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22-23 opening day line up


sweetlou
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I don't think any of those would entertain signing with Buffalo and KA will not overpay for some guy that will likely upset the apple cart.

Maybe Brother Nazem will sign here and I would be in full support of that.  Good player that has a lot to offer in a certain type of roll on this or any other team.

IMO, the Sabres are not where they need to be to fill in spots with UFA players, even in net.

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41 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I consider you a realist with respect to how the Sabres are managing the franchise. I agree with you that a strong argument can be made justifying spending to the cap (as you noted). Based on how this franchise has recently been run there is not a scintilla of a chance that the Sabres will come close to the cap. The greater challenge is going to be meeting the cap floor than it will be to spend money beyond anywhere near the cap ceiling. 

The below link shows that the Sabres had an operating income at minus $40 M. You have to consider the covid situation when factoring in the financial picture. The primary point that I'm making and sticking with is that money considerations are a major factor in how this team operates for the next couple of years. I agree with you that by judiciously increasing spending it will bring back greater return on investment by increasing attendance revenue but I'm skeptical that for the near future that it will happen. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/374838/buffalo-sabres-operating-income/

I’m sorry, I take all these articles with a healthy dose of skepticism. Most of them are outright guesses and this publication wants me to pay a few hundred dollars to access the sources they used.

Like you said, I largely support the Pegulas and I think they take on undue criticism and I think most of their past decisions were supported by the facts at hand. I also agree with their approach since KA was brought on board. I just don’t think they are being motivated by “paper” losses.

 
 

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10 minutes ago, tom webster said:

I’m sorry, I take all these articles with a healthy dose of skepticism. Most of them are outright guesses and this publication wants me to pay a few hundred dollars to access the sources they used.

Like you said, I largely support the Pegulas and I think they take on undue criticism and I think most of their past decisions were supported by the facts at hand. I also agree with their approach since KA was brought on board. I just don’t think they are being motivated by “paper” losses.

 
 

Yep.  The valuation of EVERY pro sports franchise (with the POSSIBLE exception of the Packers) is a guesstimate as they are all privately owned and there are very few entities (Federal & State IRS, & to a degree the NHLPA, maybe a couple of others) that have auditable access to info that goes into the numbers that get published.  

Some stuff does get made public, but a lot doesn't & there is a lot of guess work involved.

The only times we know what they're actually worth is when they're sold or in bankruptcy proceedings and info gets released as a part of discovery.

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On 5/21/2022 at 8:02 AM, Taro T said:

In the playoffs, the same could be said about R2 Rou2.  Those 2, along w/ Krebs, have been the offensive drivers.  Is R2 getting penned into the opening day lineup as well?

Except JJ been playing like this most the year.  He carried them on his back at times while the team was decimated by injuries and call ups

What’s the counter argument for not having JJ start the season in the NHL? He has more to learn in the AHL? Not ready physically? Defensive play? 
 

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On 5/21/2022 at 8:04 AM, Taro T said:

If Peterka continues his strong play in the playoffs, he is earning getting penciled into a slot to be beaten out to not make the opening lineup.  But let's see how he does versus Laval before putting that in pen.  He didn't do much in the RS game that @Weave was talking about in an Amerks thread.

Wait!  You are basing your opinion on him from a second hand account of 1 game?? 

 

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2 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Except JJ been playing like this most the year.  He carried them on his back at times while the team was decimated by injuries and call ups

What’s the counter argument for not having JJ start the season in the NHL? He has more to learn in the AHL? Not ready physically? Defensive play? 
 

The counter has been provided already back on page 2 of this thread (among other places):

Speaking as apparently one of those you're calling out, will explain why he's been penciled in as an early season callup rather than an out of the gate Sabre.

It comes down to 2 things: 

1 - he was very out of place in his brief callup to the Sabres.  Quinn looked like he belonged, Peterka not so much.  And 

2 - his play in the defensive zone has for the most part been adequate at best between poor coverage in zone to leaving the zone early looking for that breakaway that has been a large part of his offense.  Both of which will cost the team goals at the next level.

Now, that said, his play in the playoffs (which btw are quite recent and haven't yet been factored in 😉 ) is making that expectation that he won't make the Sabres out of the gate less certain.  Will wait until the playoffs are done to revise the expectation, but it could change.  And, even if it does, if he looks as out of place in TC games as he did this season, it will shift back to an e petition that he's an early season callup.

