When are things going to change?

[CallawaySabres]

Rule number 1, never, ever waste your money on a Bruins game. It is the most depressing atmosphere you can witness.

[wjag]

26 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

Welcome back, my friend, to the show that never ends ... It's been a while since we have seen you around here ... sent you a beer thingie.

Welcome !!  Sent you a beer thingie.

Our fearless leader says things will be better next Thursday.  By the law of averages it has to get better at some point.  Actually, things have improved significantly in the last few year, but at glacial pace, which is too slowly for most of us fans.  No one else seems to care.

Thanks.  I've actually been lurking for a few years now.  I've been posting more on the Bills board.   We caught the game against Pittsburgh on Thanksgiving.  That was a fun night.  Deluded myself into believing they play up to the competition.  That game they played in Boston was incredible.  Perhaps their best game of the year.  And then the game against Toronto was another example.  And of course getting bombed by Columbus further added to my delusion.  Well after watching that game last night, it's pretty clear to me a coaching change is needed yet again.  They can't pass, they can't dump in, they can't defend, they have no sense around the net.  That's coaching.

 

Most entertaining moments last night was on the empty net.  If I have this right, Dahlin got in the way of a blast heading for the empty net.  It clearly wounded him, but he couldn't get off the ice.  He retreated to defend the goal.  Then he tried to leave and another Boston rush forced him back toward the goal where he defended the shot.  So he should be credited with a save, but probably a block.  Afterwards he limped off the ice.

[Goldseatsaud]

9 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

You'll just have to have patience. There isn't much else to say really. We all wish the nightmare to end, but it hasn't yet.

Patience lol. Since 1970 been hoping 

[miles]

i will be honest, i was a huge football fan in my younger days, but unfortunately i picked the jets as my team. year after year, they failed. i knew i couldnt just pick a new team, so i stopped watching completely.

 

that has happened to me with hockey too. i thought i could pick another team, but really my heart will always be with the sabres. however, they will not be good in my lifetime

 

i have come to accept that my teams are never going to be good

[Big Guava]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Talent and skill is not translating to performance.   The PP has been bad for a year.  This coaching staff has no answers. Other teams figured it out and that’s all this staff has.  
 

Inept is a word to describe them. 

Yup...mostly the only way they score is on a PP rush or the odd one timer. Half the issue is they can't hit the net or get shots blocked constantly.

[OverPowerYou]

10 hours ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

Maybe the arena needs to be empty, straight up 500 fans or less. 

As long as the building is making money, they don't have to change anything. 

 

9 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Yes, been there done that.  Wasted a lot of money too. 
 

The home record has been bad for a long time.  You didn’t mention the dark atmosphere, the bad food, and the overall bad fan experience.  The place is a morgue.  Worst NHL experience I’ve ever had.  The seats are far away from the ice, there is no intimacy or energy.  I hate going there and I stopped going after the first month.  Enough. 

 

2 hours ago, wjag said:

Took the family to the game tonight.  The amount of Bruins fans there was stunning.  They had practically all the seats in the lower bowl surrounding the end where the Bruins shoot twice.  That game was absolutely brutal to watch.  Brutal..  I get Toronto fans taking over, but Boston fans?

The Sabres have absolutely no clue how to execute on the power play.  Zero, none, zip, nada, zilch.  They just pass from player to player and never to a player in a shooting position.  Ultimately, they turn the puck over as Boston challenges the puck.  And then on the PK, they just sit in a box around the goalie allowing Boston to have shooting lanes. 

There was one moment on the PK that I saw so clearly.  Buffalo had three players on their blue line as a Boston skater approached with the puck.  They all fell back in unison and just let him enter the zone uncontested.  So very aggravating.

 

 

2 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

I've been to 3 games this seadon so far. It was clear at each one that the organization long ago lost the support of its own market fan base. This is what 12 years of bad hockey will do to a small market team like the Sabres. When opponents come to Buffalo now, most nights it's like an additional home game for them. 

And let's be honest with ourselves, most opponents that come to play in Buffalo, ya, it's like a warm up practice for them. Yes, our team plays hockey that badly.

 

1 hour ago, TheAud said:

@wjagand @SabreSam…if I combine your posts it perfectly describes a Bruins game in Buffalo I took my family to…three years ago. So at least at that point, for me, the answer ended up being ‘more than three years from now’. 
I fear that timeline hasn’t changed. 

 

55 minutes ago, CallawaySabres said:

Rule number 1, never, ever waste your money on a Bruins game. It is the most depressing atmosphere you can witness.

I’ve seen photos of the whole Buffalo Sabres team at Bills games (I think it was October 1st against Miami)

I wonder what that does to players, coaches, upper management and even the owner to see High Mark stadium, 15 miles away, full, loud, and rocking with 90% bills fans and 10% dolphins fans in attendance. Don’t forget Buffalo also won like 48-21. 

