22-23 opening day line up

[freester]

12 hours ago, Doohickie said:

TPegs won't authorize it either.  It'd be fun though.

I think the Pegulas will spend to the cap. They just don’t want to waste money on bad UFA signings like Leino etc. MAF is exactly what we need. 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, freester said:

I think the Pegulas will spend to the cap. They just don’t want to waste money on bad UFA signings like Leino etc. MAF is exactly what we need. 

My opinion: I doubt that the owners/organization will come close to the cap. It's more likely that they will spend closer to the cap floor than to the half-way point to the cap ceiling. The challenge for the organization is to make enough deals to improve the team and continue on with their austerity approach. That's how I see. The belief that the organization will sign a high profile player to a long-term and costly contract doesn't resonate with me. 

[sabresparaavida]

2 hours ago, freester said:

I think the Pegulas will spend to the cap. They just don’t want to waste money on bad UFA signings like Leino etc. MAF is exactly what we need. 

I think the Sabres will not come close to the cap next season, and likely the year after as well. I think we will see a max of 2 UFAs signed above 3 million for next year. I think the Pegulas are willing to spend to the cap, but primarily through re-signing players that have done well for them. 

[Crusader1969]

On 5/31/2022 at 11:25 PM, Pimlach said:

Disagree with the bolded.  Krebs is already a Sabre.  The other two are rookies.  I’m not counting on rookies.  Sure they will make the team and play a lot because they can beat out JAGs.  
 

We need to be stronger at center.  Eakin should be gone, he was not very good.  We need to get better up the middle.  Thompson is fine.  Mitts might make a jump.  Cozen might make a jump.  Girgs is more of. winger.  I also think we need more muscle on wing.  Look at the playoff teams. 
 

I like this team.  But I know we need more.   

I don’t think he is disagreeing with you that the Sabres could make a trade to be better next season. He is pointing out the fact the the ACTUAL GM has stated many many many times he isn’t going to block any of his prospects.  So bringing in a forward isn’t going to happen.   He has 12 now that will be on the opening lineup in October 

[Crusader1969]

On 5/31/2022 at 11:29 PM, dudacek said:

What has Adams repeatedly said that has convinced you he is not going to add a forward?

Is it the “blocking”, the caring about the future as much as the present, and the giving his young players room to grow together?

Because if he doesn’t think of, say, Casey and Victor as “his” young players and trades them for, say, a 24-year centre he is planning to sign for 7 years, who is he blocking, and how is that preventing a young core from growing together, or sacrificing the future?

I mean I mostly agree with your basic beats on this, but I fail to see the evidence supporting your certitude.

Related, but more pointed, when has Adams ever specifically talked about his forwards?

He’s talked repeatedly about blocking the paths of his prospects.  His prospects happen to be forwards.  Sure if he wants to move from Olofsson and / or Mitts then of course he will have to bring someone else in

i believe he may add guys to be the 13th and 14th forward nothing more 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Crusader1969 said:

He’s talked repeatedly about blocking the paths of his prospects.  His prospects happen to be forwards.  Sure if he wants to move from Olofsson and / or Mitts then of course he will have to bring someone else in

i believe he may add guys to be the 13th and 14th forward nothing more 

I think his forward decisions will boil down to if we carry 14 forwards and who those extras are.

I keep vacillating between 13 or 14 and it may ultimately depend on how Bjork, Quinn and JJP do in camp and whether they re-sign Vinnie or some other quality depth forward.  

Right now I’m siding toward 13 with  Vinnie going elsewhere and R2 as the 13th with Bjork waived and if he clears sent to Rochester.  

Edited June 2, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[Carmel Corn]

4 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

I don’t think he is disagreeing with you that the Sabres could make a trade to be better next season. He is pointing out the fact the the ACTUAL GM has stated many many many times he isn’t going to block any of his prospects.  So bringing in a forward isn’t going to happen.   He has 12 now that will be on the opening lineup in October 

I like GMKA, but I hope you are wrong about this.  First of all, a credible GM should be open to making the team better and not relying solely on his pipeline development as the only means to do so.  Second, I agree with Punch, even if our prospects develop, there is a certain element lacking in terms of players who can win tough 1-on-1 battles, which may require more size and tenacity than our prospect pool.  He needs to open to making deals to bring us elements of what we may lack, especially for playoff style hockey.

[Flashsabre]

https://mobile.twitter.com/shmerriman

who has some Sabres connections said he heard that Peca will probably be behind an NHL bench as an assistant coach next season, either with the Sabres or another organization. 

I hope they move him up to the Sabres. He would be a huge help with the centres, faceoffs and the PK.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Flashsabre

[thewookie1]

30 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/shmerriman

who has some Sabres connections said he heard that Peca will probably be behind an NHL bench as an assistant coach next season, either with the Sabres or another organization. 

I hope they move him up to the Sabres. He would be a huge help with the centres, faceoffs and the PK.

Hmm?

[GASabresIUFAN]

I’ve been thinking about for the forwards will play out this fall and came away with two key questions. 1) Who will be are 4 starting centers in the fall?  2) How will DG allocate Quinn and JJP?

