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Sam Reinhart is a center


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16 hours ago, Weave said:

If Cozens takes the next developmental step we all expect and Mitts takes the next step that has been keeping GA up at night it’s all needless anyway because Sam will be back to being more valuable as the obvious best RW on the team.

 

I see it this way, Sam *might* turn into a good 2C on a good team.  But we know he has good 1RW on a good team ability.  We all expect Cozens to become a good 2C, so we’re back to, where is he most valuable?

This sums it up pretty well for me. 

Sam is showing enough at C for me right now that it alleviates a good bit of my worry re: the tendency of our current top 6 Cs to miss hockey games. We still could use more C depth particularly in the bottom 6 but Reinhart represents a solid top 6 C option should Eichel or Cozens go down with an injury. Assuming Cozens is there next season, having 3 top 6 C options is a really good thing. 

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How is everyone feeling about the fact that Reinhart was able to go out and do a pretty good job at C with guys like Olofsson and Okposo against top competition?  How does this impact the thoughts of those who feel he can’t “drive a line”?

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3 hours ago, Curt said:

How is everyone feeling about the fact that Reinhart was able to go out and do a pretty good job at C with guys like Olofsson and Okposo against top competition?  How does this impact the thoughts of those who feel he can’t “drive a line”?

He's not the right kind of player to drive a line; don't make a judgment based on a few games against bad teams. 

He is slow, his defense is pretty bad (always has been), and he is out-physicaled in puck battles CONSTANTLY.

I have said this for years, but if this team could ever actually get into a playoff series, we would all see Reinhart's flaws. He just has no physical game whatsoever and when hockey turns into trench warfare in the playoffs, he's going to be blown off the puck constantly, and his production will plummet.  That's my prediction at least.

He's a finesse guy; needs to be supported by someone like Eichel and be allowed to float around and do his thing.

I like Reinhart!  He has his role and he's the 2nd best player on the team; don't see him as a center though.

I also don't want to see him traded before we get a real HC in here.

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

I guess you’ve never been watched the Islanders play. 

Their players play fast and hard.  They just do so with the goal of destroying offense and joy.

When a coach says they want to play fast, that doesn’t mean wide open offense.

Edited by Curt
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15 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said:

He's not the right kind of player to drive a line; don't make a judgment based on a few games against bad teams. 

He is slow, his defense is pretty bad (always has been), and he is out-physicaled in puck battles CONSTANTLY.

I have said this for years, but if this team could ever actually get into a playoff series, we would all see Reinhart's flaws. He just has no physical game whatsoever and when hockey turns into trench warfare in the playoffs, he's going to be blown off the puck constantly, and his production will plummet.  That's my prediction at least.

He's a finesse guy; needs to be supported by someone like Eichel and be allowed to float around and do his thing.

I like Reinhart!  He has his role and he's the 2nd best player on the team; don't see him as a center though.

I also don't want to see him traded before we get a real HC in here.

 

 

 

Still not true. 

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14 hours ago, Curt said:

(1) Every team wants to play faster, regardless of system or play style.  No team wants to play slower.  Whatever strategy a team wants to employ, they want the players to execute it fast, not slow.

(2) How does Reinhart at W help the team play faster than Reinhart at C?

1 -- yes -- not sure what your point is here.

2 -- I think if Reino is the C, and therefore frequently carrying the puck up ice from deep in his own zone, his line will play more slowly than if he is the W and if a faster guy is carrying it up ice.

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32 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

1 -- yes -- not sure what your point is here.

2 -- I think if Reino is the C, and therefore frequently carrying the puck up ice from deep in his own zone, his line will play more slowly than if he is the W and if a faster guy is carrying it up ice.

(1) was just a general point.  Every coach will say this, so Granato saying it doesn’t mean anything in particular.

(2) I think a W can carry the puck up ice just as easily as a C.  Also, Reinhart is no slower than many C’s.

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Next year when they role out player tracking and we can see Reinhart's top speed and compare it to other players we are gong to have some fun. 

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35 minutes ago, Curt said:

(1) was just a general point.  Every coach will say this, so Granato saying it doesn’t mean anything in particular.

(2) I think a W can carry the puck up ice just as easily as a C.  Also, Reinhart is no slower than many C’s.

I’m not sure #2 is true in today’s NHL.  D like Dahlin and Bryson are being relied on more then ever to move the puck up.  Besides Hall in his MVP year, how many wingers actually drive their line’s offense? Even Ovie relies on Kuznetsov to get him the puck in scoring areas.  Moving Sam to center maximizes his skill set imho and unleashes his playmaking skills.  

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Other than a rare exception like Eichel, what centres are regularly carrying the puck out from deep in the defensive zone? Through the neutral zone at time, but I don't see it happening much coming out of our zone.

