End of 23/24 season msg from this fan......."steady as she goes, stay the course".

[Carmel Corn]

34 minutes ago, Goldseatsaud said:

I heard the GR interview as well. I just think Don is a decent coach he seems to laidback and coddling for me. 

What proof is there that he is a good NHL head coach?!?!   I don't see any indication of a history of winning teams....and YES, he is too coddling...to the point of the detriment of his team.

[bob_sauve28]

I'm totally cool with staying the course. Maybe I just like Donnie, too. If they made big changes I'd be cool, too.

 

Just want them to get on the right track and start winning. Young players take so long to develop

[Goldseatsaud]

11 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

What proof is there that he is a good NHL head coach?!?!   I don't see any indication of a history of winning teams....and YES, he is too coddling...to the point of the detriment of his team.

Decent coach I never said he was good, very good or excellent. An average NHL coach just isn’t good enough ok

[Pimlach]

18 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

.For as much as an overwhelming majority of the fan base want change, outside of maybe some asst. coaches, the roster is where that change will occur. There are real time improvements that have been made, and to not acknowledge them while our frustration grows just doesn't feel right.

1. Goaltending.......inside organizational growth has improved this position. No need to get in to the particulars, we all watch it.

2. Defensive corps.......improved, the 2nd half of season gaa says it all, and while it's a complete effort, the defense has improved.

3. Forward ranks........we all know the skill talent is there, need on ice leadership towards what some call grit, others call heart. For myself, it's called individual accountability from each player to dig down game after game to apply a full 60 min. effort. Leadership on the roster is critical for this in my opinion ad Donny can't throw on a jersey and join the in game action. Sure the coach can do some, make adjustments, hold players accountable, but it's the players that need to self police their own play imo.

So, from my view, we stay the course, continue to build the maturity of the roster, add those character leadership players in the off season and beyond. I'm very optimistic about this current teams future. I see an upward mobility in the standings in our immediate future.

"Steady as she goes, stay the course".'

Adding those "leadership character players" is not staying the course.  Adams has showed no ability to add those kind of players  - Stahl didn't want to help us, Hall could not help us, EJ and Anderson were expired players on an empty tank.  The Mitts-Byram trade just got us younger and gave us another 21 year old kid to cover up for - Byram is not yet a first pair guy either.  Paired with Joker, they make up a very weak 2nd pair that gets exploited.  

So far he has drafted 3 good NHL players - Quinn, Peterka, and Benson - all still learning their way.  He made one good trade to fill a need (Greenway for a #2), and he made one good UFA signing (Clifton).   Everything else he did is a big nothing.  Maybe a few more prospects will develop, making the team younger still,  but the roster is completely devoid of men that play the game the right way and know how to win.  

So stay the course?   There are some good building blocks.   I say bring in a better coaching staff at the minimum.  Prefer that Terry brings in an experienced hockey man (POHO) to put over Adams.  Then Adams can concentrate on contracts and the draft.  Let the POHO fix the roster (handle the pro personnel) and find a coach. 

My trust in Adams to make all the right moves is waning. 

 

[Drag0nDan]

2 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

Staying the course is the correct thing to do. But it doesn’t mean making no meaningful changes. Staying the course means you remain committed to the vast majority of your young core (Thompson, Tuch, Cozens, Peterka, Quinn, Benson, Dahlin, Power, Byram, UPL, Levi) and that you don’t “blow it up”. Staying the course doesn’t mean running back something that failed. There are many meaningful changes that can be made in an attempt to advance this team to the playoffs that don’t involve steering off the current course (coaching changes and adding veterans in key positions are the obvious examples). To not make such changes is to do the opposite of what successful and serious professional sports franchises do. 

Thats basically how i see it too. 

Skinner is under contract - doesn't mean we have to have him on the team.  Probably a year ahead of a buyout, and while he scores goals he 

Greenway seems like a fine bottom 6 winger, but i'm not married to him (personally i think he plays too small.  If he played a bit faster and brought it a bit more in the forecheck I think he could be a pretty good player.  

Krebs can't shoot.  I don't see how that works in a bottom 6 role if he isn't a physical or more effective defensive forward.  

