Sabres Trade Taylor Hall (50% of His Salary Retained)and Curtis Lazar to Boston for a 2021 2nd and Anders Bjork

[Randall Flagg]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

A twitter report mentioned above basically confirmed what Lawton said.  KA got other offers for Hall, but Hall only would accept going to Boston.  This is where KA failed in this process.  He did it backwards.  He got the offers first and then let Hall pick the destination.  Instead he should have gotten a list of 3-5 places Hall would go and then taken the best offer from those places.   

If I had to guess, Boston 2nd was the minimum KA would accept to even bring an offer to Hall.  

Stating this matter-of-factly is entirely baseless. There is no way any of us have enough information to know that this was a trivial solution 

[SDS]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

A twitter report mentioned above basically confirmed what Lawton said.  KA got other offers for Hall, but Hall only would accept going to Boston.  This is where KA failed in this process.  He did it backwards.  He got the offers first and then let Hall pick the destination.  Instead he should have gotten a list of 3-5 places Hall would go and then taken the best offer from those places.   

If I had to guess, Boston 2nd was the minimum KA would accept to even bring an offer to Hall.  

Should have? What is the decision tree when Taylor Hall decides he doesn’t want to give a list of teams? 

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

A twitter report mentioned above basically confirmed what Lawton said.  KA got other offers for Hall, but Hall only would accept going to Boston.  This is where KA failed in this process.  He did it backwards.  He got the offers first and then let Hall pick the destination.  Instead he should have gotten a list of 3-5 places Hall would go and then taken the best offer from those places.   

If I had to guess, Boston 2nd was the minimum KA would accept to even bring an offer to Hall.  

Except Hall could STILL veto the trade.  Then what?

[Taro T]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

No, I posted up thread that trading Lazar for Bjork straight up would be a bad trade and that the Bjork was more expensive, doesn't player center and isn't as productive for twice as much money.

 

8 hours ago, dudacek said:

The market did not say he was worth more because of the Foligno deal. Your argument only holds up if Foligno and Hall are similar players.

As to the bold, how? I'm always baffled when people say "we should have got more" in these situations. You hold an auction, you take what you perceive to be the highest bid.

Yep.  2 very different style players.  One of whom plays a "playoff style" game & the other who plays a finesse game.

Would rather have Foligno on the roster than Hall for at least the past 2 (last year & this year) seasons.  As such, don't see Nick being worth a 1st +(?) as having much relevance towards Taylor's value.

Prior to the Palmieri & Zajac and the Foligno deals almost nobody expected any more than a 2nd for Hall.  Turns out, that sentiment was correct.  Doesn't make it any less disappointing though. 

Hope this Bjork turns out to be more than just another Kahun.  But the little I've seen/read suggests he may be another: not really built for checking/energy line and not good enough to win a job in the top 6.  Guess it's good that they seem to be trying for 3 actual scoring lines and that may be what they see him as - competition for 1 of those slots or an injury fill-in there.  Something Lazar wasn't going to do.  Especially if they're locked into 1 more year of Girgensons-Eakin-Okposo as the checking line don't see this guy as pencilled in on that 4th line.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Except Hall could STILL veto the trade.  Then what?

Then he sits in the pressbox for the rest of the season while kids who give a crap about playing hard play.  I wonder what the UFA market would be for a diminished sulky player who wasn't even good enough to play for the worst team in the NHL?

Edited April 12, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Then he sits in the pressbox for the rest of the season while kids who give a crap about playing hard play.

Leaving a 2nd-rounder on the table and cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[nfreeman]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Then he sits in the pressbox for the rest of the season while kids who give a crap about playing hard play.

Has this ever happened?  And if KA had taken this rounte, would it not have been a major debacle that would have made the Sabres look even more like a Mickey Mouse franchise?

Bob McKenzie, who is pretty credible, said this morning that no one was giving up a first-rounder for Hall.  Between that, common sense and seeing how awful Hall was this year, I don't see how anyone can think otherwise.

[SDS]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Then he sits in the pressbox for the rest of the season while kids who give a crap about playing hard play.  I wonder what the UFA market would be for a diminished sulky player who wasn't even good enough to play for the worst team in the NHL?

