Sabres Trade Taylor Hall (50% of His Salary Retained)and Curtis Lazar to Boston for a 2021 2nd and Anders Bjork

[PotentPowerPlay21]

51 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Adams and the team come out like crap regardless of which ever course they took.  I was just pointing out that they had some leverage on Hall. Not alot mind you, but some.  

I pretty much have lost interest in the Sabres for the last few years. I was reminded of all the posts that mercilessly ripped Darcy Regier even though he actually won the majority of his trades. I am reminded of all the "I trust GM Tim Murray" posts as he devastated the team with horrible trades and squandered all the assets at his disposal. In addition, the "I trust Botterill" posts still sting my eyes. The bottom line is the Pegulas have made some really poor personnel decisions regarding the Sabres. The hiring of Kevyn Adams looks very uninspiring and unpromising based on recent events. I hope some day the Sabres will become relevant again. A quick review of the posts here during the last 24 hours suggest that most are willing to accept bad decisions as inevitable. Excuses like KA did the best he could given the circumstances. It reminds me of the apocryphal story of the child who killed his parents asking the judge to show mercy on him because he is an orphan. The Sabres management is the cause of the horrible situation they are in. The situation you caused yourself cannot be used as an excuse to keep making more bad decisions.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

Do you believe that KA could have gotten more than a second round pick from any other team? I don't. I said it in a prior post that any GM who would have offered a first round pick for him should be fired for gross incompetence. There are plenty of things to criticize this GM for. This deal isn't one of them. At least for me. 

You maybe right, but we'll never know because KA puts us in a no win situation.  That said, an older and inferior player in Foligno went for a 1st and 4th.

[LabattBlue]

Just now, PotentPowerPlay21 said:

The Sabres  management  ownership is the cause of the horrible situation they are in. 

FTFY

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You maybe right, but we'll never know because KA puts us in a no win situation.  That said, an older and inferior player in Foligno went for a 1st and 4th.

Toronto certainly did not think Foligno was an inferior player

[SDS]

54 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

There's a lot of factors - but at the end of the day... his play this season is the reason the return is as low as it was.  

No. His salary and his NMC was in flat cap year. 

[LabattBlue]

Just now, dudacek said:

Toronto certainly did not think Foligno was an inferior player

If I was a GM trying to make a playoff run, I'd take Foligno over Hall every day of the week...even if it cost me more.

[Drag0nDan]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

You maybe right, but we'll never know because KA puts us in a no win situation.  That said, an older and inferior player in Foligno went for a 1st and 4th.

And Toronto overpaid.  But they got what they felt they needed - Gritty forward who can play up in a pinch, hits, kills penalties, and can play on the power play.  They did not want taylor hall - so the first round pick they traded was never in play.  

 

[PromoTheRobot]

9 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

First of all I know exactly how NMCs work and they get waived all of the time to facilitate a trade, especially at the deadline to go to a winning team.  In most situations a GM asks for list of teams the player will accept a deal to in order to create a market for that player.  If the player provides the list, this list constitutes a waiver of the clause to those teams.  What part of this simple procedure do you not understand.  Personally I find it stupid that someone who follows the NHL for years doesn't know that players waive NMCs all the time to get deals done and that most of the time it is done through a list.  Limited or partial NTC or NMC have the advantage of requiring players to make a list. 

 

You are making a lot of assumptions with nothing to back them up.

[LGR4GM]

 

[LGR4GM]

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 minutes ago, PotentPowerPlay21 said:

I pretty much have lost interest in the Sabres for the last few years. I was reminded of all the posts that mercilessly ripped Darcy Regier even though he actually won the majority of his trades. I am reminded of all the "I trust GM Tim Murray" posts as he devastated the team with horrible trades and squandered all the assets at his disposal. In addition, the "I trust Botterill" posts still sting my eyes. The bottom line is the Pegulas have made some really poor personnel decisions regarding the Sabres. The hiring of Kevyn Adams looks very uninspiring and unpromising based on recent events. I hope some day the Sabres will become relevant again. A quick review of the posts here during the last 24 hours suggest that most are willing to accept bad decisions as inevitable. Excuses like KA did the best he could given the circumstances. It reminds me of the apocryphal story of the child who killed his parents asking the judge to show mercy on him because he is an orphan. The Sabres management is the cause of the horrible situation they are in. The situation you caused yourself cannot be used as an excuse to keep making more bad decisions.

I'm with you brother.  I'm done making excuses for bad decisions by our GMs.  This Hall trade is just the latest regarding Hall.  He shouldn't have been acquired.  He shouldn't have been given a full NMC and KA should have received more for him then a late 2nd rd pick and a player we don't need.

[SwampD]

So, we ended up getting a 2nd for a couple million of TPeg's money.

meh

Let's hope we get more out of the pick than we got out of Hall.

Edited April 12, 2021 by SwampD

[Drag0nDan]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

I'm with you brother.  I'm done making excuses for bad decisions by our GMs.  This Hall trade is just the latest regarding Hall.  He shouldn't have been acquired.  He shouldn't have been given a full NMC and KA should have received more for him then a late 2nd rd pick and a player we don't need.

