Sabres' options: Owen Power

[Buffalonill]

Honest question would anybody be mad if they didn't take either of them? 

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Hoss said:

He also falsely answered it. You said since Worlds. Elite Prospects has not done a ranking since May. McKeen since April. Future Considerations since “Spring.” I don’t know when Scouching did their rankings.

At this point, there’s a disingenuous approach to the conversation and I’m not longer interested.

Scouch did his June 2

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, Buffalonill said:

Honest question would anybody be mad if they didn't take either of them? 

Not really. We’ve said all along it’s wide open. I don’t want a D man but have accepted it’s likely 

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, Hoss said:

 

At this point, there’s a disingenuous approach to the conversation and I’m not longer interested.

Who's being disingenuous?

8 minutes ago, Hoss said:

LOL this is hilarious at this point.

You gonna call me stupid again or can you have an adult conversation?

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Hoss said:

He also falsely answered it. You said since Worlds. Elite Prospects has not done a ranking since May. McKeen since April. Future Considerations since “Spring.” I don’t know when Scouching did their rankings.

At this point, there’s a disingenuous approach to the conversation and I’m not longer interested

I did not falsely answer. He asked about mainstream rankings after saying post world's was to soon. You're a liar. 

[LGR4GM]

Best part is I thought about what Hosssss said about Cirelli being the floor and that's probably right if a smidgen low. 

[Buffalonill]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Not really. We’ve said all along it’s wide open. I don’t want a D man but have accepted it’s likely 

It seems like last year all over again and will All end up disappointed

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, Crusader1969 said:

“Owen Power, a defenseman at the University of Michigan, was the unanimous choice as the No. 1 player in NHL Central Scouting's final ranking of North American skaters for the 2021 NHL Draft.”

thankfully he’s didnt say consensus! 

The same list that has Beniers ranked sixth after Power, McTavish, Kent Johnson, Hughes and Guenther?

[Hoss]

6 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

The same list that has Beniers ranked sixth after Power, McTavish, Kent Johnson, Hughes and Guenther?

We’ve all hashed and rehashed the mess of prospects that are near equal to each other in what is viewed as a weak draft so some rankings being different than others shouldn’t be shocking. That coupled with COVID putting even more of the evacuation process into a blender and voila.

[dudacek]

19 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Okay, I am honestly asking. What is it the Power's has that is elite, will become elite, or is at least on the borderline of elite? 

Can I turn this around?

What does Alex Pietrangelo do that’s elite? Roman Josi?

Isnt there a model of 1st-pair D where the player is elite because he checks off every box, even if he isn’t flat-out elite in any one area? He can defend against the fastest skaters, the trickiest, and the most powerful. He can make plays against the strongest, the smartest and most determined opponents. He can process the game at it’s highest level. He can play all night long.

Can a player be elite at being complete?

Edited June 9, 2021 by dudacek

[WildCard]

There's just no way Beniers floor is above what Cirelli currently is. If it was this wouldn't be a debate 

[Thorny]

25 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Can I turn this around?

What does Alex Pietrangelo do that’s elite? Roman Josi?

Isnt there a model of 1st-pair D where the player is elite because he checks off every box, even if he isn’t flat-out elite in any one area? He can defend against the fastest skaters, the trickiest, and the most powerful. He can make plays against the strongest, the smartest and most determined opponents. He can process the game it’s highest level. He can play all night long.

Can a player be elite at being complete?

Curtis Martin...Bret Hart..

[Hoss]

12 minutes ago, WildCard said:

There's just no way Beniers floor is above what Cirelli currently is. If it was this wouldn't be a debate 

There might be like five prospects in modern history that could claim this.

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, Hoss said:

There might be like five prospects in modern history that could claim this.

Well, I suppose that depends how much “duration” factors into determining floor. Do players, coming out in their rookie year, immediately post draft, who put up a season better than current-Cirelli, fulfill the criteria?

You may argue this isn’t something that can be guaranteed before seeing these guys in the NHL, but if it’s a reasonably common occurrence, it would be odd if the projecting was so bad universally that they couldn’t hit on more than 5 “guarantees” ever. 

[Thorny]

I think the spirit of what you are saying is true - most of these guys are no guarantee to be any kind of impact player, at all. But I think “floor” in this context has become kind of a “draft term” and meant to be a tad less literal nowadays. But that’s just how I interpret it 

- - - 

On a tangent, all the projections are hilarious when you watch on draft day. Every first round pick has an on-screen comparable listed as “Evgeni Malkin” or “”Jonathan Toews” (Brayden Point if they are sub 6 feet) and D-men are Lidstrom or Hedman if big. Lol 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Thorny

[nfreeman]

What do the good prospect sites say about Power’s skating specifically?  I couldn’t find any specifics on Dobber or elite prospects.  

[Hoss]

8 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

What do the good prospect sites say about Power’s skating specifically?  I couldn’t find any specifics on Dobber or elite prospects.  

https://theathletic.com/2616871/2021/06/02/nhl-draft-scouting-report-what-to-expect-from-likely-no-1-pick-owen-power/?redirected=1

Quote

Skating is the foundation of Power’s game.

You don’t see many big men with the kind of speed he has. Look at the way he can hook the net and get up the ice, and you can easily envision him creating a lot of controlled exits and entries.

His edgework is very good, as well. He can evade pressure at a high level, and walk the offensive blue line to make his checks miss and create offense.

One of the most important aspects of defending other than breaking up plays is puck retrievals. In that aspect, Power is excellent due to his mobility. Pucks shot into his zone that for most are a contested battle are an easy zone exit for him.

