Who Is A Better at Hockey: Victor Olofsson or Samson Reinhart?

[Doohickie]

41 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

VO is only a sniper

This notion needs to be killed with fire.

[Taro T]

Reinhart's the better player, but this one does have a hint of the Eichel Thompson Q to it.

Victor has the better shot & a deadly 1 timer.  Reinhart has a knack for getting to the net & both deflecting the puck & picking up garbage before the D can clear it away.  (Both of which very likely positively affect his shooting percentage - well more than 10% of deflections from right in front of the goalie go in, you aren't credited w/ a missed shot when you miss making a deflection, & a loose rebound w/ an out of position goalie is a higher %age scoring play than a clean, unscreened shot.)

Both are very good PP contributors in their own way.

Sam is a master at the pass.  Victor's ability here is SORELY underrated (who do you think was feeding Sam in his stint as the #1C after Jack was shelved).

Victor is the better skater, hands down.

In the past 2 seasons Olofsson has gone from a bad defensive player to someone that isn't a liability back there and actually good; not great, but good.  (Eye test.  Doubt analytics see the same improvement, but it is there.)  Reinhart has been meh in his own zone and seems to still be that way.  Lundell is very good in his own zone, so hard to fully evaluate that.

Sam has very good hockey sense.  Vic's is above average, but not at the same level.

So, yes, Sam is better.  But is he $3.5MM better?  Probably not.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Taro T
Fixing an "interesting" autocorrect.

[dudacek]

Samson

Good to see Sam getting the credit he didn't get enough of while he was here.

Too bad people still aren't seeing how good a healthy Victor can be.

[SDS]

Generational player and high hockey IQ are two phrases I wish I could be shot into the sun. 

[JoeSchmoe]

NHL.com says his name is Sam Reinhart.

Hockey Canada page calls him Sam Reinhart.

Elite prospects, Hockeydb, and Hockey-Reference all call him Sam Reinhart.

Why do so many fanboys here call him Samson?

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

IMHO it's not as crazy as it seems at first glance.

Reino was a good young player who spent his first 6 NHL years in a highly dysfunctional environment.  Like most young players, he was pretty inconsistent during his 1st 3 seasons.  His productivity took a major jump in his 4th season, Howie's 2nd and last season here, and he maintained that productivity for 2 more seasons under Krueger before stepping it up again this season on a loaded Florida team.  He'll end up this year with about 30 goals and 80 points, and 3rd among forwards in ice time on the Panthers, who are tied for 1st in the entire NHL.  That is a very good season.

As a Sabres fan, my main criticisms of Reino's game were that (i) he may or may not have been part of the problem here, but he wasn't part of the solution, (ii) he generally disappeared for lengthy stretches of each season, and those stretches coincided with the periods in which the season slipped away from the team and (iii) slow skating.  Still, he has developed over time into a very good NHL forward and I'd guess that both KA and most here would prefer he was still on the team.

This is VO's 3rd NHL season, and his first in a non-Covid, non-Krueger environment.  He was highly productive as a rookie, with 20 goals and 42 pts in 54 games, before slipping to 13-19-32 in 56 games in his 2nd year.  He's since bounced back with a fine 3rd year -- 20 goals and 44 pts in 68 games so far -- despite being out or substantially impaired for a large chunk of it with a wrist injury.  He's improved each year, he can score it and pass it, he's a very good skater and he seems like a good team guy.  If he stays healthy, I kinda expect him to score 30+ next year.

Reino is more durable, more solidly built, more adaptable, better on the boards and probably has better hockey IQ.  VO is faster, perhaps more skilled and perhaps a better team guy.  It's not impossible that VO's productivity will be more or less equivalent with Reino's as VO's career progresses if VO stays healthy and if VO's teammates improve to the level of Reino's current teammates.

Right now I think at least 30 NHL GMs take Reino, and rightly so.  In a few years though it might be less lopsided.

 

 

 

Ahh yes one of Reinhart's most ardent critics. My favorite part of this is that part 1 literally means that part 2 shouldn't matter (part 2 is not factual) and then we got my favorite and biggest Reinhart myth ever, slow skating. At least admit you aren't right about him and move on, stop with the fake slander and bad faith arguments. 

Reinhart wasn't part of the problem or solution yet his "supposed" poor periods of play coincided with the team being bad. That's just amazing logic to write that in concurrent sentences. 

[triumph_communes]

Reinhart is a better overall player, but there are many teams I don’t think would pay the salary premium over Oloffson. Oloffson brings an elite aspect to his game whereas Reinhart is an above average all around player.  Depends on what roles a team is missing.  

