A (hopefully) rational discussion on the State of the Sabres - what say you?

[Spoonman]

Sabre Spacers - 

I am asking for thoughtful replies, as we look at this version of the Sabres. 

FAIR WARNING: 3 min read (insert jokes here), 30 min for some of you! Sorry no .ppt presentation today.

Thinking about the Sabres: 

• Talent on roster ✅
• Fan support (though legitimately frustrated beyond human comprehension) ✅
•  Team friendly contracts ✅
•  Assets - picks, prospects ✅
•  GMKA
  • Built up the prospect pool to a top one in NHL ✅
  • Got good/one day great (?) players from Jack, Rino, Risto trades (grade - Inc.)
    • Isak Rosen  
    • Anton Wahlberg (C-SWE 18yr) - playing in SHL (Malmö Redhawks) will be on Team SWE at 2024 World Jrs
    • Devon Levi
    • Juri Kulich
    • Alex Tuch
    • Payton Krebs
    • Noah Östlund (C-SWE 19yr) - playing in SHL (Växjö Lakers HC) - should be 1C for SWE at 2024 World Jrs next week, BUF/ROCH next yr
    • Jordan Greenway
  • 2023-24 Roster - ran it all back from a team that finished 1 pt out of playoffs. 
  • Resigned everyone back sans Hinostrosa  ❌
    • Okposo - OK C, last yr
    • Girgensons
    • Jost
  • Free Agents - not close to enough, need winning experience that can play ❌
    • Eric Johnson
    • Kyle Clifton
  • Trades (inc. pending future moves in '23-24😞
    • Did not move Olofsson (probably due to Quinn injury?)
    • Eric Robinson 
• Coaching:
  • March 2021 - 2022/23 season: focus on development - last year showed that players can develop and perform
  • 2023-24 season - team openly discussed playoffs as goal, development not ONLY goal
  • Some takes:
    • GMKA IMO
      • loves his picks and players too much (we are the Overstock.com of NHL!), not using as commodities to trade for difference makers (you know what FLA, NJ, etc… have done to get stars to their teams, for example)
      • Cannot get FA’s of any note to BUF (E Johnson roomies w Okie who convinced him to come, and Clifton a USA dev team connection to Meatballs)
      • Injuries are exposing lack of NHL experience and depth, which was not addressed in off season
    • Granato and staff
      • Really good at unlocking & developing talent ✅
      • Great guy(s)
      • He and staff are all first time (except G coach)
      • Has helped build A Sabres Culture in the club, right one?
      • Does not seem to be an X’s and O’s nor motivator on bench (keeps saying he allows guys to figure it out…..not happening) ❌
      • Injuries not helping his efforts, but everyone has injuries
      • Leadership includes being a good listener, supportive, and to care, but it ALSO includes direction, feedback, correction, accountability, and results.
        • Accountability/Consistency seem to be second to his and GMKA form of “culture” ❌
    • Players
      • They say they care, are "accountable", and working hard to get better
      • Don’t show it on the ice consistently ❌
      • Goaltending (UPL and Levi)is not the issue ✅ 
        • that said, Comrie needs to be released, and make room for another F (question is who?)
        • if someone gets hurt, Tokarski has a better save % in more games with Sabres than Comrie
      • Not consistently working as a 5 man unit ❌
        • Not seeing effort on back check
        • Too much gliding
        • Not accounting for D activating in the O zone,  leading to odd man rushes the other way
        • Sabres CAN get on boards and work, but get pushed around, play soft, look for pretty plays (hey love’em), but need to get dirty goals….due to
        • Not going to dirty areas consistently (sans 18yr, 5’10” 170lb Benson) 
        • I would say sit guys, but who first? Also, cannot even ice a full team many nights (11/7 lineups)

What's my answer?

I am no GM, but here goes.

Something needs to change ASAP.  

• GMKA needs to put on his big boy pants and :
  • make some substantive trade for NHL quality player (see NJ and FLA making bold moves last year to get difference makers)
  • DO NOT bring back any UFAs
  • Face Facts:
    • the Sabres are seen as a soft team without leadership and guts it takes to win (Jack, Rino, O'Reilley all gonzo due in part to this)
    • 20 something  yr old players today were pre-teens  the last time Sabres got to the playoffs 
    • Sabres need a stronger message with NHL players that this is a different Sabres team, truly committed to winning
      • This will REQUIRE trades, as FAs worth anything will not come to Buffalo as currently constructed
  • Seriously look at changes in the coaching staff, starting with Don. I like Donny, but not sure he is the answer for this team to take next steps.
    • Need a culture person with a strong hand to provide accountability, structure, and guide this group. 

What say you?

