The Quest for Power's Partner

[Archie Lee]

I think a reasonable, if very unexciting, option to pair with Power is a guy who we had recently for a year and probably should have kept:  Lyubushkin.

I've long thought Dallas was the team we should emulate. Dallas's top 4-D this year, up until the Heiskanen injury, was Heiskanen, Harley, Lindell, and Lyubushkin.  Except for Lyubushkin, all are lefties. I think that Harley is a close comp to Power.  Harley is 23, had 50 points this year, with 33 hits and 110 blocked shots.  Power is 22, had 40 points, 26 hits and 109 blocked shots.  Harley played mostly with Lyubushkin 5v5, but Dallas would mix-up their top 4 based on game situation.

Also, isn't Lindell a facsimile of what we want Samuelsson to be?  And every Sabre fan knows that Dahlin is better than Heiskanen.

Lyubushkin has 2 years left on his deal at $3.25.  The Athletic ran an article today on 9 overpaid players who could be traded (OK, this is perhaps working against my argument). Here is what they wrote on Lyubushkin: "Ilya Lyubushkin was competent for the Stars this past season — he was nowhere near the liability that Matt Dumba was — but his $3.25 million cap hit is a tad pricey for what he offers. Lyubushkin is a steady stay-at-home defenseman with limited puck skills. He’d be solid on any team’s bottom pair, but clearly isn’t the answer for the Stars in the top four."

Now, Lyubushkin was good enough to play in Dallas's top 4 all year, and not prevent Dallas from being a top regular season NHL team.  Do you want him in your top 4 when you are contending for the Cup?  No, but we can worry about that when we get there. 

My argument is basically this: I know we want a couple of new D-men, preferably R shot, to play with Dahlin and Power. And we want them to fit the billing (hey, I would like Dobson and Weegar too). But I look at the conference final teams this year and I see the following d-men in the top 4 for minutes played in the regular season (pre-trade deadline): Mikkola, Kulikov, Kulak, Gotsebehere, Lyubushkin. These are mostly guys who have been available for peanuts in recent years. 

Lyubushkin would not be my first choice, but we could and have done worse.  And we could get him for next to nothing probably.  Maybe even as an add-in that slightly lowers the cost on Robertson.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Archie Lee said:

I think a reasonable, if very unexciting, option to pair with Power is a guy who we had recently for a year and probably should have kept:  Lyubushkin.

I've long thought Dallas was the team we should emulate. Dallas's top 4-D this year, up until the Heiskanen injury, was Heiskanen, Harley, Lindell, and Lyubushkin.  Except for Lyubushkin, all are lefties. I think that Harley is a close comp to Power.  Harley is 23, had 50 points this year, with 33 hits and 110 blocked shots.  Power is 22, had 40 points, 26 hits and 109 blocked shots.  Harley played mostly with Lyubushkin 5v5, but Dallas would mix-up their top 4 based on game situation.

Also, isn't Lindell a facsimile of what we want Samuelsson to be?  And every Sabre fan knows that Dahlin is better than Heiskanen.

Lyubushkin has 2 years left on his deal at $3.25.  The Athletic ran an article today on 9 overpaid players who could be traded (OK, this is perhaps working against my argument). Here is what they wrote on Lyubushkin: "Ilya Lyubushkin was competent for the Stars this past season — he was nowhere near the liability that Matt Dumba was — but his $3.25 million cap hit is a tad pricey for what he offers. Lyubushkin is a steady stay-at-home defenseman with limited puck skills. He’d be solid on any team’s bottom pair, but clearly isn’t the answer for the Stars in the top four."

Now, Lyubushkin was good enough to play in Dallas's top 4 all year, and not prevent Dallas from being a top regular season NHL team.  Do you want him in your top 4 when you are contending for the Cup?  No, but we can worry about that when we get there. 

My argument is basically this: I know we want a couple of new D-men, preferably R shot, to play with Dahlin and Power. And we want them to fit the billing (hey, I would like Dobson and Weegar too). But I look at the conference final teams this year and I see the following d-men in the top 4 for minutes played in the regular season (pre-trade deadline): Mikkola, Kulikov, Kulak, Gotsebehere, Lyubushkin. These are mostly guys who have been available for peanuts in recent years. 

Lyubushkin would not be my first choice, but we could and have done worse.  And we could get him for next to nothing probably.  Maybe even as an add-in that slightly lowers the cost on Robertson.