Who's giving more?  Who even has the space to make it happen?

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You maybe right, but we'll never know because KA puts us in a no win situation.  That said, an older and inferior player in Foligno went for a 1st and 4th.

I disagree with your comparison between Foligno and Hall. At this stage in Hall's career Foligno is a better and more well-rounded player. For Toronto the cost for the deal made sense because they believed that he could be an important factor in a cup run. Not only that Toronto has a lot of good young player on their roster and in their system where they can easily absorb the loss of a lower first round pick selection. The Toronto and Buffalo situations are very different. 

[Randall Flagg]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

That seems a lot more Lazar-like lol

[Thorny]

14 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Toronto certainly did not think Foligno was an inferior player

This is the gist of what McKenzie said. He said by all means tar and feather the sabres cause the situation overall is their own but with this specific move "the market is the market" were his words. He specifically said the Leafs though Foligno was the better player

Edited April 12, 2021 by Thorny

[Drag0nDan]

Just now, JohnC said:

I disagree with your comparison between Foligno and Hall. At this stage in Hall's career Foligno is a better and more well-rounded player. For Toronto the cost for the deal made sense because they believed that he could be an important factor in a cup run. Not only that Toronto has a lot of good young player on their roster and in their system where they can easily absorb the loss of a lower first round pick selection. The Toronto and Buffalo situations are very different. 

Yeah - Foligno is more of a complete forward.  He can take draws, hit, play a 200 foot game, kill penalties etc.  He also has more goals than hall this year.

[Doohickie]

14 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Toronto certainly did not think Foligno was an inferior player

I keep coming back to "TO overpaid"

[SDS]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This is the gist of what McKenzie said. He said by all means tar and feather the sabres cause the situation overall is their own but with this specific move "the market is the market" were his words. He specifically said the Leafs though Foligno was the better player

Certainly a better fit for what that team needs. They have all the scoring they need. 

[SDS]

2 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I keep coming back to "TO overpaid"

Cap. The future price may have been high, but the current price is low. That is not unexpected for a team who thinks they have it all this year. 

[DarthEbriate]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

He's the most inconsequential part of the trade. If we're lucky, he's a useful bottom 6 forward and if not, whatever. 

Except his deal is for 2 more years beyond this one, at double Lazar's rate, in a flat cap. Most inconsequential of the deal, yes, but consequential for the future. You can take a flier on a high-end prospect like Thompson (similar contract/duration), but Bjork is a 5th round pick, JAG-talent.

Maybe GM Sheevyn flips him for a pick today. Or maybe we can package a 6th-round pick to get Seattle to take him, but Seattle can find much nicer tidbits on our roster to take (cough, cough Borgen). Worst case: GM Sheevyn acquired Bjork and therefore believes in him and protects him -- leaving an Asplund unprotected.

[Doohickie]

5 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

The Bruins wanted him, what does that tell you?

They're desperate. They just got shellacked by the Caps

[LGR4GM]

Just now, DarthEbriate said:

Except his deal is for 2 more years beyond this one, at double Lazar's rate, in a flat cap. Most inconsequential of the deal, yes, but consequential for the future. You can take a flier on a high-end prospect like Thompson (similar contract/duration), but Bjork is a 5th round pick, JAG-talent.

Maybe GM Sheevyn flips him for a pick today. Or maybe we can package a 6th-round pick to get Seattle to take him, but Seattle can find much nicer tidbits on our roster to take (cough, cough Borgen). Worst case: GM Sheevyn acquired Bjork and therefore believes in him and protects him -- leaving an Asplund unprotected.

The Sabres shouldn't be near the cap next year unless Adams is really really really bad at his job. 

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, DarthEbriate said:

Except his deal is for 2 more years beyond this one, at double Lazar's rate, in a flat cap. Most inconsequential of the deal, yes, but consequential for the future. You can take a flier on a high-end prospect like Thompson (similar contract/duration), but Bjork is a 5th round pick, JAG-talent.

Maybe GM Sheevyn flips him for a pick today. Or maybe we can package a 6th-round pick to get Seattle to take him, but Seattle can find much nicer tidbits on our roster to take (cough, cough Borgen). Worst case: GM Sheevyn acquired Bjork and therefore believes in him and protects him -- leaving an Asplund unprotected.

It's a good point. There's a bit of a KA pattern being established of him being willy nilly with amounts in the 1-2 mil range.

that can add up. we weren't playing ruotsalainen b/c of a trivial amount, right? he scored when he played, right?

you are an NHL GM even small considerations are important considerations because 31 jobs implies best of the best

[dudacek]

8 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This is the gist of what McKenzie said. He said by all means tar and feather the sabres cause the situation overall is their own but with this specific move "the market is the market" were his words. He specifically said the Leafs though Foligno was the better player

 

6 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

Yeah - Foligno is more of a complete forward.  He can take draws, hit, play a 200 foot game, kill penalties etc.  He also has more goals than hall this year.

I still don't see how Sabrespacers could have watched Taylor Hall play this year and say they would have given up a first for him is they were the GM of a contender.

Hall hasn't been MVP Hall since he blew out his knee. I'll repeat, 18 goals in his past 112 games.