That’ll show him! LOL

[GASabresIUFAN]

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Leaving a 2nd-rounder on the table and cutting off your nose to spite your face.

What is a 2nd?  a 25% chance of getting a player who'll play at least 100 games in his career.  A career this is unlikely to start in the NHL for 2-3 years.  Not exactly huge value.

Sometimes a GM has to show some backbone and show he won't be taken advantage of by a player or another GM.  Would we have crucified him for getting nothing for Hall.  Probably, but he could say that Hall refused to go to anywhere from which I got a reasonable offer for his services.

Y'all are missing the point.  Hall wants to play and play for a winner.  He should have been a partner for KA in this process to help himself and the team.  Idealistic? Maybe, but instead Hall looked out for only himself which was his right.  However, not play him destroys his FA value and that was KA's leverage on Hall.  Work with me to get your best opportunity or don't play and have no FA value.  This is especially true right now as the team is playing good hockey with Hall in pressbox.

Edited April 12, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Thorny]

36 minutes ago, Hoss said:

For the record, I view you as a very smart and good dude. I just think there are ways to learn things and have insightful conversations on hockey Twitter.

I think it's fair to say any human being on earth should be able to use Twitter and find ONE take they find impressive in the history of the platform, come on 

33 minutes ago, dudacek said:

If Hall said "I will only report to Boston" — which was his right — then Adams did a helluva job getting a 2nd out of them.

Are we factoring in the fact he's the one who gave him the clause that allowed Hall to do that?

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What is a 2nd?  a 25% chance of getting a player who'll play at least 100 games in his career.  A career this is unlikely to start in the NHL for 2-3 years.  Not exactly huge value.

Sometimes a GM has to show some backbone and show he won't be taken advantage of by a player or another GM.  Would we have crucified him for getting nothing for Hall.  Probably, but he could say that Hall refused to go to anywhere from which I got a reasonable offer for his services.

Y'all are missing the point.  Hall wants to play and play for a winner.  He should have been a partner for KA in this process to help himself and the team.  Idealistic? Maybe, but instead Hall looked out for only himself which was his right.  However, not play him destroys his FA value and that was KA's leverage on Hall.  Work with me to get your best opportunity or don't play and have no FA value.  This is especially true right now as the team is playing good hockey with Hall in pressbox.

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by LGR4GM

[Thorny]

22 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

Watch the clip Brawndo posted. Taylor Hall drove this trade to where he wanted to go.

Adams gave him the ferrari 

[bob_sauve28]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What is a 2nd?  a 25% chance of getting a player who'll play at least 100 games in his career.  A career this is unlikely to start in the NHL for 2-3 years.  Not exactly huge value.

Sometimes a GM has to show some backbone and show he won't be taken advantage of by a player or another GM.  Would we have crucified him for getting nothing for Hall.  Probably, but he could say that Hall refused to go to anywhere from which I got a reasonable offer for his services.

Y'all are missing the point.  Hall wants to play and play for a winner.  He should have been a partner for KA in this process to help himself and the team.  Idealistic? Maybe, but instead Hall looked out for only himself which was his right.  However, not play him destroys his FA value and that was KA's leverage on Hall.  Work with me to get your best opportunity or don't play and have no FA value.  This is especially true right now as the team is playing good hockey with Hall in pressbox.

You have zero percent chance of drafting a great player if you don't have a draft pick. 

[SDS]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What is a 2nd?  a 25% chance of getting a player who'll play at least 100 games in his career.  A career this is unlikely to start in the NHL for 2-3 years.  Not exactly huge value.

Sometimes a GM has to show some backbone and show he won't be taken advantage of by a player or another GM.  Would we have crucified him for getting nothing for Hall.  Probably, but he could say that Hall refused to go to anywhere from which I got a reasonable offer for his services.

Y'all are missing the point.  Hall wants to play and play for a winner.  He should have been a partner for KA in this process to help himself and the team.  Idealistic? Maybe, but instead Hall looked out for only himself which was his right.  However, not play him destroys his FA value and that was KA's leverage on Hall.  Work with me to get your best opportunity or don't play and have no FA value.  

