Terry Pegula named Sabres President; PSE separating Bills and Sabres

[That Aud Smell]

6 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

It's a summarized paraphrase of the original Sabres tweet so, no.

The organization’s press release was garbage and subsequent reporting has brought clarity. That is, that PSE is dissolving and, thus, the Bills and Sabres are being divested therefrom.

Edited August 29, 2023 by That Aud Smell

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

I've thrown Terry a bone for the Bills. I think he is a football guy, maybe a very good one, and the Bills have benefited.

However in sports I think he's 1-1. Not 3-1 or 4-1 or whatever record you're suggesting. Has he really been involved in those minor franchises? If anything they're a testament to letting the pros do their job.

At the end of the day, under the Pegulas the Sabres have been a disaster, the Bandits rose back to where they were back in the 90's and 00's, the Bills lingered in mediocrity the 1st 2 years but have been very good since, the Amerks have gone from near disaster to winning playoff rounds, and the Kin-ig-hit Hawks went from expansion club to Bandit playoff toy in only 3 years.

You can say none of it is on him, but at the end of the day, again, the buck stops with him on all of it.  And fortunately, he's gotten good people in the right places and let them do their job in 4 of the 5 ventures.  And it's possible we're on the verge of his teams being 5 for 5.  (6 for 6 if you want to include getting the right coaches and trainers available for Jessica to rise to the top as well.)  (No data on the team in Jacksonville as they haven't even played a game since coming on board, so they aren't included.)  

And yes, it may very well be getting out the way of the right people.  It actually pretty much is that.  And that's the way it should be unless the owner has a particular background in the sport (and even then it oftentimes should be, as fans of the Dallas Cowpokes would tell you.)  But there are a lot of indications that's where we're finally at wrt the Sabres as well.  

[Porous Five Hole]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

At the end of the day, under the Pegulas the Sabres have been a disaster, the Bandits rose back to where they were back in the 90's and 00's, the Bills lingered in mediocrity the 1st 2 years but have been very good since, the Amerks have gone from near disaster to winning playoff rounds, and the Kin-ig-hit Hawks went from expansion club to Bandit playoff toy in only 3 years.

You can say none of it is on him, but at the end of the day, again, the buck stops with him on all of it.  And fortunately, he's gotten good people in the right places and let them do their job in 4 of the 5 ventures.  And it's possible we're on the verge of his teams being 5 for 5.  (6 for 6 if you want to include getting the right coaches and trainers available for Jessica to rise to the top as well.)  (No data on the team in Jacksonville as they haven't even played a game since coming on board, so they aren't included.)  

And yes, it may very well be getting out the way of the right people.  It actually pretty much is that.  And that's the way it should be unless the owner has a particular background in the sport (and even then it oftentimes should be, as fans of the Dallas Cowpokes would tell you.)  But there are a lot of indications that's where we're finally at wrt the Sabres as well.  

I don’t know if this is relevant to your post because it was such a small scale, but it supports your point. The Buffalo Beauts were so well-run in comparison to the rest of the league that it created a league-wide player strike to get what the Beauts players had for everyone else. 

[Pimlach]

 

1 hour ago, Porous Five Hole said:

There are a couple different ways to communicate this and Graham chose violence. 

Nothing violent here, just the truth without concern for how it will be taken.  

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

You're right.  There were many more gentle options.

There certainly were other options but the way he describes it is accurate.  

[Ruff Around The Edges]

30 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

@Doohickie could you edit the topic to reflect that PSE didn’t so much separate the Bills and Sabres as it dissolved? E.g.,

PSE dissolved; Bills and Sabres are separated as businesses; Terry Pegula named Sabres President

So now will we see new icons Two Buffalo and not One Buffalo?

[Doohickie]

23 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

The organization’s press release was garbage and subsequent reporting has brought clarity. That is, that PSE is dissolving and, thus, the Bills and Sabres are being divested therefrom.

Agree, but I'm not changing the title.  It was based on the tweet.

[Mango]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

Oh yeah, the Sabres (and their fans) have suffered immensely under the current ownership.  And the owners' non-energy related and non-sports entities have all seemed far less than ideal at best.  But the Sabres are the only one of the sports teams they've owned for any appreciable time that haven't been at the top of tier.  And, it seems (provided GT holds up) that the Sabres are poised to join those other squads.

Ownership in general does energy well and (w/ the notable exception for the Sabres) sports as well too.

I actually disagree here. There are two avid memories have around the Pegula's where I in the moment immediately thought "this isn't good".

The first is his explanation for circumventing Ted Black and meddling with Regier "Ted Black does not have a monopoly on hockey IQ".

