Zach Benson, the 5'10" 170lb, 18yr old rookie's first season review

[LGR4GM]

9 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Good thread

I agree with the sentiment of both Liger’s and GA’s posts, tbh. Benson was certainly great relatively (to other Sabres, to rookies in general), and yes, the former part of that relatively is damning regarding the roster we iced this season. Of course, none of that reflects poorly on Benson who was nothing but a bright spot.

No, they shouldn’t game plan on Benson routinely skating in the T-6 next season 

Can I ask why? 

he had 11g, 19a compared to JJP with 12g, 20a in his rookie year and JJP was in the top 6 in year two and flourished. 

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Can I ask why? 

he had 11g, 19a compared to JJP with 12g, 20a in his rookie year and JJP was in the top 6 in year two and flourished. 

No matter how much we compare relatively, none of those comps yield a team that garnered a playoff berth. Peterka had a very good year, yes, on a team that lacked scoring and finished 22nd. It’s not even close to a guarantee we DO get JJ production from Benson next year.

I’m definitely not putting it past Benson to do it, I wouldn’t even be shocked if he did better. I wouldn’t even be shocked if he had 80 points. I also wouldn’t be shocked if he had another 40. Why chance it when we are sitting on an (abundant) pool of tradeable pick and prospect assets? Add another top 6 forward if you can, so that we aren’t COUNTING on a 19 year old sophomore to do it 

how serious do we want to be about making the playoffs 

[Thorny]

There’s a distinction not everyone seems interested in making between what we think is *likely* to happen, and the steps we’d take to accentuate the roster if given the chance in a professional setting. 

If I was building a team in ea sports nhl yes I definitely have Benson in my top 6 as his “potential” rating is a lock to increase his overall stats! this year. But if I’m the GM of a professional hockey team with paying customers that needs to make the playoffs, im doing way more 

if we deal some prospect / pick assets and are left with an extra top 6 F that skates on the third line, I assure you this is a good problem to have, and nothing at all in the universe of being prohibitive to doing so/making that deal 

Edited April 25 by Thorny

[pi2000]

I was impressed with how well he held up physically. 

Normally you would expect an 18yo to hit a wall at some point during the season.    

He may have had a bit of a scoring slump, but effort level was very consistent.  

[spndnchz]

Benson is pretty much Skinner just younger

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, spndnchz said:

Benson is pretty much Skinner just younger

Except Benson is a passer and Skinner a shooter. And Benson plays good D.

Benson has a ways to go in penalty differential tho haha 

[Alaska John]

I keep thinking guys Benson's size can't hold up in the NHL.  But I just realized Benson (5' 10") is taller than Marchand (5' 9")!

I hate Marchand but I'd love him if he was on the Sabres.  He's a pest like Kaleta but has much better skills.  And other teams just hate playing against him, and they throw their defensive plans out the window to try to stop him.  (I watched the Bruins-Leafs game last night, and Marchand was simply the best player on the ice, better than any of the Leafs.  Geez I hate typing that...)

Anyway if someone can convince Benson to find and channel his inner Marchand, that would be great.  

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Alaska John said:

I keep thinking guys Benson's size can't hold up in the NHL.  But I just realized Benson (5' 10") is taller than Marchand (5' 9")!

I hate Marchand but I'd love him if he was on the Sabres.  He's a pest like Kaleta but has much better skills.  And other teams just hate playing against him, and they throw their defensive plans out the window to try to stop him.  (I watched the Bruins-Leafs game last night, and Marchand was simply the best player on the ice, better than any of the Leafs.  Geez I hate typing that...)

Anyway if someone can convince Benson to find and channel his inner Marchand, that would be great.  

I don't see Benson becoming Marchand or Marchand-like but he could be Danny Briere. 

As for next year, I am hoping Ruff starts camp as early as possible and makes it a clean slate for all players under contract regardless of age or stature. Earn it and it's yours for as long as you can hold on to it. That should be the standard applied equally to all. 

[Doohickie]

4 hours ago, Thorny said:

4 hours ago, spndnchz said:

Benson is pretty much Skinner just younger

Except Benson is a passer and Skinner a shooter. And Benson plays good D.

Benson has a ways to go in penalty differential tho haha 

Except Benson is decidedly not Skinner in any way.

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

Except Benson is decidedly not Skinner in any way.

They both white, they both Ben Affleck 

[triumph_communes]

He wasn’t just 18yo. He was also an underweight under 6’ player. And he had more craft out there and didn’t let the physicality cause him to cower. A couple of years and he’s going to be a menace. 

