Face it, the plan for next year is another tank

[Flashsabre]

5 hours ago, SabresVet said:

I read earlier that Terry is objecting to taking on some cap in the deal with Minnesota.  That supports they're in cost cutting mode this year which dovetails nicely with the strip down Adams is executing.

Basically the rebuild works for Terry because they're in cost reduction mode.  I guess there were no more gas wells to drill.  

Read in an article or just speculation? I mean they do have to get to the floor.  Moving out Jack, Sam and Risto is almost $20 million off the books.

[Gatorman0519]

There are some pieces that make this roster better than 15.  But it is hard to see a scenario where we don't finish last again.  Probably for the next two seasons. We are tanking again, but not deliberately like 15, it is just naturally a result of historical ineptitude.  How else are we not going to be terrible the next year or two?  There is literally no alternative now. What a disaster. Probably the biggest train wreck in modern history and by a mile. But.... like it or not, the next two drafts are loaded....so.... we only need to land one of the top 3 next year to have a new franchise piece going forward. There literally is no alternative this time unless Granato works an absolute miracle.  So .... time to watch prospects all year because it will be much more interesting that what we are about to endure the next two seasons. 

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Gatorman0519

[I-90 W]

It’s not a tank but an old fashioned strip down to the studs and then rebuild. I think KA wants to win as many games as possible for the culture of the room still, but without taking on bad long term contracts. Hopefully we can get some short term (emphasis on short) contracts in FA to get us to the cap floor and help us compete. Also we still don’t know what is coming back in the Jack trade which seems inevitable at this point. 

[FogBat]

On 7/24/2021 at 5:18 PM, PASabreFan said:

I think you've hit on the crux of it. Macro-tanks happen. But you have to manage micro-tanks. I want Granato to put in place his philosophy and system, which, ultimately have to be about winning every single freakin' game starting Game 1. You put that in place and carry it to seasons 2, 3, 4...

If anything, at least Granato knows hockey. It's in his blood, especially with brother Tony and sister Cammi. General Panzer, er, I mean, Ralph Krueger, had a philosophy that just isn't meant for the game.

The long of it and the short of it is that it goes without saying that we all desire to see not just immediate but also long-lasting positive results. The 2018-2019 St Louis Blues are an excellent case in point.

[PASabreFan]

"Tank" without it feeling like a tank, there's the rub.

The players have the power to pull it off. Make us fall in love with them. Balls to the wall hockey — it doesn't take talent. (Of course you really can't do it for 60 minutes, but who's had enough of sleepwalking entire first periods lo these many years?) Cry after a game and make us cry again. MUCA!

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

"Tank" without it feeling like a tank, there's the rub.

The players have the power to pull it off. Make us fall in love with them. Balls to the wall hockey — it doesn't take talent. (Of course you really can't do it for 60 minutes, but who's had enough of sleepwalking entire first periods lo these many years?) Cry after a game and make us cry again. MUCA!

Your vision for what is going on right now is my favourite.

[PASabreFan]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Your vision for what is going on right now is my favourite.

THE SOUL OF THIS FRANCHISE MUST BE RESTORED!

It was somehow lost. This was always the small market team that could. People fell in love with and stayed in love with the Sabres for a reason, and it wasn't winning Cup after Cup.

This is job one.

[Thorny]

Ya I agree, the Girgensons and D'Agostin's and John Scotts and Cory Conachers and the goalies that got traded because they were playing too well really let us down the last time

They just didn't give it their all. If they had, we'd be in a great spot

Edited July 26, 2021 by Thorny

[Thorny]

This crowd is in love!

2014. 

[PASabreFan]

9 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This crowd is in love!

2014. 

That was seven years ago. You've answered your own question.

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

That was seven years ago. You've answered your own question.

Didn't have one. 

We "fell in love" with the hard workers last time, those players never relinquished our soul. 

It's only management that can do that. 

Those players playing hard and the right way didn't mean anything. It doesn't mean anything. 

The exact on ice approach you are touting that is "on the players" already happened during the last tank

Edited July 26, 2021 by Thorny

[SabresVet]

2 hours ago, Crosschecking said:

If anything, at least Granato knows hockey. It's in his blood, especially with brother Tony and sister Cammi. General Panzer, er, I mean, Ralph Krueger, had a philosophy that just isn't meant for the game.

The long of it and the short of it is that it goes without saying that we all desire to see not just immediate but also long-lasting positive results. The 2018-2019 St Louis Blues are an excellent case in point.

People are hyping Granato beyond where he should be at this point.  Seems like a good dude, but 31 other NHL HC's have been in hockey for their lives.  Main exception was DG's predecessor.  

In their last 10 games they were 3-7 and averaged less than 3 goals per.  Expectations just need to be kept in check because it could get ugly next season. 

[sabrefanday1]

Have to agree this is a tank without letting on...you simply do not give away as player as good and as important to your team as Sam was and get nothing in return if you have any thought of winning. Hell they couldn't score enough last year with Sam so clearly they will be lucky to score much at all next year.  DG comes cheaper then those other guys like Boudreau and while he (DG) seemed to re-invigorate the team and help the young guys as stated earlier they went 3-7 at the end and had all kids of problems scoring. Really at this point they might as well tank as clearly they have no interest in paying guys to win now. Sam & Risto were clearly salary dumps and Jack will be next.

[MISabresFan]

Still have KO and JS at 15 mill for the next two years, with Skinner @ 9 mill thru 2027.

[sabrefanday1]

32 minutes ago, MISabresFan said:

Still have KO and JS at 15 mill for the next two years, with Skinner @ 9 mill thru 2027.

Yeah but they are all pretty-much done. The team has to hit the floor cap wise so they have to have some salary and those will ensure they make that threshold (they will also help to lose no doubt). Once Jack is gone for whatever (I do not expect much after the Sam trade) that will lose a pile of cap so they have to have someone making enough to hit the cap floor.   