We have a bunch of prospects near graduation, doesn't mean they need to all be brought up (or kept).  Preferably you bring up one (who does not play 7 minutes on the 4th line), and find effective veterans through other means to fill out the rest of the roster.  

[Archie Lee]

38 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

What proof is there that he is a good NHL head coach?!?!   I don't see any indication of a history of winning teams....and YES, he is too coddling...to the point of the detriment of his team.

The Sabres are not a good team. It should be noted that the Sabres are going to finish about where the pre-season models, based on talent and past-performance, had them finishing. I think there are experienced NHL coaches who could have squeezed more out of the team than Granato did, but I honestly think he got them to about the level that their talent, experience and make-up reasonably allowed. 
 

I don’t think Granato is the best coach to take them to the next level. A normal NHL team that is committed to winning with any degree of urgency would make a change. I could though, absolutely see Granato being successful in the short-term as a “breath of fresh air” mid-season replacement for a cup contending team that is underachieving with a hard-ass coach who has lost the room. 

[inkman]

Expecting a coach to scream at morning show guys and throw his players under the bus tells me fans don’t understand how a lot of things work.  Also, the WGR guys need to maintain a working relationship with Sabres personnel, including Granato.  If they slam him the second he is off the air, he’ll never come back on the show.  
 

Granato isn’t going to tell a radio show his thoughts and feelings about individual players.  He’ll get into how they are playing and what he’d like to se them do but tell the media his players suck will lose the locker room immediately.  
 

People put entirely too much stock into these interviews. It’s to give us access not air his issues with players.  Have any of you managed people?  You start doing what many are suggesting, you’ll lose the players respect.  
 

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Granato did a great job.  I’d like to see a change but I’m resigned to the fact that it most likely won’t happen. 
 

The comments from Tage, Tuch and Dahlin are concerning.  I like they are trying to take ownership but to me it sounds like guys who don’t have the answers. I don’t think they or the coach can provide the answers as they’ve been at this for years.  If you haven’t figured it out by now, maybe you aren’t the right guys.  
 

This organization need an injection of leadership.  Focus, determination, consistent work habits and a burning desire to win.  I don’t see that in this group.  Just wayward souls on a journey with no direction.  

[nucci]

the "steady as she goes" in title gave me a chuckle

[Mr Peabody]

Hockey fan here but I’m not a hockey historian.  Has any team won in the free agent era (or last 20-25 years) by building via the draft?  Doesn’t seem like a good game plan when you’re drafting teenagers.  As we’ve seen, the top tier competitive talent will want out before the newbies are ready to contribute at the NHL level.  
 

Also since sports are driven by a “win now” philosophy (as demonstrated by coaching turnover) it would appear to devalue your prospect pool as how many GM’s want to wait 3-4 years for a guy to develop? 

[Pimlach]

51 minutes ago, inkman said:

Expecting a coach to scream at morning show guys and throw his players under the bus tells me fans don’t understand how a lot of things work.  Also, the WGR guys need to maintain a working relationship with Sabres personnel, including Granato.  If they slam him the second he is off the air, he’ll never come back on the show.  
 

Granato isn’t going to tell a radio show his thoughts and feelings about individual players.  He’ll get into how they are playing and what he’d like to se them do but tell the media his players suck will lose the locker room immediately.  
 

People put entirely too much stock into these interviews. It’s to give us access not air his issues with players.  Have any of you managed people?  You start doing what many are suggesting, you’ll lose the players respect.  
 

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Granato did a great job.  I’d like to see a change but I’m resigned to the fact that it most likely won’t happen. 
 

The comments from Tage, Tuch and Dahlin are concerning.  I like they are trying to take ownership but to me it sounds like guys who don’t have the answers. I don’t think they or the coach can provide the answers as they’ve been at this for years.  If you haven’t figured it out by now, maybe you aren’t the right guys.  
 

This organization need an injection of leadership.  Focus, determination, consistent work habits and a burning desire to win.  I don’t see that in this group.  Just wayward souls on a journey with no direction.  

Adams does not take ownership for the state of the team, so neither does Granato, so neither do the players.  I am so tired of hearing that they are not the cause for the drought.  The current FO, the current coaches,  and the current players are as big of contributors as anyone else. 