[Scottysabres]

This Sabres Fans generations Danny Briere.

Now.....

Bring us the head....with body attached....of this Sabres Fans generation capt. clutch, Chris Drury. 

[dudacek]

12 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't see Benson becoming Marchand or Marchand-like but he could be Danny Briere. 

As for next year, I am hoping Ruff starts camp as early as possible and makes it a clean slate for all players under contract regardless of age or stature. Earn it and it's yours for as long as you can hold on to it. That should be the standard applied equally to all. 

I was listening to Lindy talk about how he works, and how he basically the same as most coaches, he deploys the guys he trusts most to get the job done in all the most crucial game situations.

And I started thinking about how what changes is how much each coach likes a particular player.

Donnie clearly had a pecking order that started with Tuch and Tage. He liked to match top lines. He didn't lean on Ras much for the PK, but he played him to death everywhere else. Krebs was an extra. Quinn and Peterka an afterthought on the PP. Girgs a 4th liner. Samuelsson in the top 4 and often with Ras. No shutdown line.

All these trends that have kinda come to expect that may get overturned in ways we don't at all expect.

It will be interesting how it all settles out.

12 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

This Sabres Fans generations Danny Briere.

 

I mean I get the size and the compete level, but the team has a much better match for its Briere clone playing in Moose Jaw.

Savoie has those as well, but he also has Briere's shark-like approach to offence and breakaway threat. He even kinda looks like Danny.

Edited April 26 by dudacek

[nfreeman]

I do not see Briere in Benson, although both live around the net.  Briere was explosive and a great goal-scorer.  Benson is slower, more crafty, more scrappy and doesn't have much finish, at least not yet.  Elements of Marchand, Dougie Gilmour and Sam Reinhart.

[...]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

I do not see Briere in Benson, although both live around the net.  Briere was explosive and a great goal-scorer.  Benson is slower, more crafty, more scrappy and doesn't have much finish, at least not yet.  Elements of Marchand, Dougie Gilmour and Sam Reinhart.

Before the bolded: agreed.

The bolded: Not seeing the Marchand, although I'd like that to be true. He seems too happy to be in the NHL right now to display a Marchand-type personality. Don't remember enough about Gilmour to say. I like the Samson reference, though. IIRC, Samson was called something akin to crafty, slower, and without finish in his early years.

[French Collection]

5 hours ago, ... said:

Before the bolded: agreed.

The bolded: Not seeing the Marchand, although I'd like that to be true. He seems too happy to be in the NHL right now to display a Marchand-type personality. Don't remember enough about Gilmour to say. I like the Samson reference, though. IIRC, Samson was called something akin to crafty, slower, and without finish in his early years.

Sam had a muffin of a shot his first year or two.

Gilmour was like a dog on a bone.

[Archie Lee]

18 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

His 26 EVP was 201st among NHL forwards last season who played 41 or more games.  Still 4th line production.

Your perception of what a typical 4th line forward produces is off from reality (wildly off). Something around 500 forwards suited up for NHL games this year. If you are 201st in EVP you are not a 4th liner. 

I do agree with your earlier point though, that Benson should not have been in the NHL this season. It is my view. Not because he wasn’t capable. Indeed, he proved himself most capable of being a good middle 6 player. I am super excited about what he already brings and will bring to the team in the future. The reason he shouldn’t have been in the NHL is that the Sabres were in a must win year (see: Granato, Don:  Fired). Teams that are in must win years and that are already young and inexperienced and that have millions of dollars in cap space don’t go into camp leaving a spot open for the forward prospect who shows the best. That’s what established veteran winning playoff teams do when they have an open spot and no cap space to bring in a veteran.  Of course, this is not the point of this thread. It isn’t Benson’s issue that we don’t operate like a normal NHL team. I am thrilled that we have this kid. 

[LGR4GM]

19 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

His 26 EVP was 201st among NHL forwards last season who played 41 or more games.  Still 4th line production.

If there are 32 teams, and each team has a least 12 forwards, that means there are 384 forwards if all teams were playing give or take a few. That also means the top 1-96 would be the top 75-100th percentile, the 97-192 the 50-74th percentile, the 193-288 the 25-49th percentile, and the 289-384 the bottom 1-24th percentile or roughly 96 1st line, 97-192 2nd line, 193-288 3rd line, and 289 to 384 4th line forwards. While this is rough math, Zach Benson is closer to the 2nd line group than the 4th line group. 

Also saying someone was 201 without telling us 201 out of what? is almost useless. I graduated 201 in my class sounds terrible until I say my class was 20,000 ppl. 

