Eleven Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 14 hours ago, Brawndo said: From Mike Russo of The Athletic. That’s why nothing’s transpired, at least yet, between the Wild and Sabres regarding Jack Eichel, Buffalo’s disgruntled No. 1 center. The Sabres have not come off their ask of at least four future assets the equivalent of first-round picks for the $10 million-a-year star. So the Wild and Sabres find themselves in a game of chicken. Guerin doesn’t want to decimate his franchise by selling the farm, but he also can’t find a way to satisfy the Sabres’ request unless they are willing — or another team is willing — to essentially take $10 million worth of players from Minnesota. Guerin’s either going to have to be patient and wait out the Sabres until their asking price significantly drops or simply find other ways to fill out his roster. As of now, Sabres GM Kevyn Adams doesn’t sound like he’s going to drop the price for Eichel, take on lucrative salaried players in the midst of an obvious rebuild, or retain any of Eichel’s salary. One year of Victor Rask at 4 Million and two years of Matt Dumba at six million gets them there. That is if Minnesota wants to move Him The Sabres could retain salary and flip Dumba if he doesn’t want to waive His M NTC for Buffalo I know who's going to fold, and I don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 11 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said: how are you going to have a healthy locker room for these young kids to grow in and develop the right attitude if Captain boy just wants out and sulks and mopes and gives half assed efforts wanting out? You're assuming that's what will happen. If KA tells him, hey, I tried to trade you but you made too much of a big deal about your injury and the whole surgery thing and sabotaged your value, so you're stuck here, perhaps for the rest of your contract, do you think he's going to sulk through 5 years of his career? Who would possibly want him after that? 6 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said: Well not everything, some can't build competitive hockey teams...... Fair point. Unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, Eleven said: I know who's going to fold, and I don't like it. He hasn't folded yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 Just now, Buffalonill said: He hasn't folded yet Thus the use of future tense in my post. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 28 minutes ago, Doohickie said: Why would he do a favor to other GMs in a cut throat game? That makes no sense. Pure speculation and not the type of 3rd level thinking Drury is probably capable of, but if I were him, I would rather keep Eichel on the Sabres instead of joining a competitor in the East. The Sabres have already proven they can neuter Jack’s skill. He could be encouraging other GMs to low-ball us to ensure this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Eleven said: Thus the use of future tense in my post. I don't see it the draft was the biggest chip and he said no I see him sticking to his guns Edited July 25, 2021 by Buffalonill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 7 minutes ago, Eleven said: I know who's going to fold, and I don't like it. Unless the other pieces are no bueno I think this is a spot where Adams folding should benefit us though he shouldn’t have put himself in a position to demand all the pieces he wants PLUS no salary coming back because very few teams can achieve that (thus lowering the price). 3 minutes ago, Buffalonill said: I don't see it the draft was the biggest chip and he said no I see him sticking to his guns The draft was only a big chip for Anaheim, Columbus and LA (the latter two have not been connected to Eichel for weeks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, Doohickie said: You're assuming that's what will happen. If KA tells him, hey, I tried to trade you but you made too much of a big deal about your injury and the whole surgery thing and sabotaged your value, so you're stuck here, perhaps for the rest of your contract, do you think he's going to sulk through 5 years of his career? Who would possibly want him after that? When has this ever happened before? When was the last time a player has wanted out of a team and the team just said "too bad, we don't like the returns we are being offered and your going to have to play out the remaining years of your long term deal"? At some point, they will need to move him unless he suddenly becomes happy and satisfied here or it will be a problem for the locker room. Teams will still want him because they will believe he will be different on their team if their team is where he wants to be. Do you think the Bruins won't want him because he was unhappy and sulked in Buffalo, knowing he is a local kid who would like to play there? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 9 minutes ago, Doohickie said: You're assuming that's what will happen. If KA tells him, hey, I tried to trade you but you made too much of a big deal about your injury and the whole surgery thing and sabotaged your value, so you're stuck here, perhaps for the rest of your contract, do you think he's going to sulk through 5 years of his career? Who would possibly want him after that? I get this, I really do. And if I'm in a hard nosed negotiation I'd take this view too, but I wouldn't be willing to risk it as a fan who wants this to end and get on with a new beginning. The chance of it derailing a rebuild is too huge. It's not like he'd do nothing, he'd still show his stuff here and there when he wanted to but look at what DuBois did in Columbus as an example. Just quit on a play here or there. Costs a game, irritate the coach. It's toxic and it spreads. As to who would sign him after, well he'd take a pay cut, but it didn't take much of an audition for Taylor Hall to get 6 million did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 7 minutes ago, kas23 said: Pure speculation and not the type of 3rd level thinking Drury is probably capable of, but if I were him, I would rather keep Eichel on the Sabres instead of joining a competitor in the East. The Sabres have already proven they can neuter Jack’s skill. He could be encouraging other GMs to low-ball us to ensure this. I can't see a GM in the league doing this, and I don't see other veteran GMs doing this because a first time GM says so. He is low balling because he is hoping that KA is bluffing and he can get a steal, or because he is playing hardball and isn't going to put all his cards on the table right from the start. I bet the other GMs in the league, knowing that Eichel wants out and the Sabres are going to be rebuilding again, are thinking he is delusional in getting what he is asking for considering Jack also had a serious injury too