This is the exact opposite approach that McDermott and Beane took. 

The Sabres are clueless from top to bottom.  

[Weave]

17 minutes ago, Mr Peabody said:

Hockey fan here but I’m not a hockey historian.  Has any team won in the free agent era (or last 20-25 years) by building via the draft?  Doesn’t seem like a good game plan when you’re drafting teenagers.  As we’ve seen, the top tier competitive talent will want out before the newbies are ready to contribute at the NHL level.  
 

Also since sports are driven by a “win now” philosophy (as demonstrated by coaching turnover) it would appear to devalue your prospect pool as how many GM’s want to wait 3-4 years for a guy to develop? 

Every team wins or looses through their drafting efforts.  Every team but Buffalo has recognized that it is important to have a solid base of good veterans to guide their young players.

[In The Buff]

19 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Adams does not take ownership for the state of the team, so neither does Granato, so neither do the players.  I am so tired of hearing that they are not the cause for the drought.  The current FO, the current coaches,  and the current players are as big of contributors as anyone else. 

This is the exact opposite approach that McDermott and Beane took. 

The Sabres are clueless from top to bottom.  

yeah until they break the drought, they are the drought lol. So they're not responsible for the 1st 7 years, but theyre responsible for the last 6 (or however long its been... i stopped counting after 10). 1 thing that i see missing is accountability. There's none, nowhere in this franchise. Not from or for the owner, the GM, the coach or the players... and thats a problem. It just feels like everyone is going thru the motions. Playing their part in the play for today. And it seems like we're the NHL's development camp for the rest of the League. We develop them, ship em out, get picks/prospects back & rinse cycle repeat.

Being the absolute youngest team in the NHL is an anomaly... When you've missed the Playoffs for as long as we have, anomalies stand out & one should ask: perhaps we shouldnt be the youngest team in the League, maybe we need some vets? It doesnt seem to be brain science but we've struggled so much with very simple things, for multiple years, that its appears like it is. Most of this Board has said for years what this team needs. Its self evident to anyone watching... except to those who actually can do anything, the GM & Owner.

Idk what the solution is at this point. Just like every year, we seem to be close yet so far away. Maybe Seppuku? 🤣

[Believer]

20 hours ago, jad1 said:

It is not the norm for the fans of an NHL team to endure this level of ineptitude for this long from a coach or GM (not to mention from the overall franchise.

Or be expected to pay for season tickets, game day tickets, parking, and concessions with hard-earned wages or other income… when the owner doesn’t care enough to insist his GM, Coach, and Players commit to a winning effort every single game.

[Doohickie]

19 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

Give a full 60.....slackers 🤣 

That is simply all the Sabres need to do.  I think they need some high end veteran presence to demand it (Daddy Kyle wasn't enough), and a coach who knows how to game coach at the NHL level.

[postseasonblues]

They can fire everyone, trade any players, change uniform, even unretire some jersey numbers.

Just don't care.

 

 

[Scottysabres]

42 minutes ago, postseasonblues said:

They can fire everyone, trade any players, change uniform, even unretire some jersey numbers.

Just don't care.

 

 

 

[inkman]

1 hour ago, Believer said:

Or be expected to pay for season tickets, game day tickets, parking, and concessions with hard-earned wages or other income… when the owner doesn’t care enough to insist his GM, Coach, and Players commit to a winning effort every single game.

I wish effort was the underlying issue.  I thinks it’s deeper than that.  

[SabresVet]

Another issue I have with "standing pat" is that your competition improves or regresses every season.  Except, that hasn't really happened in the Eastern Conference where a 6 team core have made the playoffs 3 years running: FLA, CAR, TOR, NYR, TB, and BOS.  And that's with Pittsburgh and Washington no longer Cup contenders.  The top 6 teams don't look to be dropping off anytime soon either.  

2023-24 was Adams' opportunity to see how this roster would respond after minor moves, but we now know it's not built well.  And unless some of those teams listed above start falling off, the Sabres will be outside the post-season next year.  Time to be bold and stop assuming this roster will get better AND be able to more consistently defeat those teams that repeatedly finish ahead of them in the standings.    