Benson was tied for 219 out of 403 forwards who played at least 41 NHL games with 30 points. That puts him firmly into 3rd line territory. Benson was 225 in ppg (0.42ppg) which also leaves him in the 3rd line territory approaching the 2nd line threshold. Not bad for an 18yr old kid but certainly far and away above the 4th line level of production. He would need to drop about 0.1 ppg to get into the top of the 4th line land (287 overall) and if he went up a 0.1ppg would be firmly in 2nd line territory (171 overall).

Edited April 26 by LGR4GM
spelling

[That Aud Smell]

19 hours ago, inkman said:

He’s not quite as water buggy but his hockey IQ and guile are off the charts. 

Pithiest post I can recall seeing on this board. Really exquisite - especially pulling those terms (which are both spot on).

[That Aud Smell]

17 hours ago, spndnchz said:

Benson is pretty much Skinner just younger

[Pimlach]

19 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The fact that Benson was in our top 6 forwards this season is an indictment on the GM and the other players on the roster.  As much promise this kid has, at it's a ton, he should not have been in the NHL this season.  It was terrible asset management and it didn't make the team better.

He should have been in the CHL completing his 4th year in the CHL and then he could play in the AHL or NHL this coming season on the 1st year of his ELC.  Just dumb.  

Did the kid show he could play in the NHL?  Yes his did, but he was often knocked off the puck and took dumb penalty after dumb penalty.  He was not physically ready of the NHL game and it showed all season.  I'm not sure he'll be physically ready next season either because he is only 19 and not yet physically mature.  Sadly, he won't be eligible to be sent down to the A if he again isn't physically because of his age.  Oh well!

I'm sorry, but while I like some of what I saw from Benson this season, Benson's production was 224th among NHL forwards last season.  His p/gp of players with 41 or more games last season was 225th (tied with Greenway) at .42 pts p/gp.  That was 4th line production.  I also think the analytics place him in the top 9 for the Sabres, but considering how bad the offense was this season, that isn't much to write home about.

Do I think Benson has top 6 potential?  Yes I do, but in 2025/26 just in time for his next contract.

 

Cant say you are wrong either, especially the first sentence.

Benson is going to be fine, but Adams gets an F for his off season work.  

My opinion on Adams has really dropped since the last off season.  

[xzy89c1]

I think Benson is a middle six guy for ceiling with best case being second line. His skating is what keeps him from being top line guy. He is a tenacious forechecker that will only get better as he get more years in. Great awareness for a young player. Definately plays how the team should play vs how they play now. Works hard every shift. His weaknesses, outside of skating seem to be experienced/coaching based. Where to be in own zone. Backchecking to wrong place. Being 18 and playing against men lol. 

Excited to watch him develop.

When we rank guys on potential it is not where they fit in on Sabres. The best players in the league are the top line guys. Mcdavid, Mathews, Crosby, Mackinon, Panarin, Barkov, Kucherov, Point etc... His potential of being a second line guy is great. Especially at number 13 pick

Sabres have exactly one top player like that on the team in Dahlin.

Sorry if this is stream of consciousness, but I stayed up hours past bed time to watch bills trade back. Woke my wife up with a maniacal laugh when I saw we traded out of 32....

[xzy89c1]

19 hours ago, K-9 said:

Might want to review all the game videos because Benson won far more puck battles than he lost this season. He knows how to leverage his stature against bigger opponents and he did that routinely along the boards, the few times he was knocked on his butt notwithstanding.

And the ones he lost were not for lack of compete which is awesome. He is tenacious on the puck. 

[xzy89c1]

15 hours ago, Alaska John said:

I keep thinking guys Benson's size can't hold up in the NHL.  But I just realized Benson (5' 10") is taller than Marchand (5' 9")!

I hate Marchand but I'd love him if he was on the Sabres.  He's a pest like Kaleta but has much better skills.  And other teams just hate playing against him, and they throw their defensive plans out the window to try to stop him.  (I watched the Bruins-Leafs game last night, and Marchand was simply the best player on the ice, better than any of the Leafs.  Geez I hate typing that...)

Anyway if someone can convince Benson to find and channel his inner Marchand, that would be great.  

comparison with Marchand are tenious except for size. He is not nearly the skater MArchand is. we can hope but....

[Pimlach]

18 hours ago, spndnchz said:

Benson is pretty much Skinner just younger

He already plays a responsible two way game, which has always been the knock on Skinner.  

Edited April 26 by Pimlach