and are waiting to call his bluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 5 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said: When has this ever happened before? When was the last time a player has wanted out of a team and the team just said "too bad, we don't like the returns we are being offered and your going to have to play out the remaining years of your long term deal"? At some point, they will need to move him unless he suddenly becomes happy and satisfied here or it will be a problem for the locker room. Teams will still want him because they will believe he will be different on their team if their team is where he wants to be. Do you think the Bruins won't want him because he was unhappy and sulked in Buffalo, knowing he is a local kid who would like to play there? I think the likelihood of a reconciliation is not as low as some think. The guy is 24 and wants everything his way. Then he meets the real world where adults have rules. Of course he is going to start crying. Many of us at the age of 24 would’ve acted the same way. If he decided to sit, which many of us think he won’t, and we begin to have some semblance of success or positivity, I think he’ll suit up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said: I get this, I really do. And if I'm in a hard nosed negotiation I'd take this view too, but I wouldn't be willing to risk it as a fan who wants this to end and get on with a new beginning. The chance of it derailing a rebuild is too huge. It's not like he'd do nothing, he'd still show his stuff here and there when he wanted to but look at what DuBois did in Columbus as an example. Just quit on a play here or there. Costs a game, irritate the coach. It's toxic and it spreads. As to who would sign him after, well he'd take a pay cut, but it didn't take much of an audition for Taylor Hall to get 6 million did it? You are also assuming the team would put up with that kind of play or attitude for 5 more years so he wouldn't have to take a pay cut. And after this season, when his NTC kicks in, he can also then pick an chose where he ends up by saying he will now only waive it for certain teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said: I can't see a GM in the league doing this, and I don't see other veteran GMs doing this because a first time GM says so. He is low balling because he is hoping that KA is bluffing and he can get a steal, or because he is playing hardball and isn't going to put all his cards on the table right from the start. I bet the other GMs in the league, knowing that Eichel wants out and the Sabres are going to be rebuilding again, are thinking he is delusional in getting what he is asking for considering Jack also had a serious injury too and are waiting to call his bluff. It’s just that Drury’s offers have been so ridiculously low. They can’t possibly be serious. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 Just now, kas23 said: I think the likelihood of a reconciliation is not as low as some think. The guy is 24 and wants everything his way. Then he meets the real world where adults have rules. Of course he is going to start crying. Many of us at the age of 24 would’ve acted the same way. If he decided to sit, which many of us think he won’t, and we begin to have some semblance of success or positivity, I think he’ll suit up. And what are teh chances that this team shows some semblance of being a successful team anytime soon? They just dealt his friend Sam away who was one of their best players last year, and one of their top defencemen for nothing that is going to help them any time soon. The GM has already gone public saying they want to rebuild with players who 'Want to be here' (after its come out that you want out) and when the GM named his core moving forward, it didn't include you (or the other 2 that were just dealt). I think the likelihood of a reconciliation is in the single digit percent right now.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said: And what are teh chances that this team shows some semblance of being a successful team anytime soon? They just dealt his friend Sam away who was one of their best players last year, and one of their top defencemen for nothing that is going to help them any time soon. The GM has already gone public saying they want to rebuild with players who 'Want to be here' (after its come out that you want out) and when the GM named his core moving forward, it didn't include you (or the other 2 that were just dealt). I think the likelihood of a reconciliation is in the single digit percent right now.... I don’t think the Sabres have to “win” out of the gate to be successful this coming year. I do think they need to play their ***** off every night and be entertaining. They can’t continue to be a laughingstock. I think if Jack sees this happening, he may want to contribute. Edit: maybe a bad analogy, but I remember the Bills when McBeane came on. He started jettisoning all the bad habits. Watkins and Dareus were booted. Could be some more. Everyone in the league, including many fans, were convinced they were purposely tanking. Didn’t turn out that way. Edited July 25, 2021 by kas23 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 10 minutes ago, kas23 said: I think the likelihood of a reconciliation is not as low as some think. The guy is 24 and wants everything his way. Then he meets the real world where adults have rules. Of course he is going to start crying. Many of us at the age of 24 would’ve acted the same way. If he decided to sit, which many of us think he won’t, and we begin to have some semblance of success or positivity, I think he’ll suit up. I think the likelihood of reconciliation is about as close to zero as it can be. He might be 24 but he has already spent five years of his NHL career without competing a single time and this team’s moves this offseason have made it clear they don’t plan to go through a fast rebuild. Unless a couple of the young guys suddenly become stars this team is an unpredictable amount of time away from even entering the playoff race. He’ll suit up but that’s not reconciliation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, kas23 said: It’s just that Drury’s offers have been so ridiculously low. They can’t possibly be serious. I don't know, Drury is a new GM in one of the top markets in sports. He knows he doesn't have to do much to try and lure players to NY to play and he's probably trying to show that he is the right guy for the GM job by getting such a player for nothing. I do agree that its possible Drury and the Rangers aren't 100% in on him but are going to try and get him anyways because what team wouldn't love to get a player like this (they don't come available that often). But like the rest of the GMs in the league, they also know that unless Buffalo