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

IMHO it's not as crazy as it seems at first glance.

Reino was a good young player who spent his first 6 NHL years in a highly dysfunctional environment.  Like most young players, he was pretty inconsistent during his 1st 3 seasons.  His productivity took a major jump in his 4th season, Howie's 2nd and last season here, and he maintained that productivity for 2 more seasons under Krueger before stepping it up again this season on a loaded Florida team.  He'll end up this year with about 30 goals and 80 points, and 3rd among forwards in ice time on the Panthers, who are tied for 1st in the entire NHL.  That is a very good season.

As a Sabres fan, my main criticisms of Reino's game were that (i) he may or may not have been part of the problem here, but he wasn't part of the solution, (ii) he generally disappeared for lengthy stretches of each season, and those stretches coincided with the periods in which the season slipped away from the team and (iii) slow skating.  Still, he has developed over time into a very good NHL forward and I'd guess that both KA and most here would prefer he was still on the team.

This is VO's 3rd NHL season, and his first in a non-Covid, non-Krueger environment.  He was highly productive as a rookie, with 20 goals and 42 pts in 54 games, before slipping to 13-19-32 in 56 games in his 2nd year.  He's since bounced back with a fine 3rd year -- 20 goals and 44 pts in 68 games so far -- despite being out or substantially impaired for a large chunk of it with a wrist injury.  He's improved each year, he can score it and pass it, he's a very good skater and he seems like a good team guy.  If he stays healthy, I kinda expect him to score 30+ next year.

Reino is more durable, more solidly built, more adaptable, better on the boards and probably has better hockey IQ.  VO is faster, perhaps more skilled and perhaps a better team guy.  It's not impossible that VO's productivity will be more or less equivalent with Reino's as VO's career progresses if VO stays healthy and if VO's teammates improve to the level of Reino's current teammates.

Wait... wait wait. Let's look at this more. 

First, Sam Reinhart has improved ever single year he has been in the league (not always in points but I think if we all watched him he always seemed to be just a bit better) but you deliberately discount it by taking a shot at him here while then going on to praise Olofsson later for the same thing. Calling Sam inconsistent his first 3 years is not accurate. So Reinhart is inconsistent while improving each year but Olofsson just gets a "improved each year" that a boy type of response. I like that you begrudgingly state Reinhart is a good forward while making it obvious you wouldn't want him on your team. 

Second, you go on to target Reinhart's team character. This is a player that no one has ever criticized as a teammate so you made this up completely showing bias. Literally the only person to go after Reinhart's character is Hamilton, ever other teammate and the like he has had has said nothing but positive things about his on and off ice presence. 

I could go back over the skating again but if you are calling Reinhart slow but VO fast is something. 

23 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

NHL.com says his name is Sam Reinhart.

Hockey Canada page calls him Sam Reinhart.

Elite prospects, Hockeydb, and Hockey-Reference all call him Sam Reinhart.

Why do so many fanboys here call him Samson?

His first name is Samson. Like that is literally his full first name. 

[bob_sauve28]

27 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

NHL.com says his name is Sam Reinhart.

Hockey Canada page calls him Sam Reinhart.

Elite prospects, Hockeydb, and Hockey-Reference all call him Sam Reinhart.

Why do so many fanboys here call him Samson?

Litter box cats has him as Samson 

 

https://www.litterboxcats.com/2021/8/12/22621455/sam-reinhart-florida-panthers-ink-to-three-years-deal-nhl-buffalo-sabres-devon-levi

 

The Florida Panthers signed recently acquired, restricted free agent forward Samson Reinhart to a three-year contract worth $19.5 million on Wednesday.

[Doohickie]

42 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

NHL.com says his name is Sam Reinhart.

Hockey Canada page calls him Sam Reinhart.

Elite prospects, Hockeydb, and Hockey-Reference all call him Sam Reinhart.

Why do so many fanboys here call him Samson?

His given name is Samson.  In an early interview he said that's what he prefers to be called.  (Maybe his preference has changed since, but that's my recollection from the time.)

And while we're on the subject, in an interview Granato said he prefers the informal version of his first name be spelled Donny, not Donnie.

[JoeSchmoe]

21 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

His first name is Samson. Like that is literally his full first name. 

Right, and literally no one calls him that anymore except his fanboys and his mother when he's done something bad. When he's a really bad boy, she also adds his middle name.