Centers

I think we can write Thompson and Mitts in pen as the No.1 and No.2 centers.

The debates comes down to how does management view Krebs, Cozens, Asplund and Girgensons.  All 4 guys can play center or wing.  Cozens (and Asplund )looked great on the wing at the worlds.  Girgensons is our best returning faceoff guy, but I expect continued improvement from TnT and Mitts in that area.  I also thought Krebs looked more comfortable in the middle. Asplund is also our best defensive forward and I can see management wanting him to anchor a shutdown line. Right now my current thinking is TnT, Mitts, Girgensons and Krebs.  

The Kids

Where do JJP and Quinn when they make the team? Does DG ease them in if he can or does just drop them in the deep end like he did Power?  Right now, I’m thinking a kiddie corps line of JJP Krebs and Quinn might be fun to watch grow, but the I don’t think DG would go with that much inexperience on one line.  That said, would be easier to play JJP and Quinn together to carry over some of their Amerks’ chemistry?  Also given our forward group’s lack of experience in general, how much choice is there? 

Our most experienced forwards are KO (909 games), Skinner (853), Zemgus (545), and Tuch (305).  The next group is Tnt (223), Mitts (195)  VO (188) and Cozens (120).  Last are the guys with one year or less of experience Asplund (80), Krebs (61), Quinn (2) and JJP (2).

 

[dudacek]

I am reminded of that old quote about “you don’t really know what an NHL player will be until he’s got at least 200 games under his belt.

Our 4th most veteran forward has just over 300.

Something to think about when passing judgement on guys like Mitts, Asplund, Olofsson, and even Cozens, who feel like they’ve been around forever.

[Doohickie]

I would put Krebs at center with JJ and Quinn and see how that works as a third line.  I'm thinking something like Vanek-Roy-Afinogenov.

[GASabresIUFAN]

33 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I am reminded of that old quote about “you don’t really know what an NHL player will be until he’s got at least 200 games under his belt.

Our 4th most veteran forward has just over 300.

Something to think about when passing judgement on guys like Mitts, Asplund, Olofsson, and even Cozens, who feel like they’ve been around forever.

It’s why I posted the numbers and why I think Cozens and Mitts are two key players this coming season.

29 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I would put Krebs at center with JJ and Quinn and see how that works as a third line.  I'm thinking something like Vanek-Roy-Afinogenov.

My first thought was of the Vanek Roy Max line when I posted my question, but Max had already played 332 games before Vanek showed up.  A VO Krebs Quinn line would be more analogous. 

Edited June 15, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[dudacek]

The line combos will be interesting.

Assuming good health, I’m really interested in how adding inexperienced skill in Quinn and Peterka over filler like Eakin/Hayden/Bjork changes his deployment approach.

 

[Taro T]

21 minutes ago, dudacek said:

The line combos will be interesting.

Assuming good health, I’m really interested in how adding inexperienced skill in Quinn and Peterka over filler like Eakin/Hayden/Bjork changes his deployment approach.

 

Well, really am hoping we see Granato juggle the lines a bit based on what the opponent's strengths are.

We all seem to romanticize the Roy-Afinogenov-Vanek line, but Roy spent a fair amount of time on Drury's wing & Connolly centered it some.  There were other tweaks as well at times.

They aren't seasoned enough to give the top teams fits, but they'll have enough skill, if not necessarily grit (though there are a few gritty players that an contribute), to go from a balanced 4 line rolling team looking to wear the opponent out to a 3 line strong 1st line, strong checking line, match up 3rd line v 3rd line make sure no line is overmatched squad as situations dictate.

And that flexibility can help take a lot of teams out of their game.  Get a defensive C, a Hinostroza or better to help mix & match the middle 6, a D to make Power's 20+ minutes a game a consistent net positive, & a real goaltender and with a bit of luck on the health side (which they seem due for) and this team will surprise some people.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Well, really am hoping we see Granato juggle the lines a bit based on what the opponent's strengths are.

We all seem to romanticize the Roy-Afinogenov-Vanek line, but Roy spent a fair amount of time on Drury's wing & Connolly centered it some.  There were other tweaks as well at times.

They aren't seasoned enough to give the top teams fits, but they'll have enough skill, if not necessarily grit (though there are a few gritty players that an contribute), to go from a balanced 4 line rolling team looking to wear the opponent out to a 3 line strong 1st line, strong checking line, match up 3rd line v 3rd line make sure no line is overmatched squad as situations dictate.

And that flexibility can help take a lot of teams out of their game.  Get a defensive C, a Hinostroza or better to help mix & match the middle 6, a D to make Power's 20+ minutes a game a consistent net positive, & a real goaltender and with a bit of luck on the health side (which they seem due for) and this team will surprise some people.

It makes so much sense it has to be the plan right?

We can't have another Botterill in charge, right?

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

It makes so much sense it has to be the plan right?

We can't have another Botterill in charge, right?

Let's hope so.

[Doohickie]

10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It’s why I posted the numbers and why I think Cozens and Mitts are two key players this coming season.

