GDT: Toronto Maple Leafs vs. Buffalo Sabres, 11/13/21 —7 pm MSG and WGR

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

If you ignore season ticket holders who paid full price, sure.

You barely have that group now but you're going to turn around and sell tickets at 25%? If I saw that as a season ticket holder I'd be beyond pissed. 

When the time comes where there is a demand for tickets then not participating in the secondary market makes sense. When the arena is 2/3 empty for a rivalry game it makes little sense.  

[Doohickie]

15 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Granato has made a number of smart line moves. Putting Tage at center and moving Skinner to his line are two examples of that. 

Also:  How many times have past Sabres coaches and GMs did what should have worked but didn't?  I'm enjoying watching Granato doing things that shouldn't work but do.  😄

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

When the time comes where there is a demand for tickets then not participating in the secondary market makes sense. When the arena is 2/3 empty for a rivalry game it makes little sense.  

You're just ignoring season ticket holders. The 8k ppl who paid full price should just shut up and let Buffalo sell tickets at 25% is what your saying. Not a great way to keep your most loyal supporters. 

[K-9]

55 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

There was a quick mention by Duff that UPL had a bad time late in a very recent game, not sure what he meant. 

He was referring to Friday night’s game against Cleveland where, after a stellar performance the first 56 minutes of the game, UPL couldn’t hold the fort. 

[Doohickie]

11 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Whether at full price or discounted prices the attendance numbers are paltry. The Sabres have to be at the bottom or near bottom for attendance. And it is basic economics and business realism that a $10 ticket sold for a fan who is buying food and drink stuff at the concession stand is better business than having an empty and silent seat. The basic economic rule of supply/demand for ticket pricing is a fact of life. 

FYI, every other team is averaging over 10k per game.  Sabres are below 8k.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

When the time comes where there is a demand for tickets then not participating in the secondary market makes sense. When the arena is 2/3 empty for a rivalry game it makes little sense.  

Also this sentence as constructed is confusing. When there is demand for tickets, who isn't participating in the secondary market? The team or season ticket holders?

Also you're implication that when demand comes the secondary market will go up making it less likely ppl participate there, but we're 11k tickets away from that threshold. 

Edited November 14, 2021 by LGR4GM

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Also:  How many times have past Sabres coaches and GMs did what should have worked but didn't?  I'm enjoying watching Granato doing things that shouldn't work but do.  😄

Juggling is an art that some coaches are better at than others. Some coaches are simply too rigid and aren't flexible enough to experiment with line combos. Krueger was determined to bury Skinner while Granato was determined to try different things to put him in a situation to succeed. 

[Doohickie]

Krueger was such an abominably bad, arrogant, rigid coach.

Edited November 14, 2021 by The Ghost of Yuri

[Dr. Who]

Just now, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Krueger was such an abominably bat, arrogant, rigid coach.

I always suspected he was a vampire.

[Doohickie]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I always suspected he was a vampire.

I don't know if I have a bad keyboard of if my fingers are getting Alzheimer's, but my typing is getting awful.

[SDS]

20 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Whether at full price or discounted prices the attendance numbers are paltry. The Sabres have to be at the bottom or near bottom for attendance. And it is basic economics and business realism that a $10 ticket sold for a fan who is buying food and drink stuff at the concession stand is better business than having an empty and silent seat. The basic economic rule of supply/demand for ticket pricing is a fact of life. 

“Basic economics“. Why don’t you go tell that to every newspaper outlet who thought it was a great idea to give away their product 20 years ago and then walk around and ask customers how many are willing to pay for news now.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Also this sentence as constructed is confusing. When there is demand for tickets, who isn't participating in the secondary market? The team or season ticket holders?

This isn't a difficult concept to grasp. When the fans are enthusiastic with the product they are more likely to buy tickets at the designated price and attend the games. I'm not as concerned with the secondary market as you are. It is about having people actually attending the games. When you have a rivalry game at your arena that is (estimated) with two thirds of the seat vacant that is a disturbing situation. The problem isn't the secondary market and how it relates to fairness to the limited number of season ticket holders. The problem relates to apathy to the product you are offering. As it currently stands I find it very troubling.

[Dr. Who]

Just now, The Ghost of Yuri said:

I don't know if I have a bad keyboard of if my fingers are getting Alzheimer's, but my typing is getting awful.

The occasional manual malaprop is human, all too human. I blame fat fingers . . . though finger Alzheimer's is a good one, too.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, SDS said:

“Basic economics“. Why don’t you go tell that to every newspaper outlet who thought it was a great idea to give away their product 20 years ago and then walk around and ask customers how many are willing to pay for news now.

The media market is different. Technology and the increase in news sources have changed the economics and business model of the media business. What I was referring to in my comments had to do with the level of apathy for the product. In the media business there is more interest in the product but it is much more fragmented now because there are so many different options. That dynamic doesn't apply to what I was commenting on. 

[klos1963]

12 hours ago, kas23 said:

Of course. Should’ve been more clear for the concrete thinkers. They are playing a game that is sold to spectators to watch. These injuries are a direct result of said game. Spectators should have an idea of their work-related injuries. 

You do have an idea - a lower body injury usually involves a leg or foot injury. , Upper body, shoulder, neck, head...., yes, it's frustrating because we used to get more info, but does it really matter to fans why a player is out? If he's out for 2 weeks with a foot or neck, what difference is it to the fans?