And, it isn't a knock on JJ either to say he still has some things to work on & the wings are crowded this year, especially if a Hinostroza or 2 are brought back/in next year to keep from being entirely young, so there's a possibility he isn't a Sabre on opening night.  You mention Vanek, but forget one of his teammates in Ra-cha-cha.  Pominville put up 68 points in 78 games in '04-'05 and had to clear waivers the next year and still got sent down before finally becoming a regular later in the fall of '05.  Peterka doesn't have to clear waivers.  

 

2 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Wait!  You are basing your opinion on him from a second hand account of 1 game?? 

 

No.  That was not what was said, though it could've been clearer.  That game that @Weave commented on JJ's play was AGAINST Laval.  (Yours truly was also at that game and thought he gave an accurate assessment of his play that night.)   It remains to be determined how he will play against them, and as much as we all hope he's a PPG player against them in the playoffs until he does it against them in the playoffs he hasn't.  Fortunately we get to start to find out if he can do it in less than 2 hours.

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3 hours ago, Taro T said:

The counter has been provided already back on page 2 of this thread (among other places):

Speaking as apparently one of those you're calling out, will explain why he's been penciled in as an early season callup rather than an out of the gate Sabre.

It comes down to 2 things: 

1 - he was very out of place in his brief callup to the Sabres.  Quinn looked like he belonged, Peterka not so much.  And 

2 - his play in the defensive zone has for the most part been adequate at best between poor coverage in zone to leaving the zone early looking for that breakaway that has been a large part of his offense.  Both of which will cost the team goals at the next level.

Now, that said, his play in the playoffs (which btw are quite recent and haven't yet been factored in 😉 ) is making that expectation that he won't make the Sabres out of the gate less certain.  Will wait until the playoffs are done to revise the expectation, but it could change.  And, even if it does, if he looks as out of place in TC games as he did this season, it will shift back to an e petition that he's an early season callup.

And, it isn't a knock on JJ either to say he still has some things to work on & the wings are crowded this year, especially if a Hinostroza or 2 are brought back/in next year to keep from being entirely young, so there's a possibility he isn't a Sabre on opening night.  You mention Vanek, but forget one of his teammates in Ra-cha-cha.  Pominville put up 68 points in 78 games in '04-'05 and had to clear waivers the next year and still got sent down before finally becoming a regular later in the fall of '05.  Peterka doesn't have to clear waivers.  

 

No.  That was not what was said, though it could've been clearer.  That game that @Weave commented on JJ's play was AGAINST Laval.  (Yours truly was also at that game and thought he gave an accurate assessment of his play that night.)   It remains to be determined how he will play against them, and as much as we all hope he's a PPG player against them in the playoffs until he does it against them in the playoffs he hasn't.  Fortunately we get to start to find out if he can do it in less than 2 hours.

IN INK!!! What a shot !

Edited by Crusader1969
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On 5/22/2022 at 11:14 AM, tom webster said:

I think most of their past decisions were supported by the facts at hand. I also agree with their approach since KA was brought on board.

In response to your first sentence, I think most people on the forum were buoyed by the potential of every GM and coaching hire of the Pegula era.... at the time.

I think their approach since Adams was hired is basically they've delegated authority to him in a position of mutual trust.  He keeps them informed and gets their buy-in on major decisions, but I truly get the sense that they're letting Kevyn drive the bus.  I don't think they placed that level of trust in any of the previous GMs.

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Here is my controversial offseason take.

IF the Leafs need to move Nylander for cap I would take a run at him.

I would have him play centre with Asplund and VO as a 2nd line.

He is coming into his own and will not be a centre in Toronto. Point per game player last year and the Leafs best playoff player the past 2 seasons.

I would offer to take Mrazek as part of the deal and put him in Rochester. They want cap space and a young dman that can play. I’m not giving up Quinn, JJ, Krebs etc.

I would offer #16 and Joker for Nylander and Mrazek. Would throw in Portillo as a sweetener if needed. I then sign a couple UFA RHD that are defensively responsible and can add some grit.

Willy is not his brother and has a good rep as a teammate. I think he would fit in well in the room and would breakout even more as a centre here.

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It will be easy to get to the cap floor imo. We need upgrades over Colin Miller, Jacob Bryson, Vinny Hinostroza, Craig Anderson and I'll even throw in Casey Middlestadt. We will most likely re-sign Victor Olofsson and most likely have to overpay for all of their services, goaltender especially. Quinn could possibly take Hinostroza's spot at wing but I'd say we need the rest in FA.

