Sabres announce Don Granato, Jason Christie and Matt Smith have been relieved of their duties

[inkman]

3 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Leadership matters. Case study: Yeo->Berube

I’m still not seeing players on this roster that will survive a knock down drag out playoff series against anyone. They will get beaten physically and emotionally.  A lot of waify kids on this team.  They need men who impose their will not kids who want to dangle.  

[Brawndo]

36 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Well that would be really dumb and completely unacceptable

Also why would the new coach necessarily get 2 years?

But yes if you are right (and, respectfully, I’ll hope that, like with your thought that Granato would be coming back next year, you are NOT) it takes a bit of the silver lining hopefulness for a better future out of the day

So thanks for that 

For the simple fact that this owner has a reputation around the league for firing people too quickly. Granato is the first coach since Pegula bought the team to last three full seasons and was the 6th longest tenured coach in the league. So there is a justification for the decision.

Firing the new HC after one season? That permanently cements that rep. 
 

Besides Adams said it himself, he has worked for Terry Pegula in some capacity since Terry bought the team.

Much like  Matt Ellis it seems he will never leave 

[triumph_communes]

6 minutes ago, inkman said:

I’m still not seeing players on this roster that will survive a knock down drag out playoff series against anyone. They will get beaten physically and emotionally.  A lot of waify kids on this team.  They need men who impose their will not kids who want to dangle.  

We’re actually a pretty big team. The emotional part is where coaching comes in to change 

[Carmel Corn]

12 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

We’re actually a pretty big team. The emotional part is where coaching comes in to change 

Maybe on paper, but as it's been stated many, many times....they play small.  The only exception is maybe Benson (playing bigger than his punching weight) and maybe Clifton (from time to time)....and Dahlin sometimes as well.

Edited April 17 by Carmel Corn

[Thorny]

21 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

For the simple fact that this owner has a reputation around the league for firing people too quickly. Granato is the first coach since Pegula bought the team to last three full seasons and was the 6th longest tenured coach in the league. So there is a justification for the decision.

Firing the new HC after one season? That permanently cements that rep. 
 

Besides Adams said it himself, he has worked for Terry Pegula in some capacity since Terry bought the team.

Much like  Matt Ellis it seems he will never leave 

Right but for one reason or another I do not buy that just because Granato got fired that grants Adams an additional two years. You could can Adams and keep the coach. Or you could re-assign the coach to a hockey ops position to save face  

Edited April 17 by Thorny

[msw2112]

18 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

We’re actually a pretty big team. The emotional part is where coaching comes in to change 

Size alone doesn't matter.  An 8-year NHL veteran whose body is fully grown and developed, has had years of NHL-level weight training and nutrition, and is fully accustomed to the rigors of a NHL season and a few playoff series is going to physically dominate a 22-year old kid, even if the kid is a little bit taller and maybe even if he's a little bit heavier.  Of course there are exceptions (a tough younger player, a softer veteran player), but for the most part, the veteran player will be more physically dominant.  Also, as stated elsewhere, even a lot of the Sabres' larger players (Thompson and Power come to mind right away) are more skilled types of players who don't play a big, physical game.  I do think that with the proper coaching, the Sabres' players can learn to play a more physical style.  There was a thread a couple of months ago after a loss to Florida how stark the contrast was with Florida finishing EVERY check during the game and the Sabres finishing next to none.  Clifton and Eric Johnson were pretty close to the only Sabres who finished their checks in that game.  No surprise that these are a) veteran players; and b) players who grew up in other organizations.

Edited April 17 by msw2112

[inkman]

I didn’t see this earlier 

 

[Brawndo]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Right but for one reason or another I do not buy that just because Granato got fired that grants Adams an additional two years. You could can Adams and keep the coach. Or you could re-assign the coach to a hockey ops position to save face  

Most if not all experienced HC will want some guarantee that he and the GM that hired them get  two full seasons especially from this owner

 

If the drought does hit 14 years hopefully I am wrong 

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Most if not all experienced HC will want some guarantee that he and the GM that hired them get  two full seasons especially from this owner

 

If the drought does hit 14 years hopefully I am wrong 

Well, you’ve turned my “this likely means Adams is on the hot seat for 24-25” into “this might mean Adams is NOT on the hot seat, as he would have been had Granato stayed, for 24-25” so cool beans. 