[klos1963]

5 hours ago, nucci said:

You should never be ok with a loss

Don't we get 1 point for moral victories?

[woods-racer]

29 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

The occasional manual malaprop is human, all too human. I blame fat fingers . . . though finger Alzheimer's is a good one, too.

I prefer to call my mistakes Dogberryism.  It's better than saying that I can't type, my spelling is limited and my grammar is suspect.

[woods-racer]

11 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

Don't we get 1 point for moral victories?

At this stage in their young careers I would have to say yes. They know they could have won, which is a far cry from last season.

[klos1963]

9 minutes ago, woods-racer said:

At this stage in their young careers I would have to say yes. They know they could have won, which is a far cry from last season.

Narrator : No, they don't get 1 point for a moral victory.

[Doohickie]

49 minutes ago, woods-racer said:

I prefer to call my mistakes Dogberryism.  It's better than saying that I can't type, my spelling is limited and my grammar is suspect.

I also have a new kitten.  Iggy contributes to my typing challenges when he's all up in my keyboard.

Edited November 14, 2021 by The Ghost of Yuri

[jsb]

My observations and takes after the game:

1. Is Granato not only the young guy whisperer but also the old guy one to, Okposo-Zemgus and Skinner haven't played this well in a Sabres uni for quite awhile, if ever and giving the "A" to Z and Kyle was a stroke of genius
2. If Ryan Johnson works out are we looking at that ROR trade in a totally different light than a year ago?? Lose the short term win the long one
3. Has the light bulb turned on for Cozens in the past 2 games, if so the rebuild is well on it's way
4. The Sabres undoubtedly play with more fire and energy at home than away, they have to find a way to turn it on when on the road
5. Asplund and Bryson are turning into NHL players before our eyes
6. Has the AHL-NCAA cupboard been better stocked since the early 2000's??
7. Has UPL turned it around or is it another short term mirage?? 
8. Who would have ever thought it possible that Thompson at C would revitalize Skinner before the season started
9. Is our future C spine not quite as skeletal as first thought??

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Someone in another thread said that the Tage line's productivity was hurt by having Skinner.  I said that if Tage can unlock Skinner it will be worth it.  Skinner marches to his own drummer, but Tage has been able to mesh with him better than any other center currently playing on the team.

Skinner IS playing better, but he's still Skinner.  For all the criticism Miller & the other D took for the late turnover, that puck was right on Skinner's stick.  Any other winger would've won that board battle & gotten the puck out of the zone.

It'll be interesting to see where Skinner ends up when Olofsson comes back.  People seem to be forgetting that Olofsson was the team's leading scorer when "that 70's line" was intact.  Expecting that Olofsson will go back there & if Mittelstadt's wrist ever heals that Skinner will be back w/ him.

[LabattBlue]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

The problem that is worrisome isn't having Leaf fans in the building as it is having an embarrassing low number of fans in the building for a rivalry game. The announced attendance was 7942. Just estimating but it is not unfair to deduct between 1000-2000 people who actually attended the game. And if you deduct maybe another 1000 of Toronto fans who crossed the border you are looking at a disturbing low number of Sabre fans who attended the game.

It's acknowledged that the Sabres are in the midst of a rebuild and realistically are not a playoff team. But this is a team that consistently plays hard and is entertaining. This is a team that the fans should have no trouble getting behind. Considering how this franchise has functioned over this past Pegula decade I don't expect capacity crowds. No question the fan base has been demoralized and reduced .However, when you repeatedly witness games when close to 2/3 of the seats are empty then that is disturbing. 

I wrongly thought this was a game in which there would have been a bump up in attendance. I was wrong. 

Have you looked at box office ticket prices?  There is your answer. 

[K-9]

22 minutes ago, jsb said:

My observations and takes after the game:

1. Is Granato not only the young guy whisperer but also the old guy one to, Okposo-Zemgus and Skinner haven't played this well in a Sabres uni for quite awhile, if ever and giving the "A" to Z and Kyle was a stroke of genius
2. If Ryan Johnson works out are we looking at that ROR trade in a totally different light than a year ago?? Lose the short term win the long one
3. Has the light bulb turned on for Cozens in the past 2 games, if so the rebuild is well on it's way
4. The Sabres undoubtedly play with more fire and energy at home than away, they have to find a way to turn it on when on the road
5. Asplund and Bryson are turning into NHL players before our eyes
6. Has the AHL-NCAA cupboard been better stocked since the early 2000's??
7. Has UPL turned it around or is it another short term mirage?? 
8. Who would have ever thought it possible that Thompson at C would revitalize Skinner before the season started
9. Is our future C spine not quite as skeletal as first thought??

Good stuff here. I’ve said Granato is a virtuoso when it comes to pulling the strings of players and when to pull them. Take Skinner for example. Every time he’s asked about Skinner, Granato immediately praises his work habits in practice and Skinner’s dedication to working on the things he needs to be a better player. How long has Skinner been in the league? How much is he paid? Heck, Granato even mentioned Skinner’s improved “hockey sense” last night; something I’ve always accused Skinner of not having at all. 

[Doohickie]

6 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Granato even mentioned Skinner’s improved “hockey sense” last night; something I’ve always accused Skinner of not having at all. 

I think that's more chemistry between Tage and Jeff.