitled first round picks.

I would make the argument that he’s genuinely part of the problem and I don’t really care that he’s gone.

Might not be the best argument, but it’s my argument. 

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

They made the trade under the knowledge they were taking a hit on return to save money. They don’t believe we got fair value - they are just hoping the value is close enough they can get lucky. Awful and insulting team building practices to the fans. If it works out it’s probably a negative on the macro: they’ll be encouraged to think they can further get away with cost cutting maneuvers 

Possibly.

Please bookmark this one and wave it in my face next week.

And/or again in December.

[Drag0nDan]

Just now, Thorny said:

It doesn’t matter. They made the trade under the knowledge they were taking a hit on return to save money. They don’t believe we got fair value - they are just hoping the value is close enough they can get lucky. Awful and insulting team building practices to the fans. If it works out it’s probably a negative on the macro: they’ll be encouraged to think they can further get away with cost cutting maneuvers 

Tell yourself whatever you want. That you are just clinging to hope. That’s what they want. I’m guilty of it too. I’m a hypocrite. We know they are counting on us ignoring the fact their goal is saving. I am doing my utmost to break this habit 

Last year they saved money and didn't do anything with the savings.  There's savings here, but you really can't strike out in free agency again.  

[LGR4GM]

What happens if Doan gives us a 15g 25a season and Peterka puts up a 25g, 25a season?

[K012010]

3 minutes ago, shrader said:

I do think that’s it’s pretty clear that they are moving away from that team that looks the other way while Thompson and Dahlin get mugged. The question is just how many goals need to be removed from the scoresheet to accomplish that. 

I honestly have never liked the core of young players we’ve had and have been skeptical of what they’re capable of as a unit. I had hope around the 2023 season but I knew we still needed several other players that could bring what’s needed especially come playoff time.

These are soft, entitled, young dudes who got paid way too early. And we still have the ones that I actually like like Thompson and Rasmus.

I honestly did not like JJ and I watched him specifically the last couple years anytime he was on the ice and he was the laziest player I’ve ever seen

[French Collection]

Just now, Thorny said:

It doesn’t matter. They made the trade under the knowledge they were taking a hit on return to save money. They don’t believe we got fair value - they are just hoping the value is close enough they can get lucky. Awful and insulting team building practices to the fans. If it works out it’s probably a negative on the macro: they’ll be encouraged to think they can further get away with cost cutting maneuvers 

Tell yourself whatever you want. That you are just clinging to hope. That’s what they want. I’m guilty of it too. I’m a hypocrite. We know they are counting on us ignoring the fact their goal is saving 

Their track record is not using available cap space to upgrade the team. That has been a major issue and a pet peeve of mine.

I am not holding my breath but there may be UFAs to sign and maybe Jarmo engineers a move for Robertson or another expensive top six forward.

The opening night roster and record after 20 or so games will be heavily scrutinized.

[klos1963]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

What happens if Doan gives us a 15g 25a season and Peterka puts up a 25g, 25a season?

Did JJ miss a bunch of games?

It would be a career year for Doan.

[Carmel Corn]

3 minutes ago, shrader said:

I do think that’s it’s pretty clear that they are moving away from that team that looks the other way while Thompson and Dahlin get mugged. The question is just how many goals need to be removed from the scoresheet to accomplish that. 

I hope this is true...a team that doesn't have each other's back is a bad stink that haunts this franchise like no other. 

[LGR4GM]

Just now, klos1963 said:

Did JJ miss a bunch of games?

It would be a career year for Doan.

Nope and Doan only played 51 games so going with 15g in 82 isn't too crazy. 

[Thorny]

10 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Possibly.

Please bookmark this one and wave it in my face next week.

And/or again in December.

No I’m tired of needing to be this message board person. I don’t like allowing them to make me so upset and I don’t like having to constantly try and take away the satisfaction you DO get from the team that I jealously cannot. I’m not sure I even want to take it away anymore: I don’t think better is coming. sometimes staying in the matrix is the right call 

- - - 

Mostly just done being lied to 

Edited 6 hours ago by Thorny

[dudacek]

10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

What happens if Doan gives us a 15g 25a season and Peterka puts up a 25g, 25a season?

I'm hesitant to look too close at the roster because I think there are a couple more moves coming.

But I can see a world where Doan can be a clear 3rd-line upgrade on last year's Jack Quinn in terms of the type of player you want in that role.

The question becomes how capable is Quinn of replacing Peterka if given Peterka's role?

Probably moot, but even after last year, I don't consider JJ to be a much better player than Jack.

 

Edited 6 hours ago by dudacek

[Demoted]

10 hours ago, Brawndo said:

 

*Bets $10 on Utah to win Stanley Cup. 

Edited 6 hours ago by Demoted

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Demoted said:

*Bets $10 on Utah to win Eyanley Cup. 

What's the Eyanley cup?

[K012010]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

I'm hesitant to look to close at the roster because I think there are a couple more moves coming.