[shrader]

1 hour ago, In The Buff said:

Lindy Ruff to me seems like the low hanging fruit TP would sign off on, with the goal to appease a restless disinterested fan base. I can see that conversation playing out & hiring Lindy on its own would raise some local interest. From the wording of today's Presser, it doesnt sound like we're hiring from within & thank the Gods for that. They emphasized how they want someone with real experience, but i also have zero faith we'll hire a Gallant level HC. So that leaves Lindy & for obvious reasons i think thats exactly what we'll do. Lindy would at least hold the players accountable & that in & of itself might be worth it. But i'd be all for a Brindamour, Gallant or even Torts.

I’m not on the Ruff bandwagon but I have to ask. Your wording above to me sounds like you’re putting Gallant on a level above Ruff (if that’s not right, ignore rest). I’m just not seeing that from their resumes. I thought, ok, maybe age is a factor but Lindy is only 4 months later. Gallant does have a very slightly higher points percentage, but he spent very little time coaching pre-shoot out, which I think washes out that difference. 

[triumph_communes]

29 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

Maybe on paper, but as it's been stated many, many times....they play small.  The only exception is maybe Benson (playing bigger than his punching weight) and maybe Clifton (from time to time)....and Dahlin sometimes as well.

So, coaching can impact. Young players can still change. Skinner is probably the only old dog that’s unreachable 

[Scottysabres]

9 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

So, coaching can impact. Young players can still change. Skinner is probably the only old dog that’s unreachable 

Would skinny accept a trade?

[Archie Lee]

43 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Right but for one reason or another I do not buy that just because Granato got fired that grants Adams an additional two years. You could can Adams and keep the coach. Or you could re-assign the coach to a hockey ops position to save face  

It did not go very well the last time we fired the GM and kept the coach. It could happen, but I think it would take more than missing the playoffs. It would take the kind of putrid season that left Pegula thinking he had no choice but to fire Adams. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, jad1 said:

I know that Adams doesn't want to hear that the Sabres are young as an excuse, but it's not an excuse that they are too young, it's a fact.

Young players are inconsistent, and the team suffered from inconsistency this year.

The Sabres have 10 players under the age of 24 on the roster.  For reference, the Panthers have one.

So if Adams decided to fire Granato because of his game management or line decisions, or he lost the room, fine.  But if decided to fire his coach because his 20 year old top 4 defenseman or his 22 year old goalie didn't play like seasoned veterens, well that's on Adams, not Granato.

Youth is not an excuse, it's a choice. A choice that Adams made over and over again in refusing to age up the lineup.

 

I've been banging the drum for awhile here on the 3 seasons/200 games for a while on here in terms of the Luukkonens and the Powers and the Quinns. you don't have to sell me on your point.

But that cuts both ways: Tuch, Thompson, Skinner and Cozens were the season's big disappointments and major reasons why the Sabres are on the outside looking in. They are past that rationale.

The concern about Granato prior to the year was "he's a great coach fro developing kids, is he a great coach for guiding an NHL contender?"

I think Adams showed us he thinks he got his answer.

Edited April 17 by dudacek

[Buffalonill]

31 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Would skinny accept a trade?

Probably leafs

[Thorny]

42 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

It did not go very well the last time we fired the GM and kept the coach. It could happen, but I think it would take more than missing the playoffs. It would take the kind of putrid season that left Pegula thinking he had no choice but to fire Adams. 

Ok. And if Adams gets a 6th year after not making the playoffs once his first 5, I won’t be here for it haha. Im not mad about it, but ya gotta draw the line somewhere 

[GoPuckYourself]

1 hour ago, inkman said:

I’m still not seeing players on this roster that will survive a knock down drag out playoff series against anyone. They will get beaten physically and emotionally.  A lot of waify kids on this team.  They need men who impose their will not kids who want to dangle.  

I think if you integrate those types of players with the players we have now it will be enough because I don't see guys like Tuch/Thompson/Greenway physcially dominated but I would like to see a rugged defensive defensemen added with Power/Dahlin and Byram, someone whose very good defensively but can also make you pay for even looking at our goalie, I'm not sure who that guy would be. 

[In The Buff]

1 hour ago, shrader said:

I’m not on the Ruff bandwagon but I have to ask. Your wording above to me sounds like you’re putting Gallant on a level above Ruff (if that’s not right, ignore rest). I’m just not seeing that from their resumes. I thought, ok, maybe age is a factor but Lindy is only 4 months later. Gallant does have a very slightly higher points percentage, but he spent very little time coaching pre-shoot out, which I think washes out that difference. 