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Right, and literally no one calls him that anymore except his fanboys and his mother when he's done something bad. When he's a really bad boy, she also adds his middle name.

They probably stopped calling him that after his first hair cut.

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Right, and literally no one calls him that anymore except his fanboys and his mother when he's done something bad. When he's a really bad boy, she also adds his middle name.

[nfreeman]

31 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Ahh yes one of Reinhart's most ardent critics. My favorite part of this is that part 1 literally means that part 2 shouldn't matter (part 2 is not factual) and then we got my favorite and biggest Reinhart myth ever, slow skating. At least admit you aren't right about him and move on, stop with the fake slander and bad faith arguments. 

Reinhart wasn't part of the problem or solution yet his "supposed" poor periods of play coincided with the team being bad. That's just amazing logic to write that in concurrent sentences. 

 

16 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Wait... wait wait. Let's look at this more. 

First, Sam Reinhart has improved ever single year he has been in the league (not always in points but I think if we all watched him he always seemed to be just a bit better) but you deliberately discount it by taking a shot at him here while then going on to praise Olofsson later for the same thing. Calling Sam inconsistent his first 3 years is not accurate. So Reinhart is inconsistent while improving each year but Olofsson just gets a "improved each year" that a boy type of response. I like that you begrudgingly state Reinhart is a good forward while making it obvious you wouldn't want him on your team. 

Second, you go on to target Reinhart's team character. This is a player that no one has ever criticized as a teammate so you made this up completely showing bias. Literally the only person to go after Reinhart's character is Hamilton, ever other teammate and the like he has had has said nothing but positive things about his on and off ice presence. 

I could go back over the skating again but if you are calling Reinhart slow but VO fast is something.

Oh goody.  More temper tantrum gibberish.

Do you understand that "may or may not have been part of the problem", which is what I wrote, is not the same as "wasn't part of the problem?"

Do you understand that people are going to disagree with you from time to time, and when they do so it may be simply because they disagree with you, and not just "fake slander and bad faith arguments?"

I'm not sure how it's "obvious" that I wouldn't want Reino on my team when I say that he's a very good NHL forward who's having a very good season, and that at least 30 NHL GMs would take him over VO.  For the record, I would rather have signed Reino to an extension last summer than traded him.

As for Hammy being "literally" the only person to criticize Reino's character, here's Mike Harrington, another Sabres beat reporter who is around the team much more than we are, on Reino and how his teammates felt about him:  https://auburnpub.com/sports/hockey/mike-harrington-stop-with-sabres-tank-talk-as-team-begins-rebuild/article_fdd83589-9808-545f-bb4f-c721f4011b1e.html

Quote

We've heard a lot of talk during training camp from players about getting a "better culture" in the dressing room. A lot of it sure comes off as not-so-veiled comments about Reinhart and Eichel and how they operated like things were never their fault.

As for his skating -- don't take my word (or the word of 90% of Sabrespace) for it -- let's see what he and his teammates have to say:  https://theathletic.com/834449/2019/02/23/how-sam-reinhart-has-turned-himself-into-a-steady-points-producer/

Quote

Rodrigues said...

“People look at maybe his speed or skating. To the eye, it may look like he’s not moving out there, but he plays with Jack and he always keeps up with him. He’s never behind the play.”

Though Reinhart takes part in power-skating clinics during the offseason, he knows he’s not the fastest guy on the ice.

“I’ve never been the fastest by any means,” he said. “That’s something I’ve kind of had to work on. I feel comfortable with where I’m at right now. As I keep getting bigger and stronger, I’m only going to get faster. But I think that I’ve always played better with fast players around me, going back to early in junior.”

 

 

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

 

Oh goody.  More temper tantrum gibberish.

Do you understand that "may or may not have been part of the problem", which is what I wrote, is not the same as "wasn't part of the problem?"

Do you understand that people are going to disagree with you from time to time, and when they do so it may be simply because they disagree with you, and not just "fake slander and bad faith arguments?"

I'm not sure how it's "obvious" that I wouldn't want Reino on my team when I say that he's a very good NHL forward who's having a very good season, and that at least 30 NHL GMs would take him over VO.  For the record, I would rather have signed Reino to an extension last summer than traded him.