 

[thewookie1]

My only issue with this has to be the insistence on NJ and FLA making substantial moves being instrumental. NJ hasn’t exactly looked great this year and Meier has been a borderline bust so far for the Devils. 
Florida however is a oddball due to their locale and taxes being an immediate draw but furthermore there’s zero chance we make a trade on par with the Tkachuk deal.

 

Part of the issue we find ourselves in is the inability to supplement the core with still effective vets while simultaneously gaining some degree of backbone. Problem being players that fit that role either are disinterested in coming here, washed up, or not available. Additionally said players either want absurd contracts or already have them. TSN said Lindholm turned down 8x9mil practically in the off-season which more or less sinks that ship. One of the few players who’d fit this role to a T is Boone Jenner whom happens to already be the captain of Columbus and unlikely available to begin with. 

[Quint]

I was listening to a discussion about other teams' cultures, I forgot where... Teams like Chicago, NJ, NYR and others have HOF players come back in meaningful roles with their organizations and make accountability an issue by projecting their sheer excellence in the room. The Sabres on the other hand don't seem to have any coaches that carry weight in the room. The last one was Ruff but that model was abandoned. We've discussed guys like Matt Ellis, who has never led a PP and was a mediocre player, leading our team into the abyss. He might know what to say but as for motivating these guys to be a Sabre...he was a journeyman with no particular shine or reputation to him.

I always wondered why Gilbert Perreault has never had a meaningful role with the team. Could he not be a better PP coach than Ellis? Is it because he still has poor command of the English language? Is it because he just relied on instinct and he can't explain instinct to players? (The story Danny Gare told about him...Danny once asked for help on his moves and Gilbert said: "Danny, I don't know how to do dem, I just do dem.") Does he have personal problems? I know Gilbert has been on and off with the organization but why was he never given a chance? Just singing at certain games is a real shameful waste of talent. There are other ex-Sabre greats like Hasek, Andreychuk, Peca, Dudley, Luce, Ramsey, Meehan,  and many more who might make the Sabres players more accountable and more Sabre-like, as in recapturing past pride and success.

As we have discussed many times, the Sabres organization used to have pride in being a tough out as a small market. Before Pegula, the Sabres were a very respectable franchise, and were fourth in all-time winning percentage among all NHL teams. The Pegula era has dropped them to 12th. Maybe Pegula by his being the Hindenburg of Hockey has thrown any kind of hope of progress out the window. 

The best I can offer at this point is if Pegula sells the team.

[Scottysabres]

17 minutes ago, Quint said:

I was listening to a discussion about other teams' cultures, I forgot where... Teams like Chicago, NJ, NYR and others have HOF players come back in meaningful roles with their organizations and make accountability an issue by projecting their sheer excellence in the room. The Sabres on the other hand don't seem to have any coaches that carry weight in the room. The last one was Ruff but that model was abandoned. We've discussed guys like Matt Ellis, who has never led a PP and was a mediocre player, leading our team into the abyss. He might know what to say but as for motivating these guys to be a Sabre...he was a journeyman with no particular shine or reputation to him.

I always wondered why Gilbert Perreault has never had a meaningful role with the team. Could he not be a better PP coach than Ellis? Is it because he still has poor command of the English language? Is it because he just relied on instinct and he can't explain instinct to players? (The story Danny Gare told about him...Danny once asked for help on his moves and Gilbert said: "Danny, I don't know how to do dem, I just do dem.") Does he have personal problems? I know Gilbert has been on and off with the organization but why was he never given a chance? Just singing at certain games is a real shameful waste of talent. There are other ex-Sabre greats like Hasek, Andreychuk, Peca, Dudley, Luce, Ramsey, Meehan,  and many more who might make the Sabres players more accountable and more Sabre-like, as in recapturing past pride and success.

As we have discussed many times, the Sabres organization used to have pride in being a tough out as a small market. Before Pegula, the Sabres were a very respectable franchise, and were fourth in all-time winning percentage among all NHL teams. The Pegula era has dropped them to 12th. Maybe Pegula by his being the Hindenburg of Hockey has thrown any kind of hope of progress out the window. 

The best I can offer at this point is if Pegula sells the team.

Perreault is the defacto face of the overall organization for us fans who remember him and maybe for those it was passed down to, but outside of Buffalo he's not even a thought to most hockey fans in general. A part of that is lack of the ultimate prize success, a part of that is anyone's guess, but he was, is and always will be the gold standard of performance the Sabres skill players should aspire to imho.

As for Pegula's Era, well meaning as such as it is, yes, it's been a complete disaster. I'd go so far as to say the Sabres organization has been a top 5 sports franchise all time nose dive with him as owner. But that's just my assessment of it, others may and most assuredly do view it differently.