Im also realistic, thinking Marc Andre Fleury, Kris Letang, Darcy Keumpfer or players of that caliber will come here are a pipe dream. 

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55 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Here is my controversial offseason take.

IF the Leafs need to move Nylander for cap I would take a run at him.

I would have him play centre with Asplund and VO as a 2nd line.

He is coming into his own and will not be a centre in Toronto. Point per game player last year and the Leafs best playoff player the past 2 seasons.

I would offer to take Mrazek as part of the deal and put him in Rochester. They want cap space and a young dman that can play. I’m not giving up Quinn, JJ, Krebs etc.

I would offer #16 and Joker for Nylander and Mrazek. Would throw in Portillo as a sweetener if needed. I then sign a couple UFA RHD that are defensively responsible and can add some grit.

Willy is not his brother and has a good rep as a teammate. I think he would fit in well in the room and would breakout even more as a centre here.

I actually like that idea.  That could be a very dynamic middle six line.  And you could let Asplund and Nylander sort it out as to who should play center; both are C/W types.

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2 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Here is my controversial offseason take.

IF the Leafs need to move Nylander for cap I would take a run at him.

I would have him play centre with Asplund and VO as a 2nd line.

He is coming into his own and will not be a centre in Toronto. Point per game player last year and the Leafs best playoff player the past 2 seasons.

I would offer to take Mrazek as part of the deal and put him in Rochester. They want cap space and a young dman that can play. I’m not giving up Quinn, JJ, Krebs etc.

I would offer #16 and Joker for Nylander and Mrazek. Would throw in Portillo as a sweetener if needed. I then sign a couple UFA RHD that are defensively responsible and can add some grit.

Willy is not his brother and has a good rep as a teammate. I think he would fit in well in the room and would breakout even more as a centre here.

2 years left on his deal.  Why not be patient, see how the team develops this year. 
if the leafs flame out again next season and they know they can’t keep Nylander, maybe then you pull the trigger ….. or just wait 2 years and pay him and give up nothing. 

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1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

I actually like that idea.  That could be a very dynamic middle six line.  And you could let Asplund and Nylander sort it out as to who should play center; both are C/W types.

If we made that trade, I think I’d put mitts at C for that line and shift Asplund to the 3rd line with one or two of the kids. Asplund has the defensive ability to make a line much better overall which will help the younger players. 
 

while this may be an uncommon belief, I think that if mitts stays healthy he will put up 55 points. (I’m basing this off his last 20 games, where he was fully healthy and where he would have paved for that if he shot at his career shooting percentage).

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23 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

2 years left on his deal.  Why not be patient, see how the team develops this year. 
if the leafs flame out again next season and they know they can’t keep Nylander, maybe then you pull the trigger ….. or just wait 2 years and pay him and give up nothing. 

Or we can actually get better now. 11 years of waiting is more then enough waiting.

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27 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Or we can actually get better now. 11 years of waiting is more then enough waiting.

I agree.  However the forwards aren’t the issue.  The D and goaltending need to be upgraded.  If we bring back the current signed forwards, re-sign VO and maybe Vinny and let JJP, R2 and Quinn compete with Vinny for jobs I think the forward group will be excellent. 

However, just like this year, that won’t be enough to make the team contend.  KA must find a partner for Power and a legit NHL starting goalie.  If he has to trade someone and a pick or two to get it done so be it. 

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5 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Or we can actually get better now. 11 years of waiting is more then enough waiting.

Only to see him potentially walk in 2 years ?   Seems like terrible management to me 

 

5 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I agree.  However the forwards aren’t the issue.  The D and goaltending need to be upgraded.  If we bring back the current signed forwards, re-sign VO and maybe Vinny and let JJP, R2 and Quinn compete with Vinny for jobs I think the forward group will be excellent. 

However, just like this year, that won’t be enough to make the team contend.  KA must find a partner for Power and a legit NHL starting goalie.  If he has to trade someone and a pick or two to get it done so be it. 

Now this is the correct answer 

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3 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Only to see him potentially walk in 2 years ?   Seems like terrible management to me 

 

Now this is the correct answer 

There’s a 3 year old I hear might be a phenom. We should just wait 15 more years and make a run for him. Could possibly have a chance to be good in 2037 but that might be rushing it too.

Edited by Flashsabre
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12 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Here is my controversial offseason take.

IF the Leafs need to move Nylander for cap I would take a run at him.

I would have him play centre with Asplund and VO as a 2nd line.

He is coming into his own and will not be a centre in Toronto. Point per game player last year and the Leafs best playoff player the past 2 seasons.