If you are getting Lyubushkin to play on either of your top two pairings, you are excessively reaching. That's not appealing to me. However, getting him as a third pair player and helping to reorient how our unit plays (tougher and more basic defensively), then I'm all for it. 

My hope is that dealing off Byram with added inducements will bring in a defender who will be a good fit for either of the top two pairings. 

My priorities are to bring in an experienced goalie and to recompose the blue line unit with a couple of new faces. 
 

I know I am going to attract a lot of howls here but I haven't given up on Sameulsson as the secondary/support player on either of the top two pairings. 

[Archie Lee]

40 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If you are getting Lyubushkin to play on either of your top two pairings, you are excessively reaching. That's not appealing to me. However, getting him as a third pair player and helping to reorient how our unit plays (tougher and more basic defensively), then I'm all for it. 

My hope is that dealing off Byram with added inducements will bring in a defender who will be a good fit for either of the top two pairings. 

My priorities are to bring in an experienced goalie and to recompose the blue line unit with a couple of new faces. 
 

I know I am going to attract a lot of howls here but I haven't given up on Sameulsson as the secondary/support player on either of the top two pairings. 

Lyubushkin is not a top-4 d-man.  We agree.

The real point is that it is a myth that teams, even elite teams, have rosters that perfectly align with our preconceived notions of what a top-4 d-man is, or a top-6 forward, or, in some cases, a #1 goalie. Teams make the playoffs, finish high in the standings, go on deep playoff runs, every year, with players like Lyubushkin in their top-4-D or Evan Rodriguez in their top-6-forwards. We missed the playoffs by one point two seasons ago with a bottom pairing of Lyubushkin and Jacob Bryson (with Riley Stillman and Kale Clague in the mix), and a 2nd line of Cozens and rookie wingers Quinn and Peterka, and a goalie by committee situation.

As fans, we, generally, seem to approach roster building from the perspective of acquiring our 4-7 D and our 9-13 forwards, with the goal of making up for glaring shortcomings, such as: below NHL-average-level-coaching, or overpaid youngsters (Power, Cozens, Samuelsson) being forced to play roles they are not ready for. 

If the Dallas Stars can finish 5th overall with Thomas Harley and Lyubushkin as their 2nd pair, then we should be able to compete for a WC spot with Power and Lyubushkin, or Byram and Clifton, as our 2nd pair.  

Edited 7 hours ago by Archie Lee

[ponokasabre]

37 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If you are getting Lyubushkin to play on either of your top two pairings, you are excessively reaching. That's not appealing to me. However, getting him as a third pair player and helping to reorient how our unit plays (tougher and more basic defensively), then I'm all for it. 

My hope is that dealing off Byram with added inducements will bring in a defender who will be a good fit for either of the top two pairings. 

My priorities are to bring in an experienced goalie and to recompose the blue line unit with a couple of new faces. 
 

I know I am going to attract a lot of howls here but I haven't given up on Sameulsson as the secondary/support player on either of the top two pairings. 

I have no problem with Boosh, I actually really liked him, he has some tough injury luck with us and he made a few bone head plays but overall he was good

i too have no problem bringing him back to play 5/6 on this team

i just really want a true top 4 guy to play with Power, but Boosh would be welcomed back by me 

[GoPuckYourself]

[Believer]

56 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I know I am going to attract a lot of howls here but I haven't given up on Sameulsson as the secondary/support player on either of the top two pairings. 

Howl. Howl. Howl.

[JohnC]

14 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Lyubushkin is not a top-4 d-man.  We agree.

The real point is that it is a myth that teams, even elite teams, have rosters that perfectly align with our preconceived notions of what a top-4 d-man is, or a top-6 forward, or, in some cases, a #1 goalie. Teams make the playoffs, finish high in the standings, go on deep playoff runs, every year, with players like Lyubushkin in their top-4-D or Evan Rodriguez in their top-6-forwards. We missed the playoffs by one point two seasons ago with a bottom pairing of Lyubushkin and Jacob Bryson (with Riley Stillman and Kale Clague in the mix), and a 2nd line of Cozens and rookie wingers Quinn and Peterka, and a goalie by committee situation.

