Jack Eichel and 2023 3rd Traded to Vegas for F Alex Tuch, C Peyton Krebs, 2022 1st Top Ten Protected and 2023 2nd

[Thorny]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Sorry if that comes off as flippant but players not wanting to come to Buffalo is way down our list of problems right now. 

It’s less concerning re: players deciding to come here, in UFA, to your point, but more concerning in terms of players we do get wanting OUT. 

To your other point, winning probably fixes most. But it’s still a potentially added degree of difficulty, to Hoss’s point

[Thorny]

And actually now that I think about it, with our current GM it’s not exactly the usual cut-and-dry “just draft the guys you want then and force them to come” scenario. Not when that GM has made it clear, upping his lingo most recently, that he only wants players who are “dying” to be Buffalo Sabres. 

[Dr. Who]

7 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I think it's a notable piece of news that players have actually said that... But I also agree with you that it's not an issue right now.

By the time the sabres are looking for free agents, it should be a few years down the road.

The fact that the Sabres had reservations about a surgery that has never been performed on an NHL player would seem to make it an outlier from a rational perspective. I doubt it is really an issue for players unless they are meatheads.

[bob_sauve28]

43 minutes ago, Hoss said:

No, not really. As far as point production goes: Samson has five seasons of more than 20 goals, Tuch has zero. Samson has six seasons of 40 or more points. Tuch has one. Six seasons over .5 PPG. Tuch has two.

They’re not close. Tuch is a 30-50 point player. Samson is a 50-70 point player.

Lol, ya sure, but he’s also played a lot more games. 

 

I made a good comparison! 

[Hoss]

40 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Why should I care? Honestly why should I give a ***** what Jack's mouthpiece has to say and oh no we won't be able to sign overpriced ufas, the horror. 

When it becomes a problem, I'll worry. You don't build teams through ufa.

You know why ufas aren't gonna sign? Because we're bad, if we're ever good again, Jack's issues will have been forgotten. Winning fixes a lot... so does money

Winning fixes a lot, sure. As does money. But not having things to fix is even better. This will impact decisions in the future. Convincing good players to come here is already hard enough.

[mjd1001]

6 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Lol, ya sure, but he’s also played a lot more games. 

 

I made a good comparison! 

I think I fall someplace in the middle of both of your arguments. Sam has a better pedigree from his draft status, he's probably slightly more talented, and his production has been better.

On the other hand, going forward Tuch has a chance to be almost as productive on the score sheet as Sam, and he actually might be a slightly better fit for this team.

[Hoss]

38 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Sorry if that comes off as flippant but players not wanting to come to Buffalo is way down our list of problems right now. 

I mean … it definitely isn’t. Convincing players to come here and stay here is near the very top of the list of ways to fix this franchise. It’s a step above concession prices, at least.

[Buffalonill]

Tuch is a more  Polished Marcus Foligno

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, Buffalonill said:

Tuch is a more  Polished Marcus Foligno

You can’t polish a Tuch 

[K-9]

Gotta love Friedman, a master of the pre-manufactured narrative. How convenient for him. 

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

You can’t polish a Tuch 

[pi2000]

1 hour ago, Hoss said:

No, not really. As far as point production goes: Samson has five seasons of more than 20 goals, Tuch has zero. Samson has six seasons of 40 or more points. Tuch has one. Six seasons over .5 PPG. Tuch has two.

They’re not close. Tuch is a 30-50 point player. Samson is a 50-70 point player.

Tuch is a career +19, Reinhart -92.

 

[Hoss]

2 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

Tuch is a career +19, Reinhart -92.

 

See? Not the same player at all!

[SDS]

58 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I think it's a notable piece of news that players have actually said that... But I also agree with you that it's not an issue right now.

By the time the sabres are looking for free agents, it should be a few years down the road.

The answer to that is an easy one. You just tell any other player that Jack has already said multiple times he wanted to leave the organization. At that point, he wanted us to assume all the risk without the benefit of him playing here anymore. We decided to let him go to another organization that would be invested in his future.

[pi2000]

9 minutes ago, Hoss said:

See? Not the same player at all!

My point is there's more to being an effective hockey player than just point production.   Points are nice, but not when you're fishing the puck out of your own net every other shift.

[Hoss]

3 minutes ago, SDS said:

The answer to that is an easy one. You just tell any other player that Jack has already said multiple times he wanted to leave the organization. At that point, he wanted us to assume all the risk without the benefit of him playing here anymore. We decided to let him go to another organization that would be invested in his future.

This fanbase needs to stop playing dumb on this. The way you treat players has a huge impact on the way others view your franchise around the league. The Sabres decided not to go to bat for their best player and decided he was not worth their money. That’s going to have an impact. It might not be the difference for a lot of guys but it’s certainly another obstacle to address.

1 minute ago, pi2000 said:

My point is there's more to being an effective hockey player than just point production.   Points are nice, but not when you're fishing the puck out of your own net every other shift.