NMC. The N and the M stand for no movement. In your scenario, Adams and the team come out like ***** ***** in this scenario.

[Randall Flagg]

16 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Then he sits in the pressbox for the rest of the season while kids who give a crap about playing hard play.  I wonder what the UFA market would be for a diminished sulky player who wasn't even good enough to play for the worst team in the NHL?

Bro, given the way you are bouncing around as new information comes out, just to find the safe new square from which you can trash Adams without reservation, if this had happened, you'd just be pissed off and find a way to paint THAT as incompetence 

[Mingler55]

So in summary.......and SO far.......

Our illustrious leader (Kevyn Adams) has traded Eric Staal, Taylor Hall, Curtis Lazar and Brandon Montour for the following.....

Second Round Pick, 2 x Thirds, a Fifth and Anders Bjork.

 

LET THAT SINK IN!!!!

[inkman]

1 minute ago, Mingler55 said:

So in summary.......and SO far.......

Our illustrious leader (Kevyn Adams) has traded Eric Staal, Taylor Hall, Curtis Lazar and Brandon Montour for the following.....

Second Round Pick, 2 x Thirds, a Fifth and Anders Bjork.

 

LET THAT SINK IN!!!!

Curtis Lazar is having the best season of all of them.  Let that sink in. 

[Randall Flagg]

7 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Are we factoring in the fact he's the one who gave him the clause that allowed Hall to do that?

Was wondering when the conversation would veer in this direction. It's an interesting point, but I don't think there's a hockey fan or person in the world that didn't understand us doing this at the time. "Holy crap, we've actually got a shot at Hall? Okay, one year, that's reasonable enough. An NMC? Okay, so if we DID have to move him at the deadline, it might hamper our return, but hey, it was found money anyway, so it's essentially just free assets. Whatever, just get it done and let's try it out"

The big picture sucks because hall sucked way worse than anyone expected, but the logic still applies and using THIS hindsight maneuver is just finding something to be mad about, IMO 

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, WildCard said:

In our case we didn't need a 3rd team to get involved, we retained the 50% salary. So why do the Leafs move more if they need SJ, when Boston had us do all of that anyways?

Pretty sure at the end of the day, the Loafs are only paying 25% of Foligno's salary & not 50% like Bahstan is for Hall.  SJ got a pick for paying that missing 25%.  The BJs were only allowed to retain 50%.

Apologies if that wasn't what you were asking about.

[LGR4GM]

Don't forget that Hall is 4 years younger than Foligno as well. 

[#freejame]

Prediction for our second round pick—multiple posters will get really excited about a “legit” prospect that somehow has fallen all the way to the Bruins pick. The Sabres will pick someone else. Board will erupt about how bad we are at drafting before our 25% chance ever laces up but won’t acknowledge that the second round pick for Hall was worthwhile. 

[nfreeman]

10 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Are we factoring in the fact he's the one who gave him the clause that allowed Hall to do that?

If KA had refused to give Hall the NMC, which had led Hall to sign elsewhere, would you (or anyone else) have called that a good decision by KA at the time?

The question answers itself.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, #freejame said:

Prediction for our second round pick—multiple posters will get really excited about a “legit” prospect that somehow has fallen all the way to the Bruins pick. The Sabres will pick someone else. Board will erupt about how bad we are at drafting before our 25% chance ever laces up but won’t acknowledge that the second round pick for Hall was worthwhile. 

Isn't worthwhile if there's a clear option and we screw it up. Especially if the clear choice succeeds, just more wasted assets. 

[Thorny]

The return for Hall is probably one of the least important and interesting things about the Hall acquisition in general. It reveals so much less about what kind of GM he is than analysis of his talent evaluation, in terms of this move, does. Less too about bringing him in and more so how much KA bet his entire offseason on that add, and how the roster reflected that move. 

[ExWNYer]

Nick Kypreos just said on 'The Instigators' that Chicago is interested in Bjork. Will the Sabres flip him today?