wants to deal with a disgruntled and disappointed player in their lockerroom (who happens to be the Captain), they will have to move him so they aren't going to give up their prized assets and are going to be looking for the Sabres to help out by taking some salary back if they want something better in return Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 53 minutes ago, triumph_communes said: That’s what politicians/business leaders do. They build personal capital in addition to tangible capital to use it when they can. And it’s cut throat and only goes so far, true. But you can only burn someone once and they better be out of position of any power in the league when you do so. i don’t expect message board junkies to understand these concepts though/ who championed Murray who couldn’t have been a worse GM that ruined all political capital the Sabres ever had in the league. My point was that the post I responded to said he was doing it as a favor to other GMs AND it's a cut throat business. Those two assertions are at odds with one another. If it's a cut throat game you don't cooperate with the other GMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 One part of the Friedman stuff that I forgot to mention is that free agency is likely a deadline for some teams. Those teams will want a resolution on Eichel because they will pursue free agents and spend money elsewhere. That’s another point where Eichel’s value will be impacted (though it will go down for some and up for others who strike out). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Hoss said: I think the likelihood of reconciliation is about as close to zero as it can be. He might be 24 but he has already spent five years of his NHL career without competing a single time and this team’s moves this offseason have made it clear they don’t plan to go through a fast rebuild. Unless a couple of the young guys suddenly become stars this team is an unpredictable amount of time away from even entering the playoff race. He’ll suit up but that’s not reconciliation. Suiting up is all we can ask of him at this point. He does have some legitimate concerns. But if my young team is clicking, I’d rather a semi-disgruntled Jack on my team than accept a dumb trade offer. With Jack, I’m sure winning will solve everything. But, he certainly doesn’t need to buy in until we do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triumph_communes Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, Doohickie said: My point was that the post I responded to said he was doing it as a favor to other GMs AND it's a cut throat business. Those two assertions are at odds with one another. If it's a cut throat game you don't cooperate with the other GMs. Politicians do all the time. Those who refuse to play just lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 26 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said: When has this ever happened before? When was the last time a player has wanted out of a team and the team just said "too bad, we don't like the returns we are being offered and your going to have to play out the remaining years of your long term deal"? At some point, they will need to move him unless he suddenly becomes happy and satisfied here or it will be a problem for the locker room. Teams will still want him because they will believe he will be different on their team if their team is where he wants to be. Do you think the Bruins won't want him because he was unhappy and sulked in Buffalo, knowing he is a local kid who would like to play there? Then let those teams pony up and pay. The other factor, of course, is the injury itself. If the reason KA is not getting adequate offers is uncertainty over Jack's health, holding off until mid-season may draw more suitors in, assuming that Jack is healthy and playing well. The return is likely to be better in terms of active, high quality players because the other team will have to trade salary back to us to make their caps work. Right now teams can be over the cap and will need to be under prior to start of season, so their cap adjustments won't necessarily come back to us. If KA trades Jack during the season, it will include a return of real NHLers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 8 minutes ago, Hoss said: One part of the Friedman stuff that I forgot to mention is that free agency is likely a deadline for some teams. Those teams will want a resolution on Eichel because they will pursue free agents and spend money elsewhere. That’s another point where Eichel’s value will be impacted (though it will go down for some and up for others who strike out). I agree that's the next expected trade time frame. Let's see. The good thing is that there are not any great 1st line centers on the FA market but there is players to spend money on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 26 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said: The chance of it derailing a rebuild is too huge. You say this because you don't know Jack (see what I did there?) Seriously, we don't know the relationships between Jack and the Sabres right now. Everyone assumes it's toxic. Even if he wants a trade, he might be able to see the value in being a good citizen (a la Reinhart) and give his best to the team in an effort to maximize his return and actually enable a trade. KA has his finger on that pulse no doubt. We all want this to be over and to move on, but really unless KA can't get back an equitable return it makes sense to hang onto the asset. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 5 minutes ago, kas23 said: Suiting up is all we can ask of him at this point. He does have some legitimate concerns. But if my young team is clicking, I’d rather a semi-disgruntled Jack on my team than accept a dumb trade offer. With Jack, I’m sure winning will solve everything. But, he certainly doesn’t need to buy in until we do. This seems to be looking at the situation through some team filtered glasses, and that Jack just needs to see some glimmer of potential that the team might be kind of improving and he will be back to being in love and wanting to stay to be a part of it. When has that ever happened? He has been here 5 years on the NHL roster, how many times has he seen 'Hope' or potential? He is also in a situation where being at the level he is at as a player, Good/Better teams are going to be willing to bring him in and he will be part of a playoff caliber team right away rather then maybe a few more years down the line if things get better and all goes well. Its not like only the other bottom feeders are looking to bring him in and his options are staying in Buffalo to rebuild or go to another rebuilding team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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