+/- is an irrelevant stat and shows absolutely nothing about a player unless it’s an outlier to the rest of the team.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Hoss

[kas23]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

One more thing Friedman just brought up, said Buffalo should be worried about how they handled the injury situation and the fact that they wouldn't let Jack get his surgery of choice.

When the question was asked to press Frieedman on that, he said that a few players have told him they would have second thoughts about playing for Buffalo because of how they treated Jack regarding the injury.

He said behind the scenes the situation between Jack and the sabers was personal and nasty, more than most people know.

Pretty sure this is just Brisson/Jack getting a jab in on the way out the door. We have now seen Friedman was just Brisson’s puppet. Just anecdotes to make a point. I’m sure there were also plenty of players who said the opposite. Plus, those naysayers would undoubtedly change their tune when presented with a multi-million dollar contract to play for a contender. That, and people have short memories.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Hoss said:

This fanbase needs to stop playing dumb on this. The way you treat players has a huge impact on the way others view your franchise around the league. The Sabres decided not to go to bat for their best player and decided he was not worth their money. That’s going to have an impact. It might not be the difference for a lot of guys but it’s certainly another obstacle to address.

Yea... in 2-3 years when I'll worry about it. 

[pi2000]

1 minute ago, Hoss said:

This fanbase needs to stop playing dumb on this. The way you treat players has a huge impact on the way others view your franchise around the league. The Sabres decided not to go to bat for their best player and decided he was not worth their money. That’s going to have an impact. It might not be the difference for a lot of guys but it’s certainly another obstacle to address.

+/- is an irrelevant stat and shows absolutely nothing about a player unless it’s an outlier to the rest of the team.

When you're a career -92 it's relevant.   

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

When you're a career -92 it's relevant.   

Ok, you got me. I even smirked at this

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, Hoss said:

This fanbase needs to stop playing dumb on this. The way you treat players has a huge impact on the way others view your franchise around the league. The Sabres decided not to go to bat for their best player and decided he was not worth their money. That’s going to have an impact. It might not be the difference for a lot of guys but it’s certainly another obstacle to address.

+/- is an irrelevant stat and shows absolutely nothing about a player unless it’s an outlier to the rest of the team.

Ya...it’s just one of those things. It’s a very interesting discussion point. Adams could be so swift a tactician that it has a negligible effect - but we should also acknowledge that often what matters most is perception, and not reality, regardless of what the reality exactly is in this situation. As robopromo has alluded to many times, public perception in some places is quite wildly off the mark. 

Sure, you may be able to visit every GM and explain the truth, but let’s be honest - it’s 2021. The KIDS that they speak to in draft interviews live their existence ONLINE. To think all of this won’t cause some of those kids to, perhaps, back down from from their stance of dying to be Buffalo Sabres, would imo be a pretty big stretch.

If it does become an issue, it’s not a “several years away” timeframe, it’s a “when are the 2022 draft interviews scheduled?” timeframe 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

I think it's a notable piece of news that players have actually said that... But I also agree with you that it's not an issue right now.

By the time the sabres are looking for free agents, it should be a few years down the road.

The only free agents the Sabres will be interested in the next few years or longer are middle and lower tier free agents. It's not a secret how KA is going about rebuilding this limited roster. He has repeatedly stated the strategy he is going to take. As evidenced by the Jack trade and other deals this offseason it will by developing the young players and draft picks accumulated in the purge of players.

The critical issue for the battered fan base is what is the timeframe to become a competitive team? In my opinion it is going to take at least another couple of years. That's where we are at. 

[SDS]

8 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ya...it’s just one of those things. It’s a very interesting discussion point. Adams could be so swift a tactician that it has a negligible effect - but we should also acknowledge that often what matters most is perception, and not reality, regardless of what the reality exactly is in this situation. As robopromo has alluded to many times, public perception in some places is quite wildly off the mark. 

Sure, you may be able to visit every GM and explain the truth, but let’s be honest - it’s 2021. The KIDS that they speak to in draft interviews live their existence ONLINE. To think all of this won’t cause some of those kids to, perhaps, back down from from their stance of dying to be Buffalo Sabres, would imo be a pretty big stretch.

If it does become an issue, it’s not a “several years away” timeframe, it’s a “when are the 2022 draft interviews scheduled?” timeframe 

There is more than one player who can be contacted. Jack does not own the entirety of player opinion for ever more. 

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, SDS said:

There is more than one player who can be contacted. Jack does not own the entirety of player opinion for ever more. 

I don’t really understand this. I wouldn’t claim and never did that Jack will influence everyone, never mind being the key influence on everyone. 

If you check my post, I said it may turn out to have a negligible affect. What I was saying is that it may have some negative affect at some point - in that it could up the degree of difficulty on Adams in certain future situations. 

The point of your post was to remind me that other people can be used as references on the Sabres beyond Jack? I did know that. Ya. 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Thorny

[Sabres Fan in NS]

2 hours ago, FogBat said:

There’s a reason why Mogilny wore 89, just like Jagr wore 68. AFAIAC, 89 is off limits.

We all know why those players wore those numbers, but I don't think that either should be off limits.

2 hours ago, Hoss said:

Tuch is indeed wearing 89.

Good.