[Mango]

On 4/9/2024 at 3:40 PM, Scottysabres said:

.For as much as an overwhelming majority of the fan base want change, outside of maybe some asst. coaches, the roster is where that change will occur. There are real time improvements that have been made, and to not acknowledge them while our frustration grows just doesn't feel right.

1. Goaltending.......inside organizational growth has improved this position. No need to get in to the particulars, we all watch it.

2. Defensive corps.......improved, the 2nd half of season gaa says it all, and while it's a complete effort, the defense has improved.

3. Forward ranks........we all know the skill talent is there, need on ice leadership towards what some call grit, others call heart. For myself, it's called individual accountability from each player to dig down game after game to apply a full 60 min. effort. Leadership on the roster is critical for this in my opinion ad Donny can't throw on a jersey and join the in game action. Sure the coach can do some, make adjustments, hold players accountable, but it's the players that need to self police their own play imo.

So, from my view, we stay the course, continue to build the maturity of the roster, add those character leadership players in the off season and beyond. I'm very optimistic about this current teams future. I see an upward mobility in the standings in our immediate future.

"Steady as she goes, stay the course".'

 

Since January 1 this team is something like bottom 7 in the league in xGA, HD Shots Against, HD Chances Against, and Shots off the rebound against. I don't understand how anybody can watch these games and think the defense has been good.

GA is a very high level stat that doesn't tell a complete story. There is a strong argument to be made that UPL has been a Vezina level goaltender from January 1 on. How is it even debatable that UPL single handedly bailed this team (and defense) out of a top 5 pick in the 2024 draft. If everybody on the bench and in the FO is brought back they should all give a portion of their paycheck to UPL. 

Without hyperbole, he has carried that much weight in keeping this team out of the dumpster this year. 

 

[Mango]

7 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Adding those "leadership character players" is not staying the course.  Adams has showed no ability to add those kind of players  - Stahl didn't want to help us, Hall could not help us, EJ and Anderson were expired players on an empty tank.  The Mitts-Byram trade just got us younger and gave us another 21 year old kid to cover up for - Byram is not yet a first pair guy either.  Paired with Joker, they make up a very weak 2nd pair that gets exploited.  

So far he has drafted 3 good NHL players - Quinn, Peterka, and Benson - all still learning their way.  He made one good trade to fill a need (Greenway for a #2), and he made one good UFA signing (Clifton).   Everything else he did is a big nothing.  Maybe a few more prospects will develop, making the team younger still,  but the roster is completely devoid of men that play the game the right way and know how to win.  

So stay the course?   There are some good building blocks.   I say bring in a better coaching staff at the minimum.  Prefer that Terry brings in an experienced hockey man (POHO) to put over Adams.  Then Adams can concentrate on contracts and the draft.  Let the POHO fix the roster (handle the pro personnel) and find a coach. 

My trust in Adams to make all the right moves is waning. 

 

It should be noted that Quin and JJP were allowed to bake in Rochester where as guys like Cozens were forced into action immediately. Cozens has been much more inconsistent getting up to speed. I know others are sky high on Cozens, I am "eh" on him at this point and sky high on JJP/Quinn. 

Levi needs/needed to bake in Rochester. 

Benson is weird because he is way too talented for Juniors and this team so not talented enough for the NHL at the moment so he sort of accidentally makes the team. 

 

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Adding those "leadership character players" is not staying the course.  Adams has showed no ability to add those kind of players  - Stahl didn't want to help us, Hall could not help us, EJ and Anderson were expired players on an empty tank.  The Mitts-Byram trade just got us younger and gave us another 21 year old kid to cover up for - Byram is not yet a first pair guy either.  Paired with Joker, they make up a very weak 2nd pair that gets exploited.  

So far he has drafted 3 good NHL players - Quinn, Peterka, and Benson - all still learning their way.  He made one good trade to fill a need (Greenway for a #2), and he made one good UFA signing (Clifton).   Everything else he did is a big nothing.  Maybe a few more prospects will develop, making the team younger still,  but the roster is completely devoid of men that play the game the right way and know how to win.  