The second was at the first game with Terry as owner. Before kickoff they brought him out and the energy was palpable. The first thing he said was something like "please sit/quiet down" and it was fairly quick after taking center field. We had spent a decade or more fearing Ralph's death and the team moving across the country. Give this community a moment to breath in safety on its grounds before you tell us to sit down and shut up. 

I just remember feeling so punched in the gut. We talked about it in our section with others around us. It just felt like he sucked the energy out of the Ralph. I think some of the energy around both franchises were better once Kim started to take on more control. Unfortunately that has had to change. 

[JohnC]

I don't know if anyone else posted this Paul Hamilton WGRZ commentary on the business restructuring. He gave a simple explanation why it was done.  He basically stated that by separating the two sports entities it simplified and clarified the finances and accounting of each operation. It pointed out that the impetus for the change was done by the person he brought in to oversee his sprawling enterprises. Terry P has gotten rid of his extraneous businesses associated with hotel and restaurant businesses that weren't profitable. 

According to Paul Hamilton, the simplifying and streamlining of his businesses had nothing to do with selling either of the franchises. Terry P basically followed the advice of the financial expert he brought in. 

https://www.wgrz.com/article/sports/nhl/sabres/hamilton-take2-pse-dissolving-terry-pegula-as-sabres-president-doesnt-mean-the-team-is-for-salesports/71-a246e7ce-f908-4596-acb6-c00b705bc0e2

 

[Porous Five Hole]

10 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

 

Nothing violent here, just the truth without concern for how it will be taken.  

There certainly were other options but the way he describes it is accurate.  

The reason why I don’t agree with this is because it ignores the material item of Kim’s unavailability.  If she doesn’t get sick, you don’t automatically come to the same conclusion.  Right?
 

Pretty easy to armchair this one given the PSE organization has been without its leader for 12 months.  
 

Tim Graham is a smart man. He wrote what he wrote intentionally. He could have written that Pegula is divesting from the non-core businesses and left it at that. Or concluded that the businesses priorities changed without Kim at the helm. 
But that isn’t what he concluded. He insinuated that Kim’s business acumen was the chief problem.

 

Then he cited 716 and Tim Hortons (completely ignoring Covid consequences on the restaurant industry).

That’s why I said he chose violence.

For the record, the article continues:

”An unspoken aspect of this series of business moves is how decisively Terry Pegula and Roth have come to the conclusion Kim Pegula’s biggest business ideas have proven unviable. Unable to work after a debilitating cardiac arrest last year, her creations and closest allies continue to vanish from the company.

Kim Pegula was the driving force behind PSE’s creation. She also brokered a deal in 2017 for her and her children to purchase 70 percent of Raccuia’s ADPRO Sports, which was sold this month to Legends, the same company to which the Bills have contracted much of their new stadium’s business, including PSLs, sponsorships, merchandise and concessions.

PSE previously sold most of its restaurant businesses, most notably the showcase (716) Food and Sport to Southern Tier Brewing Company in 2021 and its Tim Hortons location in 2020.

Other entities from the PSE portfolio, including the Buffalo Bandits and Rochester Knighthawks of the National Lacrosse League, the Rochester Americans of the American Hockey League and the Black River Entertainment, will essentially remain unchanged with their respective leadership still reporting to Roth.”

 

Ok if you don’t think that was unnecessarily harsh, but I think it was a cheap shot given my context above. 

[MattPie]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

I don't know if anyone else posted this Paul Hamilton WGRZ commentary on the business restructuring. He gave a simple explanation why it was done.  He basically stated that by separating the two sports entities it simplified and clarified the finances and accounting of each operation. It pointed out that the impetus for the change was done by the person he brought in to oversee his sprawling enterprises. Terry P has gotten rid of his extraneous businesses associated with hotel and restaurant businesses that weren't profitable. 

According to Paul Hamilton, the simplifying and streamlining of his businesses had nothing to do with selling either of the franchises. Terry P basically followed the advice of the financial expert he brought in. 

https://www.wgrz.com/article/sports/nhl/sabres/hamilton-take2-pse-dissolving-terry-pegula-as-sabres-president-doesnt-mean-the-team-is-for-salesports/71-a246e7ce-f908-4596-acb6-c00b705bc0e2

 

Interesting, and makes sense. If you had one accounting dept or whatever split between the two, there's overhead to keep track or what each person is working on and even billing hours depending how detailed they want to be. Unless you have a lot of areas to cover, it probably makes sense to just split the people into whatever org and not try to consolidate.

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, Mango said:

I actually disagree here. There are two avid memories have around the Pegula's where I in the moment immediately thought "this isn't good".