As for Hammy being "literally" the only person to criticize Reino's character, here's Mike Harrington, another Sabres beat reporter who is around the team much more than we are, on Reino and how his teammates felt about him:  https://auburnpub.com/sports/hockey/mike-harrington-stop-with-sabres-tank-talk-as-team-begins-rebuild/article_fdd83589-9808-545f-bb4f-c721f4011b1e.html

As for his skating -- don't take my word (or the word of 90% of Sabrespace) for it -- let's see what he and his teammates have to say:  https://theathletic.com/834449/2019/02/23/how-sam-reinhart-has-turned-himself-into-a-steady-points-producer/

 

This is why I don't engage with you. You accuse me of temper tantrum for your biased posting when I mention I disagree with it and precisely why. 

It's an old tactic but it checks out. 

[JoeSchmoe]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Sponge Robert! Love it!

[Brawndo]

2 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Am I remembering incorrectly, or is it better to be in the red for xGA and CA, and better to be in the blue for GF, xGF and CF?

You want to be above the line for everything, so blue is better 

[LGR4GM]

17 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

 

Oh goody.  More temper tantrum gibberish.

Do you understand that "may or may not have been part of the problem", which is what I wrote, is not the same as "wasn't part of the problem?"

Do you understand that people are going to disagree with you from time to time, and when they do so it may be simply because they disagree with you, and not just "fake slander and bad faith arguments?"

I'm not sure how it's "obvious" that I wouldn't want Reino on my team when I say that he's a very good NHL forward who's having a very good season, and that at least 30 NHL GMs would take him over VO.  For the record, I would rather have signed Reino to an extension last summer than traded him.

As for Hammy being "literally" the only person to criticize Reino's character, here's Mike Harrington, another Sabres beat reporter who is around the team much more than we are, on Reino and how his teammates felt about him:  https://auburnpub.com/sports/hockey/mike-harrington-stop-with-sabres-tank-talk-as-team-begins-rebuild/article_fdd83589-9808-545f-bb4f-c721f4011b1e.html

As for his skating -- don't take my word (or the word of 90% of Sabrespace) for it -- let's see what he and his teammates have to say:  https://theathletic.com/834449/2019/02/23/how-sam-reinhart-has-turned-himself-into-a-steady-points-producer/

 

Lets take a look at your sources. The first one you can't pull a quote from? I can't read it so no idea what it says or even when it is from and maybe it was Harrington and not Hamilton who hated Reinhart. I just remember one beat reporter constantly went after him and yet no other person did. Also a reporter saying it and a teammate doing it isn't the same. Hell the part we can read is so riddled with conjecture it hurts. "We've heard a lot of talk during training camp from players about getting a "better culture" in the dressing room. A lot of it sure comes off as not-so-veiled comments about Reinhart and Eichel and how they operated like things were never their fault." This is a reporter editorializing what they believe to be true without proof. Now because I am actually excellent at reviewing news sources, it strikes me as particularly deceiving in this instance both by Harrington and yourself. It is deceiving because it lumps Eichel and Reinhart together even though we have mounting evidence of Jack's immaturity and issues while Reinhart just keeps quietly going about his business on a cup contender without a peep from anyone. 

Funny how Reinhart is such a bad person that he called and spoke to Adams after the trade in what was clearly a very mature and thankful phonecall but hey, Harrington lumps Eichel and Sam together in a baseless accusation that I have to take at face value because you said so. 

The second source is perfect because it doesn't say what you claim it does. You even quote ERod saying Sam Reinhart can keep up with Eichel. "I am not the fastest" is not the same thing as being slow. That gives us 2 things that you believe that are either directly disproven by your source material or unsupported by your source material. 

I disagree with you because you don't use facts but you use conjecture and semantics along with alternative facts to defend yourself from criticism. At least I will admit when I am wrong. This is why I don't interact with you.

Edited April 20, 2022 by LGR4GM

[Brawndo]

One of these players got an eight year 80 Million Dollar Deal, the other a two year 3.6 Million AAV Deal. 
 

Both should have been signed to max term contracts 

This is data from their first three seasons 

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Question:  Does Thompson break out if Sam isn’t traded?

[Doohickie]

23 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Question:  Does Thompson break out if Sam isn’t traded?

Excellent question.  I think he still would have been moved to center but he might have ended up with Girgs and Okposo for linemates instead of Asplund and Olofsson and eventually Skins and Tuch/Olofsson. 

But even then, there's a chance he breaks out.

[Buffalonill]

Is this a joke ? 

[Buffalonill]

4 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

I think when VO gets in a full season he will have more points than Sam has had in any season. He is such money 

[bob_sauve28]

3 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

Is this a joke ? 

Nope 

 

Just now, Buffalonill said:

Boo!!

[spndnchz]

Reinhart. Just plays.