Is HC Don Granato the right man for the job?

[Quint]

Barring a total collapse at the end, the Sabres final record, playoffs or not, will be the best since the 2011-2012 season. That has to count for something. However playoff hockey is a war and I'm not sure these kids can handle that level of physicality at his stage. Granato has been hamstrung by an unbalanced roster focused on skill and speed with real lack of physicality. If GM Adams has the right idea of balancing the lineup, then this team could go places. Remember the 2005-6 team was preceeded by 2003-4 teams that were close to .500 at the end. What goes without saying is in order to succeed, this team will need a star goaltender or two.

[Buffalonill]

great development coach It's  TBD in my opinion he has to make the playoffs this year or next or hes done

Edited February 22, 2023 by Buffalonill

[mjd1001]

I think hes fine.  Development of players, that is his specialty, that is what he did, and it appears that is what he is doing here.  Is there a problem with him as far as strategy/x's and o's?  I don't know if there is or not, that might be his weakness.  If it IS, then you get an assistent coach who has that as a strength. Certain head coaches have the "I'm the head coach, things are done my way" vibe. Granato doesn't seem like that is the case with him (at least to me).  If he has a specific weakness in an area of strategy, Adams and Granato can/need to talk about that in the offseason, and if there is a deficiency, bing in an assistent to help.

I'd rather have Granato as head coach/ "CEO behind the bench" who may or may not lack in one area that you can bring in help with.......RATHER than have a great Strategy/gameday guy behind the bench that lacks in the areas Granato has strength in.

[Dr K]

Yes.

Are we really going to have this debate? God help us. 

 

[mjd1001]

9 minutes ago, Dr K said:

Yes.

Are we really going to have this debate? God help us. 

 

Well, here is the 'problem' or at least the nature of social media/message boards:

There are some people who don't like Granato. There are some people that do like Granato.  After a winning streak, the ones who like Granato will make their voices heard. After a losing streak or a bad loss, those who don't like his as coach have their time to speak.  Its the nature of things.

The same behavior happens on the Bills forum or talk radio.  When the team wins a game by passing the ball all over, people say its great they play like that. When they lose, people complain "they need to run more!"   The common complaint is that people will complain no matter what they do. That isnt exactly true. You aren't hearing people complain 'no matter what', what you are doing is hearing DIFFERENT people complaining based on the most recent events of the team.

If/when the Sabres go on a 3-4 game winning streak, I highly doubt there will be a lot of complaining about Granato as coach. If/when they lose 3-4 in a row there will be calls that he isn't the guy.  Its not so much people changing their mind...it is just the same 'different people' capitilizing in the situation to make their point.

Edited February 22, 2023 by mjd1001

[Dr K]

2 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Well, here is the 'problem' or at least the nature of social media/message boards:

There are some people who don't like Granato. There are some people that do like Granato.  After a winning streak, the ones who like Granato will make their voices heard. After a losing streak or a bad loss, those who don't like his as coach have their time to speak.  Its the nature of things.

The same behavior happens on the Bills forum or talk radio.  When the team wins a game by passing the ball all over, people say its great they play like that. When they lose, people complain "they need to run more!"   The common complaing is that people will complain no matter what they do. That isnt exactly true. You aren't hearing people complain 'no matter what', what you are doing is hearing DIFFERENT people complaining based on the most recent events of the team.

If/when the Sabres go on a 3-4 game winning streak, I highly doubt there will be a lot of complaining about Granato as coach. If/when they lose 3-4 in a row there will be calls that he isn't the guy.  Its not so much people changing their mind...it is just the same 'different people' capitilizing in the situation to make their point.

Very well said. Thanks.

 

[PASabreFan]

2 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Well, here is the 'problem' or at least the nature of social media/message boards:

There are some people who don't like Granato. There are some people that do like Granato.

I've been consistently meh about the guy. He's done what's been asked. He's a development coach. The position shouldn't and usually doesn't exist in the NHL but here we are. He's managed to develop some players and apparently improve the team culture and along the way has picked the low hanging fruit to bring a historically bad team to within sniffing distance of the playoffs in late February.

Last night should be evidence he's not an NHL coach. That was the biggest game in a long time. Under real NHL coaching pressure his team laid a clunker.

Like with Dahlin I'll ignore the hype and see what happens. As a Sabre fan I got time. Lots and lots of time.

[mjd1001]

If I am going to defend Granato when things go bad, I have to try pretty hard but not THAT hard.  Maybe another evolution of the NHL is that a head coach can be more of a guy like Granato and less like what we had in the past to be effective.

A counter point would be Ralph Krueger.  For the most part, he was well spoken and seemed like a 'nice guy', but as far as coaching, it was his way and his way only.  We see a perfect example of this that Granato was ON HIS STAFF but must have had very little input because the coaching style/operation of the team was so much different under both of them.