I would offer to take Mrazek as part of the deal and put him in Rochester. They want cap space and a young dman that can play. I’m not giving up Quinn, JJ, Krebs etc.

I would offer #16 and Joker for Nylander and Mrazek. Would throw in Portillo as a sweetener if needed. I then sign a couple UFA RHD that are defensively responsible and can add some grit.

Willy is not his brother and has a good rep as a teammate. I think he would fit in well in the room and would breakout even more as a centre here.

I’m fine with the idea, but 1) I don’t think Toronto trades him in the division, and 2) Asplund isn’t a top six guy. He belongs on this team on a shutdown type of line. Defensive zone starts/hop on the ice against the other team’s top line when it is needed. 

If you acquire Nylander…and at 7M salary…he needs to be on your top line with Tage & Skinner. That helps Tuch too by pushing him to second line, which is probably his best fit. 

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49 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

There’s a 3 year old I hear might be a phenom. We should just wait 15 more years and make a run for him. Could possibly have a chance to be good in 2037 but that might be rushing it too.

I guess I’m looking for the Sabres to be really good for 10-15 years     Not marginally better for 2. 
 

 

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8 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

I guess I’m looking for the Sabres to be really good for 10-15 years     Not marginally better for 2. 
 

 

I think Flash makes me look like an optimist.  I understand Flash's frustration.  I've been waiting for the Sabres to win the Cup literally since day 1.  I was at the "bat" game, I was at the 1st 2 Soviet games.  I remember Perreault breaking his leg and I remember Hull with his skate in the crease.  I remember Schultz and Korab fighting it out at center ice.  

I get it.  However for the first time in a very long time, I think this team is ready to be very good.  I wrote last offseason that with some goaltending and a few D this team was ready to turn the corner.  KA didn't get me what I wanted, but kids turned the corner any way.  Now the same prescription will get these kids into the playoff race.  I honestly don't think KA has a choice.  Get the right pieces and this team has the opportunity to do something similar to the Briere/Drury team coming out of the lockout.  

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4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think Flash makes me look like an optimist.  I understand Flash's frustration.  I've been waiting for the Sabres to win the Cup literally since day 1.  I was at the "bat" game, I was at the 1st 2 Soviet games.  I remember Perreault breaking his leg and I remember Hull with his skate in the crease.  I remember Schultz and Korab fighting it out at center ice.  

I get it.  However for the first time in a very long time, I think this team is ready to be very good.  I wrote last offseason that with some goaltending and a few D this team was ready to turn the corner.  KA didn't get me what I wanted, but kids turned the corner any way.  Now the same prescription will get these kids into the playoff race.  I honestly don't think KA has a choice.  Get the right pieces and this team has the opportunity to do something similar to the Briere/Drury team coming out of the lockout.  

I’ve seen you take particular interest in goaltending for 2022-23. If the Canes go to the conference finals with Raanta and his backup, does that make Frederik Andersen available at the right price? He went 35-14-3 this year, and I have to assume the Canes could use the 4M (for one more season, BTW) in cap space.  Or can the Sabres sign Jack Campbell as a UFA?

Either move makes turning the corner a whole lot more reasonable/likely. 

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13 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think Flash makes me look like an optimist.  I understand Flash's frustration.  I've been waiting for the Sabres to win the Cup literally since day 1.  I was at the "bat" game, I was at the 1st 2 Soviet games.  I remember Perreault breaking his leg and I remember Hull with his skate in the crease.  I remember Schultz and Korab fighting it out at center ice.  

I get it.  However for the first time in a very long time, I think this team is ready to be very good.  I wrote last offseason that with some goaltending and a few D this team was ready to turn the corner.  KA didn't get me what I wanted, but kids turned the corner any way.  Now the same prescription will get these kids into the playoff race.  I honestly don't think KA has a choice.  Get the right pieces and this team has the opportunity to do something similar to the Briere/Drury team coming out of the lockout.  

My problem is people don’t want to make any moves to improve.

This idea of just wait because this group is guaranteed to be really good is fallacy. There is no guarantee this group will magically turn a corner.

I’m not advocating making stupid moves and giving up top end young talent. But if you can add difference makers that elevates the team then you look at it. This “he only has 2 or 3 years of control” is BS. If the player is good enough then sign him to an extension or deal him for a haul before he leaves.

Put your young players in the best position to be successful by surrounding them with top end talent that fits into the culture. 

You can’t have 25-30 young players. You will go nowhere with that.

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