All that said, to @Spoonman op, I'm sure there are several avenues to take to climb out of this mess. New ownership? Maybe. But I'm looking at the here and now, and in that regards the answer is in the existing roster currently here. Play better hockey, set the bar high for players performances and hold them accountable, same for coaching staff and management team. This organization lacks current accountability imho. They are going the patience route, and ya, I get why. But that isn't going to bring immediate end to the fan base frustrations. It is however, what we are going to endure, like it or not.

[Marvin]

The Sabres have been missing a line's worth of top-6ers most of the season.  I think Tuch, Thompson, and Cozens have been playing hurt.  No team without an embarrassment of NHL-ready riches could handle this level of injuries from the farm.  The 4th line on the team has been at best marginal NHLers or AHL-NHL tweeners.  IMHO, until this team is close to healthy, we will be seeing more of the same.

[Jorcus]

28 minutes ago, Quint said:

I was listening to a discussion about other teams' cultures, I forgot where... Teams like Chicago, NJ, NYR and others have HOF players come back in meaningful roles with their organizations and make accountability an issue by projecting their sheer excellence in the room. The Sabres on the other hand don't seem to have any coaches that carry weight in the room. The last one was Ruff but that model was abandoned. We've discussed guys like Matt Ellis, who has never led a PP and was a mediocre player, leading our team into the abyss. He might know what to say but as for motivating these guys to be a Sabre...he was a journeyman with no particular shine or reputation to him.

I always wondered why Gilbert Perreault has never had a meaningful role with the team. Could he not be a better PP coach than Ellis? Is it because he still has poor command of the English language? Is it because he just relied on instinct and he can't explain instinct to players? (The story Danny Gare told about him...Danny once asked for help on his moves and Gilbert said: "Danny, I don't know how to do dem, I just do dem.") Does he have personal problems? I know Gilbert has been on and off with the organization but why was he never given a chance? Just singing at certain games is a real shameful waste of talent. There are other ex-Sabre greats like Hasek, Andreychuk, Peca, Dudley, Luce, Ramsey, Meehan,  and many more who might make the Sabres players more accountable and more Sabre-like, as in recapturing past pride and success.

As we have discussed many times, the Sabres organization used to have pride in being a tough out as a small market. Before Pegula, the Sabres were a very respectable franchise, and were fourth in all-time winning percentage among all NHL teams. The Pegula era has dropped them to 12th. Maybe Pegula by his being the Hindenburg of Hockey has thrown any kind of hope of progress out the window. 

The best I can offer at this point is if Pegula sells the team.

 

Why do so many in here think Terry Pegula is a bad owner and should sell the team? Ok I know they have not won crap but that alone does not make him a bad owner. First things first. He bought this team because he is a fan of the sport. He did not buy it because it would help him in business or politics like other owners we have had. He committed capital to the area to improve it as a hockey destination. He has attracted outside hockey events to the area. I can not think how another owner would help do any of that. 

Pegula came into ownership with little experience, deep pockets and big expectations. Reality of sport team ownership has way of kicking sand in your face. All he can do is hire experts that sell him on a plan going forward and work within the structure of his corporation. He is on the third different track since his ownership has started. The goal is to win the cup nothing less. The win right away plan did not work, The tank did not work, so now we are on the build from within plan. I just can't see how we can scrap that and cycle back to another plan just yet. There are too many horses in the barn for this situation to not get better. Is Pegula a good Bills and Bandits owner because they win? How did he get so good at that? The answer is he is the same person. He has had better fortune with the other sports. It's all a crap shoot when it comes to ownership. You do your best to give yourself a chance but there is an element of luck to it. 

I am glad Pegula owns this team and the Bills. I have no doubt he wants this team to win as much as we all do. It's been a rough 12 years but the next 12 might be great.   

[Scottysabres]

11 minutes ago, Jorcus said:

 

Why do so many in here think Terry Pegula is a bad owner and should sell the team? Ok I know they have not won crap but that alone does not make him a bad owner. First things first. He bought this team because he is a fan of the sport. He did not buy it because it would help him in business or politics like other owners we have had. He committed capital to the area to improve it as a hockey destination. He has attracted outside hockey events to the area. I can not think how another owner would help do any of that. 

Pegula came into ownership with little experience, deep pockets and big expectations. Reality of sport team ownership has way of kicking sand in your face. All he can do is hire experts that sell him on a plan going forward and work within the structure of his corporation. He is on the third different track since his ownership has started. The goal is to win the cup nothing less. The win right away plan did not work, The tank did not work, so now we are on the build from within plan. I just can't see how we can scrap that and cycle back to another plan just yet. There are too many horses in the barn for this situation to not get better. Is Pegula a good Bills and Bandits owner because they win? How did he get so good at that? The answer is he is the same person. He has had better fortune with the other sports. It's all a crap shoot when it comes to ownership. You do your best to give yourself a chance but there is an element of luck to it. 