The first is his explanation for circumventing Ted Black and meddling with Regier "Ted Black does not have a monopoly on hockey IQ".

The second was at the first game with Terry as owner. Before kickoff they brought him out and the energy was palpable. The first thing he said was something like "please sit/quiet down" and it was fairly quick after taking center field. We had spent a decade or more fearing Ralph's death and the team moving across the country. Give this community a moment to breath in safety on its grounds before you tell us to sit down and shut up. 

I just remember feeling so punched in the gut. We talked about it in our section with others around us. It just felt like he sucked the energy out of the Ralph. I think some of the energy around both franchises were better once Kim started to take on more control. Unfortunately that has had to change. 

ENERGY - natural gas, prospecting, drilling, producing, etc.  Didn't want to limit it to CH4 specifically as couldn't recall if they still had any petroleum producing properties as well.

And they turned a 4 - 5 figure investment into a 10 figure nut.  They do that well.

[Mango]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

ENERGY - natural gas, prospecting, drilling, producing, etc.  Didn't want to limit it to CH4 specifically as couldn't recall if they still had any petroleum producing properties as well.

And they turned a 4 - 5 figure investment into a 10 figure nut.  They do that well.

Don't mind me, I will just be over here in the corner being an absolute idiot. 

Cheesus. hahaha

[That Aud Smell]

23 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Agree, but I'm not changing the title.  It was based on the tweet.

[Eleven]

41 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

 

Nothing violent here, just the truth without concern for how it will be taken.  

There certainly were other options but the way he describes it is accurate.  

Not the issue.  There are ways for journalists, or even sportswriters, to cover those who are ill, in a sensitive and gentle manner.  Graham didn't.  

Whether he was accurate or truthful wasn't the point.  We already think he was accurate and truthful.

[Broken Ankles]

11 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

The reason why I don’t agree with this is because it ignores the material item of Kim’s unavailability.  If she doesn’t get sick, you don’t automatically come to the same conclusion.  Right?
 

Pretty easy to armchair this one given the PSE organization has been without its leader for 12 months.  
 

Tim Graham is a smart man. He wrote what he wrote intentionally. He could have written that Pegula is divesting from the non-core businesses and left it at that. Or concluded that the businesses priorities changed without Kim at the helm. 
But that isn’t what he concluded. He insinuated that Kim’s business acumen was the chief problem.

 

Then he cited 716 and Tim Hortons (completely ignoring Covid consequences on the restaurant industry).

That’s why I said he chose violence.

For the record, the article continues:

”An unspoken aspect of this series of business moves is how decisively Terry Pegula and Roth have come to the conclusion Kim Pegula’s biggest business ideas have proven unviable. Unable to work after a debilitating cardiac arrest last year, her creations and closest allies continue to vanish from the company.

Kim Pegula was the driving force behind PSE’s creation. She also brokered a deal in 2017 for her and her children to purchase 70 percent of Raccuia’s ADPRO Sports, which was sold this month to Legends, the same company to which the Bills have contracted much of their new stadium’s business, including PSLs, sponsorships, merchandise and concessions.

PSE previously sold most of its restaurant businesses, most notably the showcase (716) Food and Sport to Southern Tier Brewing Company in 2021 and its Tim Hortons location in 2020.

Other entities from the PSE portfolio, including the Buffalo Bandits and Rochester Knighthawks of the National Lacrosse League, the Rochester Americans of the American Hockey League and the Black River Entertainment, will essentially remain unchanged with their respective leadership still reporting to Roth.”

 

Ok if you don’t think that was unnecessarily harsh, but I think it was a cheap shot given my context above. 

  Is it harsh because she is disabled?  What if the circumstances were that they were divorcing and KP never had a stroke.  Would you more readily accept TG’s conclusion that a series of unprofitable pet projects were offloaded, and people whom his ex-wife employed with high paying jobs that did not contribute to the success of the organization were let go?   Of course not.  I happen to think he has a point, but in the wake of a tragedy perhaps better left unsaid.   As the comedians say, “too soon”?  Here, probably yes. 

[That Aud Smell]

2 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

  Is it harsh because she is disabled?  What if the circumstances were that they were divorcing and KP never had a stroke.  

Yes indeed - what *if* Terry were dissolving PSE because of a divorce from Kim and not because Kim had become disabled following a medical event.

🧐

[Doohickie]

16 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Not obtuse, just summarizing the tweet from the Sabres themselves.  I will be taking no further questions on the subject.

