Is Tage Thompson better than Jack Eichel?

[mjd1001]

50 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That’s not a fair comparison considering the surgery Jack is recovering from.  Assuming both are healthy next season, that will be a more reasonable comparison.

I like the ROR comparison better.  I also would ask knowing what we know now, would we be better off with Thomas, Kyrou or Thompson as the compensation for ROR?

The comparison to ROR is the key with Thompson.  The Sabres may end up with that being a trade that benefits them greatly, even though St. Louis would not take it back.  The Blues got their cup out of it...The Sabres got a guy who may be the 'better player/better fit' but one that took time to get there.  The trade may be good for both teams simply because St. Louis didn't have time to wait if they were in their 'cup window' and the Sabres weren't even making the playoffs with or without any of those players during that time.

 

As far as Tage vs Jack....If you took Eichel off of Vegas for his time this year and you put Thompson on the Knights...would Vegas be any better right now with Thompson on that team?

Edited April 18, 2022 by mjd1001

[Wyldnwoody44]

Yes, because he is a Sabre and Jack is not. I am a Buffalo fan so everything here is better 😜

[Huckleberry]

57 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Too many ppl spent too many years hating on Reinhart to ever equate him to being good enough to help Eichel 

Well not  me, I'm in the camp that thinks Samson elevated Eichels game.   

[Doohickie]

Is Tage Thompson better than Connor McDavid?

[mjd1001]

31 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Well not  me, I'm in the camp that thinks Samson elevated Eichels game.   

If Sam would have elected to stay in Buffalo, he likely would have retained his position as a Center that Granato put him in last year. With Reinhart as a Center, would Thompson ever been given the chance to play center then?  Sam isn't here and he didn't want to be, but IF the Sabres had convinced him to stay with a big enough deal, you may not have the Tage you have now playing center..you may instead have a 15 goal-per-year Tage playing on the wing where he never seemed to excel.

Edited April 18, 2022 by mjd1001

[Flashsabre]

Tage is a better fit here then Jack. 

Buffalo likes the hard working underdog. Tage was written off here, kept grinding and now has blossomed out of nowhere.

Jack has always been the entitled prick that doesn’t fly in Buffalo.

Tage isn’t as talented as Jack but I like what someone else mentioned, he can be just as effective. Tage is developing into a number 1 centre before our eyes.  Man Tage and Tuch will be an absolute load to contain in a playoff series. 

 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Flashsabre

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

 

What does Eichel bring that is dynamic in comparison to Tage

Everything (skating, strength of shot, driving the play, passing etc.) except his shooting accuracy compared to Tage. When healthy Jack is an elite NHL player. At his best Tage is a good NHL player.

[Flashsabre]

Imagine if I told this board 12 months ago that this would be a legitimate thread on this board that wouldn’t be locked immediately.🤣

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Aren't we also showing bias with Eichel? He was declared a "generational talent" at his draft. Has he lived up to that status yet?

I am not being biased. I'm making a cold blooded judgment that should be obvious to most people, except those who have an animus toward the departed player.  Jack was stuck in a dysfunctional organization that was going to start another rebuild. Understandably, he didn't want to be part of another rebuild.  It's obvious to all that Tage is much taller than Jack. When Jack is healthy Tage is a pigmy talent-wise compared to Jack. It's not even a close call. 

[PromoTheRobot]

7 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I am not being biased. I'm making a cold blooded judgment that should be obvious to most people, except those who have an animus toward the departed player.  Jack was stuck in a dysfunctional organization that was going to start another rebuild. Understandably, he didn't want to be part of another rebuild.  It's obvious to all that Tage is much taller than Jack. When Jack is healthy Tage is a pigmy talent-wise compared to Jack. It's not even a close call. 

You aren't really answering my question. Just excusing Eichel's lack of success.

[JohnC]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

You aren't really answering my question. Just excusing Eichel's lack of success.

I did answer your question but you are not receptive to it because you are too invested in your hostility to the  player. Jack's lack of success can be attributed to the gross dysfunction if the organization, team talent and coaching. There was a multiplicity of factors why the team he was on failed to succeed. 

[Norcal]

Thompson has developed into a helluva player

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I did answer your question but you are not receptive to it because you are too invested in your hostility to the  player. Jack's lack of success can be attributed to the gross dysfunction if the organization, team talent and coaching. There was a multiplicity of factors why the team he was on failed to succeed. 

I think you are coddling Eichel a bit. But whatever.