I am glad Pegula owns this team and the Bills. I have no doubt he wants this team to win as much as we all do. It's been a rough 12 years but the next 12 might be great.   

I concur with most of this. But Terry needs to get it under control, and maybe now, with Adams, he may very well. But no one can actually blame the fans for feeling upset about the situation. We are passionate, we have pride, we care.

[K-9]

You lost me at “rational discussion.”

[Believer]

8 minutes ago, Jorcus said:

I am glad Pegula owns this team and the Bills. I have no doubt he wants this team to win as much as we all do. It's been a rough 12 years but the next 12 might be great.   

Agree… Think Pegula was frustrated with his past GMs… and was charmed by KA… No hockey operations experience made for a bad decision… KA put all his chips on youth and speed at the expense of experience and grit… Publicly promoted the playoffs this season without the roster to deliver… Failed to package top pieces to attract blockbuster trading partners… Went the cheap route with tier two additions… So many rookie GM mistakes like his rookie coaches and rookie players made and continue to make… 

Franchise needs an identity reset only possible with proven Cup-hungry coaches… and several proven Cup-hungry veterans added to the roster… Will they come to Buffalo?…

Money solves most problems… except when your unproven GM makes multi millionaires of unproven kids.

Will be astonished if either Pegula or KA step up to change course.

[PerreaultForever]

The list of mistakes is long. Really long, but there is one repetitive constant. No experienced hockey guy in charge of the operation. List of inexperienced or limited NHL experience coaches and green GMs. The constant failure has made the franchise a no trade list priority and so they are stuck with drafted rookies and very little leadership. This produces limited accountability and a losing culture. 

The problem, is Pegula. 

[DarthEbriate]

Have a seat next to ol' GM Sheevyn. Let's rap. Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Pegulas the Wise? Hmm. I thought not. It's not a story the 'Spacers would tell you....

Oh, oh, rational? My mistake. Carry on.

[GASabresIUFAN]

The Sabres general approach to the rebuild is a good one on paper.  Draft well and develop young players, build a core group, lock up the core to reasonable contracts, and fill the roster holes with veterans. 

For the most part KA, with help from Jbot's drafting and trades, has done a reasonable job on the draft and development part.  He has signed his core to decent contracts and he maintains a very solid pipeline of players with good forwards and defense and a couple of long-shot goalies.  For the JBot haters remember that Thompson, Skinner, and Jokiharju were Jbot trade acquisitions and Cozens, Ryan Johnson, Dahlin, Samuelson, Mitts, UPL, and even Bryson were all Jbot draft picks.  In other words, the top 3 centers on the roster, the top scoring winger, the 1b goalie, and 3/4 of the top 4 D (5/8 of the entire D) were Jbot's players.

Where KA has failed is at the pro personnel level and a willingness to move on from prospects to get established veterans through trade.

As I've said before the only veteran acquired by KA during his tenure so far to objectively improve the team is Tuch.  The rest so far from Hall and Staal to EJ and Clifton have all failed the team.  In addition, other than trading a depth prospect for the Stillman, he has yet to move out a prospect for a veteran player.  Furthermore, he has been nearly blind filling the team's most critical needs - goaltending, a top 4 D and a legit 3rd line center.

The goaltending is obvious to everyone except KA.  Since Ullmark rightfully walked this is the parade of bad goaltending brought in to bridge the gap to Devon Levi - Anderson, Dell, Subban, Comrie, and Tokarski.  Anderson was the best of the lot and gave us 57 games (55 starts over 2 seasons) because he was too old to handle full-time duty with a 3.09 GAA and a .902 save %.   Not exactly playoff-caliber goaltending.  KA may ultimately luck out now that Levi has turned his season around and UPL has been decent to good in 7 of his last 9 appearances.  However, there is no question in my mind that KA's failure to properly address the goaltending cost the team a playoff spot last season.

Defense - so far KA has brought in Hagg, Pysyk, Butcher, Lyubushkin, Clague, Stillman, Clifton, and Eric Johnson.  Clifton, who KA gave a 3 year $9 mill deal, looks like the most glaring error and that is saying something. Admittedly, I had high hopes for the Clifton signing, but he has been the butt end of awful.  Even with all these warmish bodies, our defense remains one of the worst in the league and we still don't have a legit partner for Owen Power.  Joki, who is an RFA, continues to drag down the play of anyone he is partnered with yet somehow remains in our top 4. 