Defensively, his skating allows him to get away with some mistakes and recover from trying to create in the offensive zone.

https://theprospectnetwork.ca/2020/12/16/what-would-owen-power-have-brought-to-team-canadas-blueline/

Quote

The thing you’re going to hear all year long with Power is how well he skates for his size. And for good reason– Power’s length, strength, and fluidness combine to give him excellent top speed and a level of mobility that we really don’t see too often from a player of his stature. For a player this big to display the comfort level and willingness to take as much space as the defence gives him, plus a little more– it’s not a common trait. 

The focus here is going to be comparing Power’s skating to NHL players of a similar archetype: large defenceman that skate well and don’t shy away from the offensive side of the game. Stanley Cup champion Victor Hedman (6’6”) is one; Dougie Hamilton (6’6”)and the fluidity of a much smaller player that he possesses will make him a very intriguing case study, and Edmonton’s Darnell Nurse (6’6”) will be a good example of a more mid-level projection for Power. All three of those players skate exceptionally well and are players Power should look at as he looks to refine his stride as he moves to higher levels.

https://lastwordonsports.com/hockey/2021/04/05/owen-power-scouting-report/

Quote

Owen Power is already 6’5″. For many tall players, the caveat of skates well “for his size” is used. This is not needed with Power. He is a very good skater and without the size caveat. His stride may not be the prettiest, but it is very effective. He has good speed in both directions. Power is able to reach top speed in just a few strides. His agility and edgework help him to keep the play in front of him. Strong, quick pivots allow Power to transition quickly from offence to defence and vice-versa. Power can add muscle to his frame, especially in his core and lower body. This will improve his balance and strength in board battles. However, he is already very strong in those areas in college. Added strength will only help him to transition to the pro game.

 

[pi2000]

I think Beniers and Power are both excellent prospects.

That said, I think it's more difficult to find a defenseman with Power's abilities and hockey sense at his age, than it is a forward.   

And for that reason, all things being equal, I would take Power over Beniers but I won't be upset if Beniers is the pick.

What concerns me is Adam's statement about taking the the guy who will blossom in 3, 4, 5 years from now... and if that's the case somebody like Edvinsson might be in play.    

[Hoss]

4 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

I think Beniers and Power are both excellent prospects.

That said, I think it's more difficult to find a defenseman with Power's abilities and hockey sense at his age, than it is a forward.   

And for that reason, all things being equal, I would take Power over Beniers but I won't be upset if Beniers is the pick.

What concerns me is Adam's statement about taking the the guy who will blossom in 3, 4, 5 years from now... and if that's the case somebody like Edvinsson might be in play.    

I'm very confident the Sabres will take Power if they're picking at one but if they don't I think Hughes, Beniers, Guenther and Eklund are the only guys that might be in play. There's not much that should be changing between now and the draft so they probably already have either a final choice or two/three options max.

[Pimlach]

Interesting comments in this thread.  Lots of passion by some.  
 

I think that assigning a floor and ceiling by naming a current player, while helpful to fans, is a bad way to scout.  I expect real scouts would grade their play on the ice, and of course use analytics - then it’s up to the GM to compile the information and decide.   That is when I worry about the Sabres staff and their experience - especially in rounds 2-7.  
 

Seems like the biggest reason to not take Power is that Eichel and Reinhardt could be gone, creating a big talent void at forward. 

[Buffalonill]

I don't think he's the best  Defenseman in this draft( sure  People have him ranked 1st overall )

Doesn't mean much would you call Dahlin the best still ? No

Lots of defenseman taken later on usually end up the best 

[LGR4GM]

12 hours ago, dudacek said:

Can I turn this around?

What does Alex Pietrangelo do that’s elite? Roman Josi?

Isnt there a model of 1st-pair D where the player is elite because he checks off every box, even if he isn’t flat-out elite in any one area? He can defend against the fastest skaters, the trickiest, and the most powerful. He can make plays against the strongest, the smartest and most determined opponents. He can process the game it’s highest level. He can play all night long.

Can a player be elite at being complete?

Then you want Matt Beniers. There's no hole in his game.

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Then you want Matt Beniers. There's no hole in his game.

So he is a Bergeron in the making, and a reasonable option at #1 many years, not just this year?

[JohnC]

13 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

Honest question would anybody be mad if they didn't take either of them? 

The evaluation process is still ongoing. If the scouting department ends up ranking other players higher then you adjust accordingly. If another team offers a tantalizing deal for a player/s with a trade down then you have to consider it. This is not the time to stop evaluating prospects or stop listening to offers. If the draft was today I would select Power. But that is not the case. It would be foolish to not consider options that could in the long run improve your roster.

As of right now I am a Power-stan. 

[LGR4GM]

34 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So he is a Bergeron in the making, and a reasonable option at #1 many years, not just this year?

More so than Power but this is a flawed argument. We aren't drafting over multiple years. 

This idea that we must compare Power or Beniers to the other drafts because first overall is awful. You can't draft the players from previous drafts so it is irrelevant. Further more we know more about the players from every other draft because they have played more, some in the NHL. "Oh hey! Would you take Beniers or Lafrienere? You said they are both first overall... ummm Lafrienere because I know what he is more... WHAT about Jack Hughes or Rasmus Dahlin compared to 2021!?!?! ... Well I would take both because again, I know what they are." Someone from this draft will be as good as most of the players from better (deeper) drafts. The key is making sure you get that player. 

Since you asked about being elite by being a complete player, Matt Beniers is a far more complete player than Owen Power. Could that change in 3 years, sure but with Beniers work ethic, I will take my chances.