Yeah theyre generally a wash, but they do have 2 different styles. But i'll be honest, i'm not completely aware of what coaches are even available this time around. I know Craig Berube is another name whose out there. He won a Cup coaching St Louis 5 years ago, i'm guessing that was when we sent ROR there? In years past i would be hyper-focused on potential coaches, thinking that we'd surely get a more experienced coach this time, but now that we're on our 7th HC after Ruff was canned, it seems like an exercise in futility lol.

If TP's plan is to bring back the atmosphere from when Ruff was coach, it just makes sense that bringing Ruff back would be high on their list of options. Mainly because he's available & theres our shared history, but i also think he's the most likely to say yes. Whereas with other candidates, we simply don't know if they'd want to come here.  I'm not on his bandwagon either. Before Granato i was supportive of the idea. Now? I wouldn't hate it but i dont think he'd take us to the Cup either.

[SABRES 0311]

2 hours ago, inkman said:

I didn’t see this earlier 

 

Why did Ellis survive the purge?

[Scottysabres]

3 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Why did Ellis survive the purge?

Because he's the Matt Ellis of purges?

 

[SABRES 0311]

Just now, Scottysabres said:

Because he's the Matt Ellis of purges?

 

I don’t know how to respond so I gave you a thumbs up

[Buffalo Super Fan]

I am not surprised that Don Granato was fired. Buffalo Sabres fans saying I want this coach or that coach the coach has to want to come to the Buffalo Sabres. It takes two that is why the odds are it’s Lindy Ruff be glad he has merci on the Buffalo Sabres and wants to come back here. The bottom line this Sabres fan would hold a parade if the Buffalo Sabres actually made the playoffs again. Be glad Lindy Ruff wants to comeback the Sabres should have hired him back instead of Ralph Krueger. Enough the Buffalo Sabres fans fantasies this isn’t the Buffalo Bills job with Josh Allen or even the Buffalo Bandits coaching job. The Buffalo Sabres aren’t a must coach team wake up some Sabres fans think NHL coaches are excited about the Buffalo Sabre job there not that is what happens tanking and sucking for 13 straight years.

If the Buffalo Sabres hire Lindy Ruff as head coach we should celebrate because I know he can get Buffalo Sabres to the playoffs. I don’t care he never won a Stanley Cup there is a first time for everything. Plus I can sleep at night knowing Lindy Ruff is going to get these lazy players skating and not like they are on a cruise. The Buffalo Sabres presently are by far one of the laziest Buffalo sports teams in my 50 years of being a fan Lindy Ruff put an end of that crap that I am certain about. If Lindy Ruff can’t fix the Sabres than the Sabres franchise needs to be contracted and starting with a new Buffalo NHL expansion team because I have zero tolerance of youth excuses and lazy entitled Sabres hockey players on this team while every other NHL team puts out. The Sabres started out rebuild before the Detroit Wings that is embarrassing in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Edited April 17 by Buffalo Super Fan

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, Thorny said:

Right but for one reason or another I do not buy that just because Granato got fired that grants Adams an additional two years. You could can Adams and keep the coach. Or you could re-assign the coach to a hockey ops position to save face  

GMs usually get to go through a coach or two before they get canned. It's the normal cycle of NHL life. 

It goes like this. GM comes in and says he will make changes. They tear down the roster and/or bring in a coach. That coach fails he is the first to take the blame. If he's fired early GM might get a second coach before it's everybody out the door. 

If Adams picks a coach now and still misses the playoffs next year I suspect he will be fired as well. and then it repeats until you win. 

[inkman]

9 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

Probably leafs

Why would they want him?

[LGR4GM]

10 hours ago, msw2112 said:

Size alone doesn't matter.  An 8-year NHL veteran whose body is fully grown and developed, has had years of NHL-level weight training and nutrition, and is fully accustomed to the rigors of a NHL season and a few playoff series is going to physically dominate a 22-year old kid, even if the kid is a little bit taller and maybe even if he's a little bit heavier.  Of course there are exceptions (a tough younger player, a softer veteran player), but for the most part, the veteran player will be more physically dominant.  Also, as stated elsewhere, even a lot of the Sabres' larger players (Thompson and Power come to mind right away) are more skilled types of players who don't play a big, physical game.  I do think that with the proper coaching, the Sabres' players can learn to play a more physical style.  There was a thread a couple of months ago after a loss to Florida how stark the contrast was with Florida finishing EVERY check during the game and the Sabres finishing next to none.  Clifton and Eric Johnson were pretty close to the only Sabres who finished their checks in that game.  No surprise that these are a) veteran players; and b) players who grew up in other organizations.

Sabres were the worst forechecking team in hockey this season.