So stay the course?   There are some good building blocks.   I say bring in a better coaching staff at the minimum.  Prefer that Terry brings in an experienced hockey man (POHO) to put over Adams.  Then Adams can concentrate on contracts and the draft.  Let the POHO fix the roster (handle the pro personnel) and find a coach. 

My trust in Adams to make all the right moves is waning. 

 

I'm in basic agreement with you but everything else he did was not a big nothing. He lost players and made subtractions. Huge ones. Mitts took a longer development path but he was our best center now. Ullmark walked and won a Vezina. Eichel was moved and won a cup. Reinhart has over 50 goals. The current roster is younger but not more talented than the roster he inherited. 

Remember UPL was not Adams plan. Adams plan was (and maybe still is) Levi. Imagine what we'd have had if UPL hadn't stepped up or worse, they waived him early on and he was claimed. Adams just got lucky or this team would have been substantially worse than it was. 

[sabremike]

The best thing is that the team already has the excuse of starting the season in Europe lined up when they get off to a 4-13 start and the season is over by Thanksgiving.

[mjd1001]

7 hours ago, Drag0nDan said:

Thats basically how i see it too. 

Skinner is under contract - doesn't mean we have to have him on the team.  Probably a year ahead of a buyout, and while he scores goals he 

Greenway seems like a fine bottom 6 winger, but i'm not married to him (personally i think he plays too small.  If he played a bit faster and brought it a bit more in the forecheck I think he could be a pretty good player.  

Krebs can't shoot.  I don't see how that works in a bottom 6 role if he isn't a physical or more effective defensive forward.  

We have a bunch of prospects near graduation, doesn't mean they need to all be brought up (or kept).  Preferably you bring up one (who does not play 7 minutes on the 4th line), and find effective veterans through other means to fill out the rest of the roster.  

I posted this in another thread, but it applies to your post. I agree most of what you said.  And yes, Krebs and Cozens can get better/get back on track, but something is very worrying:

-As in my other post, optimism hit is peak around here on March 2, Sabres had just won 5 of 6, beat Vegas 7-2, and were above the .500 points per game mark. I'd honestly say that was the point of peak optimism and things went bad since then. In 17 games since then, Thompson scored 11 goals in those 17 games and 20 points, and has been a plus 11.  BUT...Krebs and Cozens.  Starting that stretch, the stretch that was going to determine whether you made the playoffs or not...They both played 18 games, both had 1 single goal each in those 18 games, and were both minus players.  

[Thorny]

10 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

Staying the course is the correct thing to do. But it doesn’t mean making no meaningful changes. Staying the course means you remain committed to the vast majority of your young core (Thompson, Tuch, Cozens, Peterka, Quinn, Benson, Dahlin, Power, Byram, UPL, Levi) and that you don’t “blow it up”. Staying the course doesn’t mean running back something that failed. There are many meaningful changes that can be made in an attempt to advance this team to the playoffs that don’t involve steering off the current course (coaching changes and adding veterans in key positions are the obvious examples). To not make such changes is to do the opposite of what successful and serious professional sports franchises do. 

That’s a good way to phrase it 

[ska-T Chitown]

2 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I posted this in another thread, but it applies to your post. I agree most of what you said.  And yes, Krebs and Cozens can get better/get back on track, but something is very worrying:

-As in my other post, optimism hit is peak around here on March 2, Sabres had just won 5 of 6, beat Vegas 7-2, and were above the .500 points per game mark. I'd honestly say that was the point of peak optimism and things went bad since then. In 17 games since then, Thompson scored 11 goals in those 17 games and 20 points, and has been a plus 11.  BUT...Krebs and Cozens.  Starting that stretch, the stretch that was going to determine whether you made the playoffs or not...They both played 18 games, both had 1 single goal each in those 18 games, and were both minus players.  

I don't even know if i believe what I am about to type - but for discussion's sake ... any chance we know the total goals for and against while Krebs and Cozens played? ie - if they (and their linemates) did not score much, but also did not find themselves on the ice for too many of the other teams' goals - it might not be as bad as first blush?

That said - your point about "key" offensive players disappearing when it matters is not lost. (Also, for fun, read that last sentence as though they are players who offend, vs generate offense, lol)