My first thought was of the Vanek Roy Max line when I posted my question, but Max had already played 332 games before Vanek showed up.  A VO Krebs Quinn line would be more analogous. 

[Taro T]

Bump.

Still sticking w/ the guess from page 1.

Well, minus the goalies. 😉

 

[Taro T]

With Skinner, Thompson, Tuch, Asplund, Mittelstadt, Olofsson, Cozens, Okposo, Girgensons pretty much locks to be in the top 12 on opening night and Krebs, Quinn, Peterka, & Hinostroza vying for the other 3 spots; and with Dahlin, Samuelsson, Power, Jokiharju, & Lyubuskin pretty much locks to be in the top 6 with Bryson, Pilut, Fitzgerald, & the 3 tweeners vying for the 6th spot; and Comrie & Anderson between the pipes; this lineup when healthy might actually finally have ALL 20 spots filled with ACTUAL NHLers and if the don't IMHO at most they're only shy a 6 D, 12th F, or backup goalie (or some combination).  And this is with Adams still having nearly 3 months & $19MM in cap space to fill those last holes/ all depth.

It seems this will at most be the 2nd time since the Pegulas owned the team and possibly only the 1st time since then that we've been able to say the entire game night lineup is comprised of NHLers.  Which is a good thing to finally have once again.

Were there any other Sabres teams since we were told there will be suffering that are this deep?  Ottomh, can't think of any.

[JohnC]

38 minutes ago, Taro T said:

With Skinner, Thompson, Tuch, Asplund, Mittelstadt, Olofsson, Cozens, Okposo, Girgensons pretty much locks to be in the top 12 on opening night and Krebs, Quinn, Peterka, & Hinostroza vying for the other 3 spots; and with Dahlin, Samuelsson, Power, Jokiharju, & Lyubuskin pretty much locks to be in the top 6 with Bryson, Pilut, Fitzgerald, & the 3 tweeners vying for the 6th spot; and Comrie & Anderson between the pipes; this lineup when healthy might actually finally have ALL 20 spots filled with ACTUAL NHLers and if the don't IMHO at most they're only shy a 6 D, 12th F, or backup goalie (or some combination).  And this is with Adams still having nearly 3 months & $19MM in cap space to fill those last holes/ all depth.

It seems this will at most be the 2nd time since the Pegulas owned the team and possibly only the 1st time since then that we've been able to say the entire game night lineup is comprised of NHLers.  Which is a good thing to finally have once again.

Were there any other Sabres teams since we were told there will be suffering that are this deep?  Ottomh, can't think of any.

Assuming that the Skinner/Thompson/Tuch line stays in tact as our first line it looks like there is enough talent to configure an A second line and a B second line where they will be on the ice for nearly the same amount of time. That's a reflection of the talent pool increasing. For the past number of years, players were playing on lines and defensive pairings above their talent level. That is changing because more players and better players are competing for those higher lines and pairings. 

Edited July 16, 2022 by JohnC

[Taro T]

12 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Assuming that the Skinner/Thompson/Tuch line stays in tact as our first line it looks like there is enough talent to configure an A second line and a B second line where they will be on the ice for nearly the same amount of time. That's a reflection of the talent pool increasing. For the past number of years, players were playing on lines and defensive pairings above their talent level. That is changing because more players and better players are competing for those higher lines and pairings. 

IMHO, depending upon how Granato deploys the skaters onto the 2nd - 4th lines, and again hopefully it changes based upon opponent, rather than just having 2 & 3 getting balanced ice time, all 3 of those lines could be comparable.

And truthfully, could see Lybushenko & Jokiharju getting similar ice time too.  With Dahlin & Samuelsson getting the lion's share and Power being a solid 3rd in ice time shortly into the season, if not right from day 1.

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, Taro T said:

IMHO, depending upon how Granato deploys the skaters onto the 2nd - 4th lines, and again hopefully it changes based upon opponent, rather than just having 2 & 3 getting balanced ice time, all 3 of those lines could be comparable.

And truthfully, could see Lybushenko & Jokiharju getting similar ice time too.  With Dahlin & Samuelsson getting the lion's share and Power being a solid 3rd in ice time shortly into the season, if not right from day 1.

In addition to the lineup flexibility that you described with the added talent there shouldn't be as great a drop off when the inevitable injuries happen. This more robust lineup has more cushion to absorb injuries compared to last year. 

Edited July 16, 2022 by JohnC

[Taro T]

42 minutes ago, JohnC said:

In addition to the lineup flexibility that you described with the added talent there shouldn't be as great a drop off when the inevitable injuries happen. This more robust lineup has more cushion to absorb injuries compared to last year. 

True dat.

(Providing it's not Comrie that goes down.)

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Were there any other Sabres teams since we were told there will be suffering that are this deep?  Ottomh, can't think of any.

No.  Every team starting with 2013-4 had numerous glaring holes.

For me, the real question is how will the team perform if the 5th line and 4th pair are pressed together into extended service?

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

In addition to the lineup flexibility that you described with the added talent there shouldn't be as great a drop off when the inevitable injuries happen. This more robust lineup has more cushion to absorb injuries compared to last year. 

This has killed us for a decade.  I hope you are right.