Then you watch a Sabres game on a random Tuesday night and you see half of the seats are blue and empty. You dont even hear “let’s go buffalo” chants anymore. 
 

Back when we were consistently good for 5-6 years I’d be upset if I missed a period of a Sabres game on a Monday night. We used to call the Vanek-Roy-Stafford Sabres soft. They would kick this current teams ass 5-0

[Scottysabres]

2 hours ago, Goldseatsaud said:

Patience lol. Since 1970 been hoping 

Me to Gold, me to 👍 

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I don't know what can change that will make this team good right now.

I like what Granatohas done, and I really like him as a coach and I'm sick of changing coaches. I don't want him gone, but at some point.... When are the forwards going to learn to play a full game? They obviously don't. And by the way that starts down in Rochester. If you make a coaching change you got to clean house everywhere.

I don't want the top 3-4 guys on defense to change. Dahlin, Power, and Samuelson I think are going to be a great... Not a good, but a great top three that will be able to control games from the back end. BUT... With a couple exceptions defenseman don't hit their prime until their middle till late 20s. Those three might form an elite defensive unit, but it's not going to happen for a few more years.

The forwards? For this team to go tage Thompson has to score 40 to 50. He's great, but is he that great where you can rely on him for that? Cozens is likable, he's full of energy, he has talent, but honestly he has been pretty bad this year, he's a train wreck in his own end, he needs to be a lot better. Tuch and Skinner are what they are.... When Tage is going they are good enough wingers to form a great first line, but you need Tage healthy and he has to be on the top of his game.

Last year kids line... Maybe when they are back together and fully healthy that gets Cozens going? Mitts... Is he good? Is he going to be here next year? Is he good when he is facing bottom paired defenseman but can you rely on him for more than that?

It's frustrating. I really do believe the top three guys on defense can be the core of a very good to great team. But I believe that Power is not playing good right now and I think those three guys need a couple more years to reach their peak. The forwards have to carry this team in the meantime, but there's just too many questions, too many things you can't rely on with them, and they either have to learn or before us to learn how to play in their own end.

The main difference between this team this year and last year...it comes down to three things: Tage, Cozens, and the power play. If those two players and the power play in general were performing at the rate that they were last year.... Most of the problems of this team would be gone. Statistically they account for seemingly 90% of the shortcomings. But was last year an anomaly? The power place certainly needs to be better.

Agree with a lot of this, but the powerplay last year was NOT good for the majority of the season.  Because they had a 6-7 week stretch that they were hitting at a completely unsustainable 34% from late October to mid-December people believed it was good all year.  It wasn't; it stunk.  Under 12% through the majority of October and under 15% after mid-December.

And, IMHO, it stinking so bad is a significant portion of the PK having one major issue.  They CAN'T stop an entry and are absolutely toast when the oponent enters with speed.  The moronic entries that the Sabres use NEVER enter with pace.  When a team like Boston or TO does enter with pace, they either have the puck behind the net quickly enough that the D panic and chase back there leaving the slot open for a quick uncontested shot or they simply let a guy like Matthews head right directly to the slot for an uncontested shot.

Until the PP is coached differently, both units will suffer.

[mjd1001]

8 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Agree with a lot of this, but the powerplay last year was NOT good for the majority of the season.  Because they had a 6-7 week stretch that they were hitting at a completely unsustainable 34% from late October to mid-December people believed it was good all year.  It wasn't; it stunk.  Under 12% through the majority of October and under 15% after mid-December.

And, IMHO, it stinking so bad is a significant portion of the PK having one major issue.  They CAN'T stop an entry and are absolutely toast when the oponent enters with speed.  The moronic entries that the Sabres use NEVER enter with pace.  When a team like Boston or TO does enter with pace, they either have the puck behind the net quickly enough that the D panic and chase back there leaving the slot open for a quick uncontested shot or they simply let a guy like Matthews head right directly to the slot for an uncontested shot.

Until the PP is coached differently, both units will suffer.

So I agree that the PP needs to be coached differently, and I certainly am not an NHL coach. But how hard should it be to not be THIS bad.  Look at the teams that are successful, watch video, break it down. What do they do that you aren't doing?  What do they do to 'set up' goals consistently that you aren't doing?  Copy it, emulate it.   Its not as if half of the league has talent that you simply don't.  Dahlin has to be near the top of the league in pure talent of D-men entering the zone and controlling the back end. Skinner has to be one of the better players with footwork and hands near the net.  VO and Thompson have got to both be in the top 30 in terms of one timers from the sides, and Thompson is deadly in the slot with his hands and reach and shot. Mitts is very good at controlling the puck along the boards and making a good pass from there. Quinn, Peterka and Tuch are kinda a PP jack of all trades...they may not be as good as any of the above players at one thing, but all are decent at any of them.   