But I can see a world where Doan can be a clear 3rd-line upgrade on Jack Quinn in terms of the type of player you want in that role.

The question becomes how capable is Quinn of replacing Peterka if given Peterka's role?

Probably moot, but even after last year, I don't consider JJ to be a much better player than Jack.

 

Get Quinn tf off this team also. Another liability as a two-way player and the guy looks like ***** Bambi now. Can’t stay on his feet.

Another soft first rounder that can’t come close to living up to the expectations. Sell him on his high offensive potential just like JJ.

Just now, LGR4GM said:

What's the Eyanley cup?

The only cup Sabres are ever gonna win

jk…

[Flashsabre]

I wish Adams was fired yesterday but I don’t look at this trade as the train wreck some people are.

I really like Kesselring and Doan plays a style this team desperately needs.

To me they need to get a legit centre and slide Kulich over to the wing where I think he can be the new JJ.

Please don’t start the year with UPL-Levi. I desperately want an upgrade in net.

[SabreFinn]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

What happens if Doan gives us a 15g 25a season and Peterka puts up a 25g, 25a season?

It is not unrealistic at all. At the end of next season we will have the correct answer. Hard to tell about Doan, but Peterka probably will play on their second line and those points are about what I expect from him there.

[JP51]

13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

What happens if Doan gives us a 15g 25a season and Peterka puts up a 25g, 25a season?

I would even say if Doan gives us 15g 25a plays both ends and makes us harder to play against and continues with his upside  and Peterka goes 30 and 30  I am still fine.  We must get better in the D zone... like now.  

Edited 6 hours ago by JP51

[bob_sauve28]

1 minute ago, K012010 said:

Get Quinn tf off this team also. Another liability as a two-way player and the guy looks like ***** Bambi now. Can’t stay on his feet.

Another soft first rounder that can’t come close to living up to the expectations. Sell him on his high offensive potential just like JJ.

 

He is pretty though! 

[French Collection]

It’s not like adding Deslauriers but the rest of the team just got a smidge braver. They don’t need a pure pugilist but more of a pack mentality.

Now move on from Mule to take that up another notch.

[That Aud Smell]

33 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Discuss the return - you are discussing the merits of the different types of lotion buffalo bill is lowering down into your hole. Go on. Lube up. 

Or stand up for something. 

[Archie Lee]

33 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So many variables and coaching is a huge one.

Ive always wanted to see a deep-dive piece on how analytics darlings do after getting traded. How common is the Ryan McLeod path? How many turn out to be Colin Millers?

The bold rings true to me. Should any of those things start with your 1st-line winger? Role matters in dressing rooms and talent helps dictate role.

How respected and serious was JJ? He’s almost certainly not a leader. Was he a good follower? Are the new guys good foot soldiers? Can they be good corporals?

Draft for talent, trade for need is a thing.

Is our coach and GM capable of identifying what was lacking and what is needed?

They haven’t been so far.

I fully acknowledge I have no idea how any of this will turn out. I have said from the start of the off-season that I think we can move Peterka and Byram for lesser players who are better fits in a team structure, and we can be a better team for it. I was, though (like you, I think), expecting that the players we bring in, if lesser in talent than Peterka and Byram, would at least be more experienced and have a longer track record of helping teams win. There is still lots of off-season left, but it is difficult for me to overlook that we made a 2 for 1 trade and the 2 we added will combined make about 1/3 of the salary that we traded. Given the post-pandemic track record of Pegula/Adams, I think it is reasonable to be concerned that there were considerations here that go beyond making us a better team.

Specific to the bolded, I agree that in Peterka's short-career and at his young age, he has yet to display characteristics of leadership. He has not had a plethora of great role models though, and nor should we be expecting that as a trait that every player has in spades. It all does seem a little eerily familiar, thinking back to other young players who we jettisoned to improve the culture.  At some point, the root cause of why player's don't want to be here and why the culture is bad, needs to be addressed.

 

[GoPuckYourself]

Now trade Byram for a JJ replacement and if that means the 9th overall pick goes with it I’m cool with that. Add a defensemen and legit goalie option in FA or trades and we’re looking up.

[mjd1001]

15 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

What happens if Doan gives us a 15g 25a season and Peterka puts up a 25g, 25a season?

To look at it positively, the person who gets peterka's minutes... Or how they're distributed around the forward group, let's look at that. What is the goal differential you get there? Meaning... Let's say you get 10 less goals out of those minutes, but you also allow five less.. then losing peterka is only -5. 

And if Doan replaces somebody on the 3rd or fourth line and gives you some production and along with not causing mistakes, gives you a positive five differential... Your forward group is close to being even. 

Then you could look at the improvement you get with the defense.. any improvement there is gravy on top.

[JustOneParade]

Apologies if this has been asked or covered previously. Is Kesselring a 2nd pair D already or is he a 3rd pair D who is expected to jump into the top 4? If the latter, isn't that the Cliffy signing v.2? 

Separately, this should pretty much tank the Complaints Thursday thread for this week.  (sorry for using that term)