[PerreaultForever]

19 hours ago, MBD said:

Even though Terry may have loved hockey more than football, after 11 years of losing games and money, fans griping about him/the team, and no one showing up to see them, you can start to lose the love.  Meanwhile the other team he bought is a perennial Superbowl contender, making gobs of money and drawing praise from the fans, and he may love that team more now.  I don't know but I can see it happening.  Let's just hope we don't find out.

nah, see I can't agree with that. If he's a fan of the sport (hockey) he's not going to just switch to a different sport (football) because that team did better. You don't switch sports when your team loses do you? I don't. I watch other teams, but I still watch hockey first above all else. 

[PerreaultForever]

14 hours ago, sabremike said:

Who is the single most powerful owner in the entire league?

Where is he from?

Yeah, the Sabres will be allowed to move on the 10th of Never.

Since you asked.

 

[Eleven]

32 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Since you asked.

 

You are mistaking wealth for power.  I don't think Rocky Wirtz has a whole lot of power right now, just for example...

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

I don't know if anyone else posted this Paul Hamilton WGRZ commentary on the business restructuring. He gave a simple explanation why it was done.  He basically stated that by separating the two sports entities it simplified and clarified the finances and accounting of each operation. It pointed out that the impetus for the change was done by the person he brought in to oversee his sprawling enterprises. Terry P has gotten rid of his extraneous businesses associated with hotel and restaurant businesses that weren't profitable. 

According to Paul Hamilton, the simplifying and streamlining of his businesses had nothing to do with selling either of the franchises. Terry P basically followed the advice of the financial expert he brought in. 

https://www.wgrz.com/article/sports/nhl/sabres/hamilton-take2-pse-dissolving-terry-pegula-as-sabres-president-doesnt-mean-the-team-is-for-salesports/71-a246e7ce-f908-4596-acb6-c00b705bc0e2

 

Bingo. 

[K-9]

3 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

[Pimlach]

7 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

The reason why I don’t agree with this is because it ignores the material item of Kim’s unavailability.  If she doesn’t get sick, you don’t automatically come to the same conclusion.  Right?
 

Pretty easy to armchair this one given the PSE organization has been without its leader for 12 months.  
 

Tim Graham is a smart man. He wrote what he wrote intentionally. He could have written that Pegula is divesting from the non-core businesses and left it at that. Or concluded that the businesses priorities changed without Kim at the helm. 
But that isn’t what he concluded. He insinuated that Kim’s business acumen was the chief problem.

 

Then he cited 716 and Tim Hortons (completely ignoring Covid consequences on the restaurant industry).

That’s why I said he chose violence.

For the record, the article continues:

”An unspoken aspect of this series of business moves is how decisively Terry Pegula and Roth have come to the conclusion Kim Pegula’s biggest business ideas have proven unviable. Unable to work after a debilitating cardiac arrest last year, her creations and closest allies continue to vanish from the company.

Kim Pegula was the driving force behind PSE’s creation. She also brokered a deal in 2017 for her and her children to purchase 70 percent of Raccuia’s ADPRO Sports, which was sold this month to Legends, the same company to which the Bills have contracted much of their new stadium’s business, including PSLs, sponsorships, merchandise and concessions.

PSE previously sold most of its restaurant businesses, most notably the showcase (716) Food and Sport to Southern Tier Brewing Company in 2021 and its Tim Hortons location in 2020.

Other entities from the PSE portfolio, including the Buffalo Bandits and Rochester Knighthawks of the National Lacrosse League, the Rochester Americans of the American Hockey League and the Black River Entertainment, will essentially remain unchanged with their respective leadership still reporting to Roth.”

 

Ok if you don’t think that was unnecessarily harsh, but I think it was a cheap shot given my context above. 

See the bold. My interpretation of that snippet from his article was that they couldn’t pull off the ambitious plan without her energy and leadership.  I do not subscribe to the Athletic, the entire article was not posted, and I do not follow Graham.  I do not know what he implied, but that little portion provided did not read as violent from my perspective.  

Edited August 30, 2023 by Pimlach

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, Eleven said:

You are mistaking wealth for power.  I don't think Rocky Wirtz has a whole lot of power right now, just for example...

Well I don't see Pegula having any special power either, just wealth. He's not an original six owner, not a legacy owner, not an owner of a big market high profile team. Not a shiny new owner or a flashy Vegas type market owner. Just some rich guy snowed under near a lake. League could not care less if Buffalo had a team or not. 

[Eleven]

Just now, PerreaultForever said:

Well I don't see Pegula having any special power either, just wealth. He's not an original six owner, not a legacy owner, not an owner of a big market high profile team. Not a shiny new owner or a flashy Vegas type market owner. Just some rich guy snowed under near a lake. League could not care less if Buffalo had a team or not. 

The person II don't remember who it was) who referred to the "powerful owner" was referring to Jacobs, not Pegula.