Its not a lack of pure talent on this team, as you said it has to be coaching. Fix it.

Edited December 28, 2023 by mjd1001

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, mjd1001 said:

So I agree that the PP needs to be coached differently, and I certainly am not an NHL coach. But how hard should it be to not be THIS bad.  Look at the teams that are successful, watch video, break it down. What do they do that you aren't doing?  What do they do to 'set up' goals consistently that you aren't doing?  Copy it, emulate it.   Its not as if half of the league has talent that you simply don't.  Dahlin has to be near the top of the league in pure talent of D-men entering the zone and controlling the back end. Skinner has to be one of the better plays with footwork and hands near the net.  VO and Thompson have got to both be in the top 20 in terms of one timers from the sides, and Thompson is deadly in the slot with his hands and reach and shot. Mitts is very good at controlling the puck along the boards and making a good pass from there. Quinn, Peterka and Tuch are kinda a PP jack of all trades...they may not be as good as any of the above players at one thing, but he is decent at any of them.   

Its not a lack of pure talent on this team, as you said it has to be coaching. Fix it.

That's just it though.  Don't honestly believe that just trying to emulate what others are doing will work.  Because honestly believe (and hate saying it because it implies so much else that's not good) that the folks running the PP don't understand WHY what works for others actually does work that they'll be capable of emulating what others do except for extremely brief moments.  If you don't understand WHY you're doing what you're doing, then when the opponent counters it, you won't know how to recounter.  And, now, the PP has been trash for more than a complete calendar year.  At best, it's stubbornness; at worst, well ...

And, really am getting convinced that practacing against the Sabres PP is the reason the PK is so bad at preventing entries and why they give up monstrously good opportunities when dealing with well paced entries.  The 2 units feed off each other.  That stupid drop pass slow as molasses entry probably actually works in practice fairly often.  

You can't keep doing what you're doing expecting different results.

Am fairly well convinced that they expect that now that they're fully healthy they can start to get back into the race.  But, as last night demonstrated, even when you're fully healthy life can happen and you aren't.  And even being fully healthy, you can't continue to keep 1 hand tied behind your back (having arguably the worst PP in the league and mid-pack PK) and expect to make up significant ground.

The Bills made a coaching change in one portion of the game and have looked like a completely different team since.  They went from having an OC that knew how to draw up plays but not WHY he was drawing up the plays to one that uses plays to set up others and it made a ton of difference.  For the love of all that's good and Holy, can they PLEASE bring Bob Woods back.  (Or if not him, somebody that actually understands a PP.)  That one little change would make so much difference.

[PASabreFan]

4 hours ago, Carmel Corn said:

My answer to the question....not until the off-season.  DG has a contract for another 2 seasons, so Pegula might eat the $4 million then.  The challenge is finding an experienced HC with a proven record that would be willing to take over this mess.  Player changes will take the form of our FA's leaving and replacing them with bargain basement acquisitions.

The challenge is convincing TP to hire an experienced POHO and go away. The further challenge, that no one dreamt possible, is convincing him to commit to winning NOW and spend whatever is necessary. The E to the 3 should be a relic of the pandemic, like injections of bleach.

That's not happening. Someone's challenge should be to convince him to sell. Is Cliff Benson still living? He's the one who convinced Terry to buy his beloved Sabers. Bettman anyone?

[hockey]

11 hours ago, SDS said:

Next Thursday.

As in See You Next...?

[SDS]

7 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Bettman anyone?

As frustrated as you may be as a fan, just how bad do you think this franchise is in the macroscopic view? Last year the team was one point away from making the playoffs. We’ve shut out Colorado, beaten the Bruins, Rangers, and Vegas. And your suggestion is that the league commissioner should convince an owner to sell the team? C’mon. 

[PASabreFan]

17 minutes ago, SDS said:

As frustrated as you may be as a fan, just how bad do you think this franchise is in the macroscopic view? Last year the team was one point away from making the playoffs. We’ve shut out Colorado, beaten the Bruins, Rangers, and Vegas. And your suggestion is that the league commissioner should convince an owner to sell the team? C’mon. 

Is that your macro view of the franchise under Pegula?

[SDS]

7 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Is that your macro view of the franchise under Pegula?

No. We’re going to keep this focused on your silliness. Please state the number of times in professional sports history that a commissioner has urged the selling of a franchise and under what circumstances that occurred. Compare and contrast that with the Sabres situation.

[Gatorman0519]

At Thanksgiving this team was not measuring as anything close to a playoff team.  Going into New Years we are now nearly terminally behind in the standings (without a miraculous turn around) and need to do what this team has not done once yet this year, go an an extended winning streak and completely turn around play from here out.  There is no rational evidence to suggest such.  The attention now needs to turn towards the future and where do we go from here long term.  No way this coaching staff makes it much longer for one thing. Secondly, the GM has not delivered any significant improvement in 4 years. There are several accomplished veteran coaches on the market.  Time to go that direction imo.  