[Norcal]

I don't think any debate about players can be decided unless they are playoff tested. 

Playoff season has a way of revealing the top players in the game, when guys are allowed to lean on you a little more and get away with more physical play.

If a player can fight through that and still maintain his scoring touch then that guy would be considered the better player in my opinion. 

It happens every year. Guys fold in the playoffs. 

[PromoTheRobot]

 

 

Edited April 18, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[Doohickie]

26 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Understandably, he didn't want to be part of another rebuild. 

And this cracks me up.  He was probably two seasons from the rebuild being complete, about half of which was wiped out by Covid and his injury.  Now he's playing for a team in cap hell (in part due to his contract) that's likely in decline, and he could have been at the vanguard of an up-and-coming team.  I hope you never make the playoffs, Jack.

I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the rebuild that made him want out, that it was Adams telling him he wasn't going to be what the team was building around going forward.... that he was just another hockey player.

Edited April 18, 2022 by Doohickie

[dudacek]

28 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I am not being biased. I'm making a cold blooded judgment that should be obvious to most people, except those who have an animus toward the departed player.  Jack was stuck in a dysfunctional organization that was going to start another rebuild. Understandably, he didn't want to be part of another rebuild.  It's obvious to all that Tage is much taller than Jack. When Jack is healthy Tage is a pigmy talent-wise compared to Jack. It's not even a close call. 

I’m not really disagreeing with you - Eichel is more gifted, clearly has a better overall body of work and has hit much higher highs - but I think there’s also some hyperbole there based on the concept of Jack Eichel versus the reality.

Jack Eichel in the 1st Krueger year was a top 10 player in the NHL. And the year previous he was very close.

But what about his 1st 3 seasons, and his most recent 2? I think there is a conversation to be had that what Tage is doing this year is close enough to what Eichel has done in 5 of his 7 seasons that this thread isn’t the laugher you are making it out to be. Your post is based on a certainty that Jack is going to come all the way back from his injury and be a player we haven’t seen in over 2 years.

Is Tage Thompson in the conversation for the top 50 players in the NHL this year? Top 75? Is Jack Eichel?

I think that’s the question this thread is posing. 

And the fact that the answer isn’t immediately obvious makes it an interesting conversation.

(I miss @Thorny)

Edited April 18, 2022 by dudacek

[Curt]

Would you rather have Eichel on his contract or Thommer on his?

[JohnC]

25 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I’m not really disagreeing with you - Eichel is more gifted, clearly has a better overall body of work and has hit much higher highs - but I think there’s also some hyperbole there based on the concept of Jack Eichel versus the reality.

Jack Eichel in the 1st Krueger year was a top 10 player in the NHL. And the year previous he was very close.

But what about his 1st 3 seasons, and his most recent 2? I think there is a conversation to be had that what Tage is doing this year is close enough to what Eichel has done in 5 of his 7 seasons that this thread isn’t the laugher you are making it out to be. Your post is based on a certainty that Jack is going to come all the way back from his injury and be a player we haven’t seen in over 2 years.

Is Tage Thompson in the conversation for the top 50 players in the NHL this year? Top 75? Is Jack Eichel?

I think that’s the question this thread is posing. 

And the fact that the answer isn’t immediately obvious makes it an interesting conversation.

(I miss @Thorny)

I'm not trying to be flippant or dismissive. But the Jack comparison to Tage is an easy call for me. I'm not talking about the current Jack who is not close to being the same player as he previously was due to the surgery. I'm hoping that with an offseason he returns to full health and form. 

The situation that Jack was subjected to here was from an organizational standpoint tumultuous. How many different coaches did he play for? There were too many short-term transactions that were made that ended up setting this franchise back even more. It was a bad situation and he longer wanted to be a part of it. Just like ROR, Reinhart, Risto, McCabe, Montour etc. 

In any rebuild (in any sport) the organization has to determine who wants to be a part of it and who doesn't. He didn't want to undergo it. He felt that his career was being squandered and his mind-set focused on being somewhere else. Many people are upset with him for having that self-preservation/best interest attitude but I'm not one of them. The GM recognized it and made a decision to move on and start afresh. There were reports that he wanted to start the rebuild a year sooner but couldn't convince the owner to go along. In the end both sides on this issue/divide got what they felt was reasonable in the trade. 

I miss @Thorny also. You didn't have to always agree with him to recognize that his points were valid and well reasoned. On the issue of the organization and its commitment to win he had plenty of scathing comments to offer. 