As fans, we, generally, seem to approach roster building from the perspective of acquiring our 4-7 D and our 9-13 forwards, with the goal of making up for glaring shortcomings, such as: below NHL-average-level-coaching, or overpaid youngsters (Power, Cozens, Samuelsson) being forced to play roles they are not ready for. 

If the Dallas Stars can finish 5th overall with Thomas Harley and Lyubushkin as their 2nd pair, then we should be able to compete for a WC spot with Power and Lyubushkin, or Byram and Clifton, as our 2nd pair.  

With consistent good goaltending deficiencies get masked. That’s the most critical issue for me. In a cap system there are going to be roster weaknesses. That happens even with elite teams.  Good net play overrides the problem area. A lot of attention has been directed to the loss of Jack and Reinhardt. And understandably so. However, not getting Ullnark into the fold has been a lingering and plaguing issue since he left. With an Ullmark level of net play the tenor of the discussions would be substantially different in a positive way.

[Archie Lee]

13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

With consistent good goaltending deficiencies get masked. That’s the most critical issue for me. In a cap system there are going to be roster weaknesses. That happens even with elite teams.  Good net play overrides the problem area. A lot of attention has been directed to the loss of Jack and Reinhardt. And understandably so. However, not getting Ullnark into the fold has been a lingering and plaguing issue since he left. With an Ullmark level of net play the tenor of the discussions would be substantially different in a positive way.

Sure, but you almost certainly aren't going to trade for anything close to such a sure thing in a goalie.  The closest you might come this off-season is Demko, who is coming off an injury-plagued year where he had a .889 save %; and he is a UFA after this season.

No position in major league sports is more prone to players having gigantic swings in performance from year to year than the NHL goalie position.  UPL had a bad year. Per MoneyPuck, in all situations he gave up 8.6 more goals than expected, 4th worst among starters (goalies who played at least 45 games).  3rd and 6th worst? Highly regarded netminders Jeremy Swayman and Juuse Saros. 

I don't know what UPL is going to do this year. I'm not optimistic, but that is more related to coaching than UPL. But, his 23-24 season is perhaps as much reason for optimism for his future as the 24-25 season is reason for skepticism.  The best we can likely do is add a veteran UFA goalie like Vladar or Lyon, and keep Levi as the ace-in-the-hole. And hope. 

[Gatorman0519]

This should of been figured out 3 years ago.

[jahnyc]

It is frustrating that there is a clear need to pair Power with a strong defensive partner given that Power was a number one overall pick in the draft.  Players that are selected in that position are supposed to be the type of players that make everyone around them better.  At his size, I also find it odd that he is not physical, which seems even stranger since he is a defenseman.  If we are constantly looking for a defenseman to pair with Power because of his deficiencies, should we be considering Power a long-term asset for the team?

[Thorny]

Going about as well as the search for Spock 

[Jorcus]

16 minutes ago, jahnyc said:

It is frustrating that there is a clear need to pair Power with a strong defensive partner given that Power was a number one overall pick in the draft.  Players that are selected in that position are supposed to be the type of players that make everyone around them better.  At his size, I also find it odd that he is not physical, which seems even stranger since he is a defenseman.  If we are constantly looking for a defenseman to pair with Power because of his deficiencies, should we be considering Power a long-term asset for the team?

It's funny that there is an obsession with getting a right shot D man for Power but no one is saying Byram needs one.

[Archie Lee]

16 minutes ago, Jorcus said:

It's funny that there is an obsession with getting a right shot D man for Power but no one is saying Byram needs one.

Well, Byram didn't need a R shot partner, because he played about 1/2 of his even strength minutes with Dahlin.  If we had put Power with Dahlin and made them partners (still an option!), then Power would not need a R shot partner.

[bob_sauve28]

46 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Going about as well as the search for Spock 

 

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Believer said:

Howl. Howl. Howl.

https://www.google.com/search?q=wolf+howling&oq=wolf+howlin&aqs=chrome.0.0i67i355i433i512i650j46i67i433i512i650j46i512j69i57j0i512j46i512j0i512l4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:721a0796,vid:5IaYm3NjJnM,st:0

[Thorny]

15 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

 

“I know…Jerry will tell you that the wrath of khan is the better picture…..”

[inkman]

His partner is on a different team. Send him there. 

2 hours ago, Jorcus said:

It's funny that there is an obsession with getting a right shot D man for Power but no one is saying Byram needs one.

Because he’s gettin traded