Last but not least the center position.  DG has made it clear that Mitts is a top 6 winger who can fill in at center if necessary (I agree).  That means that Thompson and Cozens are our only legit NHL centers on the roster.  Jost is at best an injury fill in and Krebs seems best as a 4th line center and sometimes not even as that.  KA knew this last year yet didn't bring in a single forward in the off-season, much less a center.  With the injuries to then followed by ineffective play of Cozens and Thompson, Casey was left as the only effective center on the roster.  What did KA do to address the problem?  Nothing.   To complicate matters further, there is no near ready center prospect in the organization.

The failure to take the next step belongs to two people TP and KA. We can lay some blame on the players and coaches, and certainly, they bear plenty of blame.  Ultimately the roster is incomplete and the players brought in to complete it are failures.  That's on KA and the guy who hired him.  

Edited December 18, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[mjd1001]

The difference between this years team and last year, honestly, is scoring. They are about the same rank allowing goals, they are much, MUCH worse scoring.

The lack of scoring is due to:

1.) injuries. Tuch, Tage, now Skinner producing CLOSE to last years 'pace' but missing games.

2.) Tage and Cozens scoring rate being down.

You can't control injuries. You CAN (maybe) or should be able to rely on 2 top payers NOT taking huge steps back.  

To me that is the main problem with this team. Not coaching (directly) not the Defense (they are what they are), but the reason they are worse is scoring, and most of that shortfall is from Tage and Cozens.

 

Going forward:

I'm 'kinda' happy with the future prospect of Levi and UPL in net. Maybe not great but no longer a problem medium to long term.

Defense. Same as above. Power needs to and probably will get better.  With Dahlin, Samuelson, Power, and Jokiharju/Johson, you have a solid top 4. Your bottom 2 guys hopefully won't play much and its hard to get them to be great.

Up front. This is the weakness of the team in my opinion. Not coaching, not the D, not goaltending.  Those guys MUST score more than they are (Cozens, Tage, looking at you) and they need to be better in their own end.  I have posted on here time after time goals are scored against them that the D-mean may look like they are clueless, but often when you break down the replay the REASON the D look clueless is because they are hung out to dry by the forwards who ARE clueless.

I am very upset, like many of us, that it is like this year is another 'wasted' year.  However, I think with the tandem in net, the roster in front of those guys, this can, and will be a very good team.  Its only a couple things that need to change:

-You are paying Cozens $7 million per year, He is dreadful in his own zone, maybe one of the worst in the league, he has to be better there and he has to double his scoring production.

-You need Tage to get back to CLOSE to his production from the last 2.5 years.

-The young forward need to learn a defensive system, where to be in their own end....how to work WITH the D-men.

Do the 3 above things, and this IS a playoff team with a pretty high ceiling.  I didn't anticipate the top 2 things happening, and the 3rd....I didn't relize how bad the young forwards were, they simply have to get better (that is the ONLY thing I fault this coaching staff with, the way the young guys up front play in their own end).

Edited December 17, 2023 by mjd1001

[#freejame]

5 hours ago, Jorcus said:

 

Why do so many in here think Terry Pegula is a bad owner and should sell the team? Ok I know they have not won crap but that alone does not make him a bad owner. First things first. He bought this team because he is a fan of the sport. He did not buy it because it would help him in business or politics like other owners we have had. He committed capital to the area to improve it as a hockey destination. He has attracted outside hockey events to the area. I can not think how another owner would help do any of that. 

Pegula came into ownership with little experience, deep pockets and big expectations. Reality of sport team ownership has way of kicking sand in your face. All he can do is hire experts that sell him on a plan going forward and work within the structure of his corporation. He is on the third different track since his ownership has started. The goal is to win the cup nothing less. The win right away plan did not work, The tank did not work, so now we are on the build from within plan. I just can't see how we can scrap that and cycle back to another plan just yet. There are too many horses in the barn for this situation to not get better. Is Pegula a good Bills and Bandits owner because they win? How did he get so good at that? The answer is he is the same person. He has had better fortune with the other sports. It's all a crap shoot when it comes to ownership. You do your best to give yourself a chance but there is an element of luck to it. 

I am glad Pegula owns this team and the Bills. I have no doubt he wants this team to win as much as we all do. It's been a rough 12 years but the next 12 might be great.   

Terry is a bad owner because hes shown himself completely inept. We can rehash the entirety of his ownership, but this has been obvious since he replaced GMTM with JBOT. He invested years into a GMTM rebuild and then switched to a GM with a completely different strategy. Given two more years GMTMs team is in the playoffs. Switching to JBOT screamed it’s going to be at least two more years to the playoffs. 