So where am I going?  Less of a 'everything runs through me' type of coach and more of a CEO.  Kinda like an NFL coach where they delegate a lof of the actual 'coaching' to experts.  Your head coach can be the one who runs the general direction of the team. When to practice. How much to practice. What to focus those practices on.  If a decision NEEDS to be made on gameday, he is the final say (bench a guy if need be, double shift someone). But beyond that, you hire a PP specialist to run/teach the PP, a SH guy for the same.  I seem to remember Ted Nolan openly admitted he wasn't that great on the x's and o's so I remember he would call a timeout and one of the assistents would have the white board setting up the play with the guys on the ice while Nolan stood back and watched.  It doesn't have to be EXACTLY that way but I think Granato can succeeed in a role like that.  Plus its not like he doesn't know x's and o's...or he doesn't know how to coach....he has been around the AHL and NHL in various roles and has seen other coaches do 'their thing'.

The GM position has evolved. Presidents of hockey Operations are psuedo-gms. Some have more power than the GM, some leave the hockey decisons to the GM but operate at a differnent level. There is no set rules form team to team.

I guess what I am saying is...if Granato isn't the best coach for this team based on how we judged coaches in the past or how we judge them today, that doesn't mean he might not be good in tomorrows (or next years) game.  And Yes, with this post I am reaching for a way to justify how he could be kept around long term if it looks like he has shortcoming...but if the game is always evolving, players are evolving, strategy and training are evolving...how about trying to be part of the evolution of coaching and how a team is coached?

Edited February 22, 2023 by mjd1001

[triumph_communes]

Home ice is supposed to give coaches the one direct chance to make their direct difference on a game. We’re the huge outlier that can’t win at home. Coaching is at fault. 

[mjd1001]

1 minute ago, triumph_communes said:

Home ice is supposed to give coaches the one direct chance to make their direct difference on a game. We’re the huge outlier that can’t win at home. Coaching is at fault. 

The fact that the team has such a good record on the road (4th best in the league I think), can you also say that that is the sign of a great coaching staff, one that gets their team prepared so well and has their strategy so sound that the lack of getting matchups doesn't matter?  The staff has the team so focused on the road, and the team is 'less' focused at home because of family/friends and other distractions the coaching staff can't do much about.

You can argue it either way.

It evens out. If you are going to use a team's record as a barometer of coaching quality, then you need to use the entire record.

[GoPuckYourself]

50 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Well, here is the 'problem' or at least the nature of social media/message boards:

There are some people who don't like Granato. There are some people that do like Granato.  After a winning streak, the ones who like Granato will make their voices heard. After a losing streak or a bad loss, those who don't like his as coach have their time to speak.  Its the nature of things.

The same behavior happens on the Bills forum or talk radio.  When the team wins a game by passing the ball all over, people say its great they play like that. When they lose, people complain "they need to run more!"   The common complaint is that people will complain no matter what they do. That isnt exactly true. You aren't hearing people complain 'no matter what', what you are doing is hearing DIFFERENT people complaining based on the most recent events of the team.

If/when the Sabres go on a 3-4 game winning streak, I highly doubt there will be a lot of complaining about Granato as coach. If/when they lose 3-4 in a row there will be calls that he isn't the guy.  Its not so much people changing their mind...it is just the same 'different people' capitilizing in the situation to make their point.

Just to be clear not that you're saying it but I made this thread to get others opinions because although I like Granato the person I'm 50/50 with Granato the head coach but it's my own personal opinion. I didn't start this because I was pissed that we lost to Toronto I was just curious as to what others thought since he's been the HC since March of 2021 when the coach who doesn't deserve to be mentioned was fired.

Edited February 22, 2023 by GoPuckYourself

[In The Buff]

34 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

..how about trying to be part of the evolution of coaching and how a team is coached?

i actually read the whole thing & generally i agree but i dont too. The game is always changing but the fundamentals stay the same. Thats why coaches who have coached the game for decades are still able to find success today. So try to be an evolution of coaching? If thats the goal it would seem misplaced or even dangerous. Do we have the brainpower in our organization to be even capable of that? And if thats the focus, it'd mean your focus is on some philosophy you have as opposed to being predicated on what you see from the players & staff on the ice. The only thing i care about is having a hard working team that gives an honest effort, does what theyre supposed to do & represents our city & teammates in a desirable way. Winning would be nice too & making the playoffs.

Everything else like being on the forefront of this or being an evolution of coaching, i have no idea what any of that looks like. One could argue Krueger was that experiment or even Granato now given his developmental pedigree. But i know what good sound hockey looks like. Not giving away the pucks in your zone, not letting players free & undefended in your zone. Having a good faceoff guy, good goaltending etc. We still do a lot of the basic, fundamental foundational things poorly. I do know that if u coach up the simple things you can tackle the bigger things & winning makes everything better. That would be an evolution of coaching around here.