[PASabreFan]

9 minutes ago, SDS said:

No. We’re going to keep this focused on your silliness. Please state the number of times in professional sports history that a commissioner has urged the selling of a franchise and under what circumstances that occurred. Compare and contrast that with the Sabres situation.

Can I use the back of the paper?

[SwampD]

16 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Can I use the back of the paper?

Boy, I sure hope the Sabres start winning soon. I fear you may actually implode from your sardonicism.

[PASabreFan]

23 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Boy, I sure hope the Sabres start winning soon. I fear you may actually implode from your sardonicism.

I think it was warranted. I posed a question. Whether there is precedent for a league to be 1. concerned about an iconic franchise or 2. concerned enough to pressure an owner to right the ship or sell seems neither here nor there.

I imagine there is precedent. I don't have the time to do the research. Right off the top, owners have been forced out for PR reasons, which seems less weighty than for the reason that you have nearly destroyed a franchise.

[Doohickie]

When they waive Tyson Jost.

👀

[ska-T Chitown]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

That's just it though.  Don't honestly believe that just trying to emulate what others are doing will work.  Because honestly believe (and hate saying it because it implies so much else that's not good) that the folks running the PP don't understand WHY what works for others actually does work that they'll be capable of emulating what others do except for extremely brief moments.  If you don't understand WHY you're doing what you're doing, then when the opponent counters it, you won't know how to recounter.  And, now, the PP has been trash for more than a complete calendar year.  At best, it's stubbornness; at worst, well ...

And, really am getting convinced that practacing against the Sabres PP is the reason the PK is so bad at preventing entries and why they give up monstrously good opportunities when dealing with well paced entries.  The 2 units feed off each other.  That stupid drop pass slow as molasses entry probably actually works in practice fairly often.  

You can't keep doing what you're doing expecting different results.

Am fairly well convinced that they expect that now that they're fully healthy they can start to get back into the race.  But, as last night demonstrated, even when you're fully healthy life can happen and you aren't.  And even being fully healthy, you can't continue to keep 1 hand tied behind your back (having arguably the worst PP in the league and mid-pack PK) and expect to make up significant ground.

The Bills made a coaching change in one portion of the game and have looked like a completely different team since.  They went from having an OC that knew how to draw up plays but not WHY he was drawing up the plays to one that uses plays to set up others and it made a ton of difference.  For the love of all that's good and Holy, can they PLEASE bring Bob Woods back.  (Or if not him, somebody that actually understands a PP.)  That one little change would make so much difference.

This kinda reminds me of pre-Allen Bills when you would hear that the D looked great in practice ... against Tyrod 🤣or that the O had a good day ... against the 30th ranked D.

Remember all the stories about how Hasek hated to get scored on in practice? I doubt that intensity exists today in Sabreland.

[mjd1001]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

And, really am getting convinced that practacing against the Sabres PP is the reason the PK is so bad at preventing entries and why they give up monstrously good opportunities when dealing with well paced entries.  The 2 units feed off each other.  That stupid drop pass slow as molasses entry probably actually works in practice fairly often.  

I never thought of this but yeah, makes sense.  The PK doesn't practice against a good PP so its not that good, and the PP doesn't practice against a discipline PK so its not that good, and as you said they feed on each other.

[Porous Five Hole]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

 Bettman anyone?

Call me when he fixes his mess in Arizona first. 

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

I think it was warranted. I posed a question. Whether there is precedent for a league to be 1. concerned about an iconic franchise or 2. concerned enough to pressure an owner to right the ship or sell seems neither here nor there.

I imagine there is precedent. I don't have the time to do the research. Right off the top, owners have been forced out for PR reasons, which seems less weighty than for the reason that you have nearly destroyed a franchise.

Bettman works for the owners, no? Terry is an owner. What other owner is going to go to Bettman and tell him he really needs to make one of their competitors better?

Basically, we’re *****.

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

I think it was warranted. I posed a question. Whether there is precedent for a league to be 1. concerned about an iconic franchise or 2. concerned enough to pressure an owner to right the ship or sell seems neither here nor there.

I imagine there is precedent. I don't have the time to do the research. Right off the top, owners have been forced out for PR reasons, which seems less weighty than for the reason that you have nearly destroyed a franchise.

Lol, the owners don't give a ***** of Buffalo is bad. Lmao, what delusional thoughts.

7 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Bettman works for the owners, no? Terry is an owner. What other owner is going to go to Bettman and tell him he really needs to make one of their competitors better?

Basically, we’re *****.

Exactly. It's nonsensical.