Everything since the JBOT hire has simply been sprinkles and cherries. Terry showed he was inept years ago.  

[Doohickie]

12 hours ago, Spoonman said:

Sabre Spacers - 

I am asking for thoughtful replies, as we look at this version of the Sabres. 

FAIR WARNING: 3 min read (insert jokes here), 30 min for some of you! Sorry no .ppt presentation today.

Thinking about the Sabres: 

• Talent on roster ✅
• Fan support (though legitimately frustrated beyond human comprehension) ✅
•  Team friendly contracts ✅
•  Assets - picks, prospects ✅
•  GMKA
  • Built up the prospect pool to a top one in NHL ✅
  • Got good/one day great (?) players from Jack, Rino, Risto trades (grade - Inc.)
    • Isak Rosen  
    • Anton Wahlberg (C-SWE 18yr) - playing in SHL (Malmö Redhawks) will be on Team SWE at 2024 World Jrs
    • Devon Levi
    • Juri Kulich
    • Alex Tuch
    • Payton Krebs
    • Noah Östlund (C-SWE 19yr) - playing in SHL (Växjö Lakers HC) - should be 1C for SWE at 2024 World Jrs next week, BUF/ROCH next yr
    • Jordan Greenway
  • 2023-24 Roster - ran it all back from a team that finished 1 pt out of playoffs. 
  • Resigned everyone back sans Hinostrosa  ❌
    • Okposo - OK C, last yr
    • Girgensons
    • Jost
  • Free Agents - not close to enough, need winning experience that can play ❌
    • Eric Johnson
    • Kyle Clifton
  • Trades (inc. pending future moves in '23-24😞
    • Did not move Olofsson (probably due to Quinn injury?)
    • Eric Robinson 
• Coaching:
  • March 2021 - 2022/23 season: focus on development - last year showed that players can develop and perform
  • 2023-24 season - team openly discussed playoffs as goal, development not ONLY goal
  • Some takes:
    • GMKA IMO
      • loves his picks and players too much (we are the Overstock.com of NHL!), not using as commodities to trade for difference makers (you know what FLA, NJ, etc… have done to get stars to their teams, for example)
      • Cannot get FA’s of any note to BUF (E Johnson roomies w Okie who convinced him to come, and Clifton a USA dev team connection to Meatballs)
      • Injuries are exposing lack of NHL experience and depth, which was not addressed in off season
    • Granato and staff
      • Really good at unlocking & developing talent ✅
      • Great guy(s)
      • He and staff are all first time (except G coach)
      • Has helped build A Sabres Culture in the club, right one?
      • Does not seem to be an X’s and O’s nor motivator on bench (keeps saying he allows guys to figure it out…..not happening) ❌
      • Injuries not helping his efforts, but everyone has injuries
      • Leadership includes being a good listener, supportive, and to care, but it ALSO includes direction, feedback, correction, accountability, and results.
        • Accountability/Consistency seem to be second to his and GMKA form of “culture” ❌
    • Players
      • They say they care, are "accountable", and working hard to get better
      • Don’t show it on the ice consistently ❌
      • Goaltending (UPL and Levi)is not the issue ✅ 
        • that said, Comrie needs to be released, and make room for another F (question is who?)
        • if someone gets hurt, Tokarski has a better save % in more games with Sabres than Comrie
      • Not consistently working as a 5 man unit ❌
        • Not seeing effort on back check
        • Too much gliding
        • Not accounting for D activating in the O zone,  leading to odd man rushes the other way
        • Sabres CAN get on boards and work, but get pushed around, play soft, look for pretty plays (hey love’em), but need to get dirty goals….due to
        • Not going to dirty areas consistently (sans 18yr, 5’10” 170lb Benson) 
        • I would say sit guys, but who first? Also, cannot even ice a full team many nights (11/7 lineups)

What's my answer?

I am no GM, but here goes.

Something needs to change ASAP.  

• GMKA needs to put on his big boy pants and :
  • make some substantive trade for NHL quality player (see NJ and FLA making bold moves last year to get difference makers)
  • DO NOT bring back any UFAs
  • Face Facts:
    • the Sabres are seen as a soft team without leadership and guts it takes to win (Jack, Rino, O'Reilley all gonzo due in part to this)
    • 20 something  yr old players today were pre-teens  the last time Sabres got to the playoffs 
    • Sabres need a stronger message with NHL players that this is a different Sabres team, truly committed to winning
      • This will REQUIRE trades, as FAs worth anything will not come to Buffalo as currently constructed
  • Seriously look at changes in the coaching staff, starting with Don. I like Donny, but not sure he is the answer for this team to take next steps.
    • Need a culture person with a strong hand to provide accountability, structure, and guide this group. 