I guess my TLDR is lets just start with doing the basics competently before we think of trying to be an evolution of anything lol

[matter2003]

Starting to hear the lyrics from the song Legendary in my mind when thinking about them recently...

 

 

"A new answer to the same question...
How many times will you learn the same lesson?"

Seems they don't learn their lessons and continue to make the same mistakes and honestly I am at the point where I am done excusing it on youth and inexperience.  It doesn't take much to come out and play with energy and effort starting in the first.

They need to be better. I don't care if they lose in the end but giving up 4 goals in 10 minutes while looking like a pee-wee team isn't acceptable at this stage of the season with this team.

Edited February 22, 2023 by matter2003

[LTS]

1 hour ago, triumph_communes said:

Home ice is supposed to give coaches the one direct chance to make their direct difference on a game. We’re the huge outlier that can’t win at home. Coaching is at fault. 

Do you think the Sabres are better than the Leafs?

I really wish Don Granato could have frozen time and repositioned UPL for a few of those goals.  If he could have told Power to turn around and not change in a split second.

The Sabres were beaten by a superior team that just got even better. Why is this shocking to anyone?

There are clearly people on here who think the talent on the Sabres is far better than it is.

[Marvin]

I think most of us have forgotten how many of Lindy Ruff's starter mistakes were covered up by Hasek.  For instance, in game 5 of the 1998 ECF, the Sabres were a disaster and Ruff was consistently out-manoeuvered by the Capitals, but Hasek was unconscious.

We also forgot how much Ryan Miller covered for the Sabres' running hockey's version of The Dutch "Clockwork Orange" total football in 2005-7 -- by design, the Sabres gave up a boatload of odd man rushes where the D exclusively played the pass and Miller went 1-on-1 with the puck carrier.

The difference was both teams had a lot of veterans with more grit than talent who could handle the pressure. This team is far less experienced.

[Xzy89c]

he is for now. development of young guys going well. need to see how he coaches when the games are real. Playoffs are the test. Mcdermot proved he was not a championship coach the past couple years. Peter principal has caught up to him.

[North Buffalo]

Remains to be seen about Granato... they are sticking to a development plan.. Frustrates me because it is more about learning lessons than winning... Not sure the goal is making the playoffs this year...  getting close sure...

[Huckleberry]

Lets start this thread again in the offseason when we are actually bored 😄

[IKnowPhysics]

Take an L to the Leafs and the world falls apart?

 

Don Granato will be fine.

[North Buffalo]

15 hours ago, IKnowPhysics said:

Take an L to the Leafs and the world falls apart?

What would you expect its the great Satan... need to bring the force when Sabres go up against them... players dont get it yet.

Edited February 23, 2023 by North Buffalo

[WhenWillItEnd66]

I do not think the question is off, but the answer is IMHO, we wont know. A coach has a bunch of different jobs.... development is one and he is very good at it with the results we have seen. But, once they start becoming vets, then the coaching needs to change the way they do things to keep them improving. Can he do that, that remains to be seen. He is overall responsible for all his assistants as well. On the defensive side we are a train wreck. Definitely needs to improve there, but he may be still in development mode. 

Pretty much i am saying it is too early to tell ....but he is doing well with the kids and making the team better then the year before. Not many previous coaches we had before did that. 

[Goldseatsaud]

12 hours ago, inkman said:

That game was 100% on the players 

Not what I heard on the radio. So why can they win on road but not at home

[Marvin]

7 minutes ago, Goldseatsaud said:

Not what I heard on the radio. So why can they win on road but not at home

@pi2000 pointed out in another thread that goalkeeping is much worse at home.  How much of that is on the skaters and how much is on the goalkeepers is the question.  The only inference that I can make is that the issues are strictly mental.

[Goldseatsaud]

6 minutes ago, Marvin said:

@pi2000 pointed out in another thread that goalkeeping is much worse at home.  How much of that is on the skaters and how much is on the goalkeepers is the question.  The only inference that I can make is that the issues are strictly mental.

I heard their 2-9 at home 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I like the coach.  I think he is a good coach.  I think that he will grow with the team.  The coach and his palyers are learning to win together.  I like that a lot.

What I like best of all is that it's starting to appear that my *The Great Satan* is starting to catch on around here.

Once again for the record ... I can't take credit for the term.  It was started by a talk radio show host here in Halifax 15 or more years ago.  To my knowledge I am his only listener to pick up the term and run with it.  Dude ws born in The Great Satan and ended up going back to The Great Satan for his work.  He recently passed away.  Poor bugger.