Again, the Jack and Tage comparison is not a difficult issue for me. However, it would have been interesting to see how a healthy Jack would play under Granato. That shipped has long sailed off. 

 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Everything (skating, strength of shot, driving the play, passing etc.) except his shooting accuracy compared to Tage. When healthy Jack is an elite NHL player. At his best Tage is a good NHL player.

I disagree with some of this.  While I do think Jack is better overall because his natural talent.  I am not convinced this will remain true in 10 years.  

Skating - I give this category to Jack, but Tage is a good skater too.  

Driving the play -  even.  Eichel can turn it on when he wants to, but he doesn't always seem to want to.    Tage is a steady eddy and he is still learning to use his size and skills.  Teams are having to account for Tage now.  

Shot - Tage all the way, both strength of shot and accuracy.  Tage is a finisher.  

Playmaking - You did not mention Eichel's clear big advantage.   Eichel can pile up massive assists with his combined skating, stickhandling, puck control, and passing skills.  More so than Tage.  

Toughness - Both are workout warriors and both are physically strong.  Tage has unique size and reach that puts him into a beast category.  There are not many like him.  I think Tage could steadily play at a high level for a long time, we shall see.   Eichel already has had a serious injury that will always be something to watch for him.   Eichel's mental toughness and maturity are still questionable IMO.

Leadership - Tage has no skeletons, no behavior issues, no coach firings, no stories (rumors) of purposely snubbing veterans /4th liner JAGs/ alumni.  Tage is quiet, dedicated, popular with teammates, and leads by example.   Tage has a stable married home life and seems to have his act together.  

So, is Jack "better" today - Yes, probably. 

Would I swap them today?  - No.  

Edited April 18, 2022 by Pimlach

[MBD]

Better natural talent or hockey player, which encompasses more?

[JohnC]

45 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

And this cracks me up.  He was probably two seasons from the rebuild being complete, about half of which was wiped out by Covid and his injury.  Now he's playing for a team in cap hell (in part due to his contract) that's likely in decline, and he could have been at the vanguard of an up-and-coming team.  I hope you never make the playoffs, Jack.

I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the rebuild that made him want out, that it was Adams telling him he wasn't going to be what the team was building around going forward.... that he was just another hockey player.

Jack made it known to Adams that he wanted out. I don't believe that it really distressed Adams that much because he wanted to do a major rebuild as soon as he took over. My understanding is that Terry Pegula was hesitant about a clean-slate type of rebuild. Jack making it clear to Adams  that he didn't want to be here simplified things for him as far as moving on. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

I did answer your question but you are not receptive to it because you are too invested in your hostility to the  player. Jack's lack of success can be attributed to the gross dysfunction if the organization, team talent and coaching. There was a multiplicity of factors why the team he was on failed to succeed. 

Do you think Eichel is generational? Or will become that in his career?

[Indabuff]

Doubtful but I 'member despising whenever Tage stepped on the ice because I thought he was a dumpster fire.

Glad I was wrong.

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I disagree with some of this.  While I do think Jack is better overall because his natural talent.  I ma not convinced this will remain true in 10 years.  

Skating - I give this category to Jack, but Tage is a good skater too.  

Driving the play -  even.  Eichel can turn it on when he wants to, but he doesn't always seem to want to.    Tage is a steady eddy and he is still learning to use his size and skills.  Teams are having to account for Tage now.  

Shot - Tage all the way, both strength of shot and accuracy.  Tage is a finisher.  

Playmaking - You did not mention Eichel's clear big advantage.   Eichel can pile up massive assists with his combined skating, stickhandling, puck control, and passing skills.  More so than Tage.  

Toughness - Both are workout warriors and both are physically strong.  Tage has unique size and reach that puts him into a beast category.  There are not many like him.  I think Tage could steadily play at a high level for a long time, we shall see.   Eichel already has had a serious injury that will always be something to watch for him.   Eichel's mental toughness and maturity are still questionable IMO.

Leadership - Tage has no skeletons, no behavior issues, no coach firings, no stories (rumors) of purposely snubbing veterans /4th liner JAGs/ alumni.  Tage is quiet, dedicated, popular with teammates, and leads by example.   Tage has a stable married home life and seems to have his act together.  

So, is Jack "better" today - Yes, probably. 

Would I swap them today?  - No.  

I have made this comment on numerous postings. Jack being traded was the right thing for him. The organization trading Jack and getting a good return was the right thing to do for the organization. It worked out for each party. As far as Jack's long-term health that has yet to be determined.