What say you?

 

TL;DR.  What does Layla think?
 

 

[Second Line Center]

The last collection of Sabre greats have coaching or front office roles with other organizations. 
 

Briere Drury Peca Grier 

It was the After the Whistle show that was discussing making sure legacy players stuck around.  
 

My theory as to why they aren’t (not necessarily those guys) but “the tank” turned off everyone.  The subsequent ROR trade and Cup win further embarrassed a team that already had a reputation - and it’s one that goes back decades as just a hole no one wants to play in anyway. 
 

Folks in Buffalo don’t want to hear that but it’s the truth.  And my fear is Terry’s approach to folks who feel that way about our organization and city is basically “to hell with em.”  
 

Adam’s main job has been to end that perception and he’s started by stock piling elite talent.  It starts in Rochester.  I think this was just unrealistic to believe this was the year.  
 

And if you don’t believe that then the coach needs to be fired.  Talented roster?  Not winning.  That’s on the coach.  

[In The Buff]

as far as legacy players go: we had an opportunity with LaFontaine but we know how that worked out. I've often wondered what differences there may be, had he stuck around. Would he have been able to bring in other names & would we have more respect around the league as a result? Suppose it couldnt be much worse without him.

[Spoonman]

8 hours ago, Doohickie said:

TL;DR.  What does Layla think?
 

 

She thinks @Spoonman needs to get her a Sabres neckerchief for game days, like her Bills one, and that Uncle @Doohickie should bring seat tax (chicken, but fries in a pinch!) to her too!*

*My German rottie, Layla at the Bills Backers bar ... Uncle @Doohickie watches her when I run to men's, The "taxes" are seat and delivery - a group joke at the bar for a bite of whatever when we pass food orders to each other or save a seat... did same saving a seat for e @Doohickie  yesterday, and he brought "Russian tea cookies" (a.k.a. Mexican wedding cakes).  BTW - was quite the scene with Cow fans at Bills Backers Bar, and cleared out Cows during 3rd.... Go Bills!

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Spoonman

[Jorcus]

14 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

The difference between this years team and last year, honestly, is scoring. They are about the same rank allowing goals, they are much, MUCH worse scoring.

The lack of scoring is due to:

1.) injuries. Tuch, Tage, now Skinner producing CLOSE to last years 'pace' but missing games.

2.) Tage and Cozens scoring rate being down.

You can't control injuries. You CAN (maybe) or should be able to rely on 2 top payers NOT taking huge steps back.  

To me that is the main problem with this team. Not coaching (directly) not the Defense (they are what they are), but the reason they are worse is scoring, and most of that shortfall is from Tage and Cozens.

 

Going forward:

I'm 'kinda' happy with the future prospect of Levi and UPL in net. Maybe not great but no longer a problem medium to long term.

Defense. Same as above. Power needs to and probably will get better.  With Dahlin, Samuelson, Power, and Jokiharju/Johson, you have a solid top 4. Your bottom 2 guys hopefully won't play much and its hard to get them to be great.

Up front. This is the weakness of the team in my opinion. Not coaching, not the D, not goaltending.  Those guys MUST score more than they are (Cozens, Tage, looking at you) and they need to be better in their own end.  I have posted on here time after time goals are scored against them that the D-mean may look like they are clueless, but often when you break down the replay the REASON the D look clueless is because they are hung out to dry by the forwards who ARE clueless.

I am very upset, like many of us, that it is like this year is another 'wasted' year.  However, I think with the tandem in net, the roster in front of those guys, this can, and will be a very good team.  Its only a couple things that need to change:

-You are paying Cozens $7 million per year, He is dreadful in his own zone, maybe one of the worst in the league, he has to be better there and he has to double his scoring production.

-You need Tage to get back to CLOSE to his production from the last 2.5 years.

-The young forward need to learn a defensive system, where to be in their own end....how to work WITH the D-men.

Do the 3 above things, and this IS a playoff team with a pretty high ceiling.  I didn't anticipate the top 2 things happening, and the 3rd....I didn't relize how bad the young forwards were, they simply have to get better (that is the ONLY thing I fault this coaching staff with, the way the young guys up front play in their own end).

I agree with all of this. There is a few other points I would add. I am not sure what the plan was when Quinn got injured. Benson was in no way plan A for top 6 left wing when camp started. It seems like they were leaning towards Greenway but after a few good games that started to go south. He got blasted in the foot by a puck around the same time Thompson got hurt so jury still out how effective a left winger he can be on this team. For all of Bensons assets he still will need to score more goals to stay a top 6 in the long run. If Quinn does not produce upon his return or Benson does not score more it is going to be difficult to improve as whole. 