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, SabresVet said:

People are hyping Granato beyond where he should be at this point.  Seems like a good dude, but 31 other NHL HC's have been in hockey for their lives.  Main exception was DG's predecessor.  

In their last 10 games they were 3-7 and averaged less than 3 goals per.  Expectations just need to be kept in check because it could get ugly next season. 

Curious you singled that out. Why not look at Granato past the 18-game losing streak? And BTW Donny has been coaching his entire life too. He's no less experienced than any first time NHL coach.

[PerreaultForever]

You can't tank when you've already tanked. That's just drowning. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

They aren't tanking but finally rebuilding the right way. Unlike the tank for Sam and Jack, this organization has a solid group of kids in the system to build around.  Now the question is can management execute to fill the holes as they occur without harming the development of the kids.  This time they won't be trading the depth away to bring in "star" players. 

Now lets get 2 good goalies to back stop the kids and hopefully DG can get the kids playing hard every night win or lose. Sadly lose is more likely as the division will be stacked next season, with Cup contenders TB and Mon, playoff regulars like Boston and Toronto and newly competitive Florida.  Ott and Det also look like they'll be better.  The Sabres could still finish last in the division and be significantly better on the ice.   

[Thorny]

9 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

They aren't tanking but finally rebuilding the right way. Unlike the tank for Sam and Jack, this organization has a solid group of kids in the system to build around.  Now the question is can management execute to fill the holes as they occur without harming the development of the kids.  This time they won't be trading the depth away to bring in "star" players. 

Now lets get 2 good goalies to back stop the kids and hopefully DG can get the kids playing hard every night win or lose. Sadly lose is more likely as the division will be stacked next season, with Cup contenders TB and Mon, playoff regulars like Boston and Toronto and newly competitive Florida.  Ott and Det also look like they'll be better.  The Sabres could still finish last in the division and be significantly better on the ice.   

We don’t know if they are rebuilding the “right way” until we see the results. All they’ve done thus far is weaken last year’s roster. 

Also, Montreal is a cup contender the same way Dallas was one coming into this year: they aren’t. 

In fact, Montreal better fits the argument for why you shouldn’t tank (which is what we are doing - it’s semantics. Call it a rebuild, whatever - winning isn’t the goal and to me that’s the rub)

Edited July 26, 2021 by Thorny

[Thorny]

Also, the “THIS time we have a solid group of kids around” is a poor argument: we had the perception of that solid backing last time, too. You don’t get to look at Girgensons and Grigorenko and Ristolainen and Zadorov and, because they didn’t work out for us, say it’s “different” this time purely because you are seeing all our young players in the best light right now. 

At the time of the tank, THOSE guys were promising, too

The revisionist history is staggering. I guess that’s the “doomed to repeat it” thing in action 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Thorny

[SabresVet]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Curious you singled that out. Why not look at Granato past the 18-game losing streak? And BTW Donny has been coaching his entire life too. He's no less experienced than any first time NHL coach.

I picked the final 10 games because DG noted that their practice schedule was severely impacted by the schedule.  By that point, it's reasonable to see that, 18 games in, he had been able to convey what he was looking for in practices.  Besides, their practices under Krueger weren't very organized and that roster needed much more.

[Thorny]

GA, you can go ahead and “haha” my posts all you want. You love the prospects. You always love the prospects. You loved them in 2014. If you can’t admit we weren’t all going gaga over the prospects we had at that time including the FOUR FIRST ROUNDERS I just mentioned, you are willfully ignoring the facts. 

This could be different. It’s not different yet. If you think my plea to wait to see the results before calling what we are doing the “right” thing is ludicrous, don’t really know what to tell you. 

[Weave]

29 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

They aren't tanking but finally rebuilding the right way. Unlike the tank for Sam and Jack, this organization has a solid group of kids in the system to build around.  Now the question is can management execute to fill the holes as they occur without harming the development of the kids.  This time they won't be trading the depth away to bring in "star" players. 

Now lets get 2 good goalies to back stop the kids and hopefully DG can get the kids playing hard every night win or lose. Sadly lose is more likely as the division will be stacked next season, with Cup contenders TB and Mon, playoff regulars like Boston and Toronto and newly competitive Florida.  Ott and Det also look like they'll be better.  The Sabres could still finish last in the division and be significantly better on the ice.   

Lets see what they do about goalies before declaring whether this is or is not a tank.

If we don’t have 2 legit goalies on opening day we can safely say the focus is not on winning.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Who were our best prospects and young players when Jack and Sam were acquired?

Risto, Zadorov, McCabe, McNabb, Girgensons, Grirgoenko, Compher, Pysyk, and Armia.  All but Risto, McCabe and Girgensons were shipped out during TM’s tenure.

Now we have Mitts, Cozens, Quinn, JJP, Rosen, Dahlin, Jokiharju, Power, Samuelsson, Johnson, Asplund, R2, and UPL. None of which are being sent packing.  Instead they are the players we are building around.
 

Edited July 26, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Thorny]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2505679-re-ranking-every-teams-prospect-pool-after-2015-nhl-draft

Just one of a million farm-system rankings you can pull up in and around that time where we rank very highly (2 overall). Of course it mentions the tank fruit. Also, Jake McCabe. Hudson Fasching.

We had Ristolainen. Girgensons, Grigorenko. Zadorov. All first round picks. Picked tons of players under Murray to supplement the high picks, plenty of second rounders just like Adams just did. 

If we are doing it "right" this time, it's because our prospects will turn out better than they did the last time. But we don't know that yet, not close. We aren't built more solidly though when considering the perception of that time, and the perception now

Edited July 26, 2021 by Thorny