At least the goals against is trending in the right direction. The goaltending has improved. They have been clearing the net a little better lately and cutting down Dahlin's Ice time which I think will help him cut down on his self inflicted puck handling errors. The D still needs a lot of work and as you point out the forwards are a big part of that but to the eye test at least on some nights they are in a better place than they were. Then there are the nights where they look like a bunch of traffic cones set up an the wrong side of the road. Standing still, and watching the puck not the other attackers coming in from behind them. When they are bad they are real bad and that tends to distort the goals against number. 

I am with you though it's all about getting the goal scoring again. It can cover up a lot of the bad stuff.   

[Sabres Fan in NS]

The biggest difference is the coaching (I suppose KA had a say in it) decision that in order to take the next step and be competative in the playoff this season (the goal was to reach the playoff this season, especially since they just missed last season) was to focus on team defence.

Last season the Sabres won many games becaue they were scoring goals at a feverish pace.

The D game focus coupled with injuries to key offensive players (with team depth not quite where it needs to be) have the Sabres not playing at a playoff pace.

I have no real issue with Clifton being on a 3 year contract.  He will be fine.  I always give about 40 games for new players to adjust.  EJ is fine for the veteran D inspiration on a 1 year deal.  I don't know if he will be brought back next season, but the Sabres still need a 30 something year old vet on D for next year.  Ideally, I would target someone 32 that they can give a 2 year deal to be a rock solid vet back there that has a bit more left in the tank than Erik.  I have no idea who that might be.

[Crusader1969]

They need to take a page from the Bills playbook and fire an assistant coach

sorry Matt Ellis, you may or may not deserve it but you must be sacrificed 

[Night Train]

I wish contracts weren't guaranteed and we could yank a few of these bloated deals away from many who are out there floating more often than not. 

But you can't. Stuck with them. They need new leadership. A coach that will ride them hard. Win one and lose two is negative math. 

[PASabreFan]

22 hours ago, Jorcus said:

 

Why do so many in here think Terry Pegula is a bad owner and should sell the team? Ok I know they have not won crap but that alone does not make him a bad owner. First things first. He bought this team because he is a fan of the sport. He did not buy it because it would help him in business or politics like other owners we have had. He committed capital to the area to improve it as a hockey destination. He has attracted outside hockey events to the area. I can not think how another owner would help do any of that. 

Pegula came into ownership with little experience, deep pockets and big expectations. Reality of sport team ownership has way of kicking sand in your face. All he can do is hire experts that sell him on a plan going forward and work within the structure of his corporation. He is on the third different track since his ownership has started. The goal is to win the cup nothing less. The win right away plan did not work, The tank did not work, so now we are on the build from within plan. I just can't see how we can scrap that and cycle back to another plan just yet. There are too many horses in the barn for this situation to not get better. Is Pegula a good Bills and Bandits owner because they win? How did he get so good at that? The answer is he is the same person. He has had better fortune with the other sports. It's all a crap shoot when it comes to ownership. You do your best to give yourself a chance but there is an element of luck to it. 

I am glad Pegula owns this team and the Bills. I have no doubt he wants this team to win as much as we all do. It's been a rough 12 years but the next 12 might be great.   

You've contradicted yourself by saying Terry hired experts and then let them sell him on a plan. It was always the other way around. Well, there was no selling, just instructing. The three approaches to winning were and are Terry's. The first two were disasters, and the third is off to a roaring start.

You do start again with an experienced GM or POHO. That man should be left unfettered to do the job.

[PASabreFan]

Couple other things.

It's naive to say Terry bought the team bc he loved it or the sport. It's more likely there was a larger plan to establish pro sports bonafides in anticipation of Ralph's passing. "People think I'm a hockey guy. I'm a football guy."

I've thrown Terry a bone by saying maybe he's a good football guy. He has recruited in the sport. He was a power player at PSU who angled to get one of the assistants a head coaching job at Pitt. 

Everything he's ever said about hockey has been monumentally dumb, then they took the mic away.

The Bandits are an argument for Terry as a historically bad hockey owner. Unless TaroT tells me Terry's been in on lax decisions, I will say the Bandits were either dumb luck or the owner hired smart people, gave them resources and stayed the hell away.

Edited December 18, 2023 by PASabreFan

[steveoat87]

1 hour ago, Crusader1969 said:

They need to take a page from the Bills playbook and fire an assistant coach

sorry Matt Ellis, you may or may not deserve it but you must be sacrificed 

I made this same point on the Buffalo Bills thread.  Look at the improvement in the Bills since they fired Dorsey.  If they don't want to fire Granato, identify the assistant coaches that are holding the team back and make changes immediately.