It is primarily the job of the defenceman to do this, sometimes by skating, more often by passing to a winger.

I sometimes think line driver means different things to different people. Sam Reinhart generally makes the game easier for the players he is on the ice with because he gets you the puck when you want it, and he gets himself where you want him. We know he's Jack's favourite linemate, and I suspect he is probably the consensus favourite of anyone on the team.

Reinhart does get knocked down at times, but the idea he constantly loses puck battles is both wrong and utterly misses the point. Wayne Gretzky lost most of his puck battles, but so what? Sam retrieves pucks better than anyone else on the team and he makes plays in the dirty areas more than anyone else on the team, mostly through positioning and anticipation.

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10 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Other than a rare exception like Eichel, what centres are regularly carrying the puck out from deep in the defensive zone? Through the neutral zone at time, but I don't see it happening much coming out of our zone.

It is primarily the job of the defenceman to do this, sometimes by skating, more often by passing to a winger.

I sometimes think line driver means different things to different people. Sam Reinhart generally makes the game easier for the players he is on the ice with because he gets you the puck when you want it, and he gets himself where you want him. We know he's Jack's favourite linemate, and I suspect he is probably the consensus favourite of anyone on the team.

Reinhart does get knocked down at times, but the idea he constantly loses puck battles is both wrong and utterly misses the point. Wayne Gretzky lost most of his puck battles, but so what? Sam retrieves pucks better than anyone else on the team and he makes plays in the dirty areas more than anyone else on the team, mostly through positioning and anticipation.

To the thread topic/discussion, I'm not sure if Sam is a center or not. But I do agree with your first thing there, and definitely think that Sam is our best neutral zone player not named Eichel (who is only the best because of how good he is at transition, but he doesn't have the awareness and consistency with positioning and passing to teammates in the same region) 

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1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I’m not sure #2 is true in today’s NHL.  D like Dahlin and Bryson are being relied on more then ever to move the puck up.  Besides Hall in his MVP year, how many wingers actually drive their line’s offense? Even Ovie relies on Kuznetsov to get him the puck in scoring areas.  Moving Sam to center maximizes his skill set imho and unleashes his playmaking skills.  

Firstly, I dispute that Ovechkin does not carry the puck into the offensive zone often.

I think plenty of wingers carry the puck through the neutral zone and make a lot of zone entries.  Here some who really do it a lot.

Pasternak

Gaudreau

Kane

Panarin

Duclair

Meier

Schwartz

Nylander 

JT Miller

Pacioretty

Ovechkin

Ehlers 

K Connor
 

Here is a site that has actual data on this.  Reinhart has probably been doing it more than you think.

https://oilersnation.com/2020/09/14/best-nhl-forwards-at-carrying-the-puck-into-offensive-zone/

 

Edited by Curt
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1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Other than a rare exception like Eichel, what centres are regularly carrying the puck out from deep in the defensive zone? Through the neutral zone at time, but I don't see it happening much coming out of our zone.

It is primarily the job of the defenceman to do this, sometimes by skating, more often by passing to a winger.

I sometimes think line driver means different things to different people. Sam Reinhart generally makes the game easier for the players he is on the ice with because he gets you the puck when you want it, and he gets himself where you want him. We know he's Jack's favourite linemate, and I suspect he is probably the consensus favourite of anyone on the team.

Reinhart does get knocked down at times, but the idea he constantly loses puck battles is both wrong and utterly misses the point. Wayne Gretzky lost most of his puck battles, but so what? Sam retrieves pucks better than anyone else on the team and he makes plays in the dirty areas more than anyone else on the team, mostly through positioning and anticipation.

Yup

People sometimes conflate puck carrier with play driver, which is more of an analytical term which encapsulates the very things you just outlined. 

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5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Next year when they role out player tracking and we can see Reinhart's top speed and compare it to other players we are gong to have some fun. 

When I say a player is 'slow' I am more referring to how they play, not just top speed.  

Eichel vs McDavid for example.  In a couple of fastest skater contests, they are almost the same speed.  Eichel has been/is so close to McDavid in terms of top speed it is amazing. But Eichel 'plays' a lot slower than McDavid (considering their skating top speed is so close to being equal).  Reinhart, I don't know what is top skating speed is, but to me he 'plays' slow, I never see a burst of speed from him where he is able to go around a guy or out-race someone to a puck.

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At this point I’m almost hoping they trade Sam.  He goes to a contender, wins the cup and takes home the Conn Smyth.   People’s  dislike of him is pathological.  I want the Sabres to take it in the shorts and I want Sam to fully blossom on a team with actual good players.  I will dance the stupidest jig while pounding bourbon and smoking a blunt.  Fans are delusional. 

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Pretty sure Weave nailed it a long time ago.  Reinhart is Patrick Sharp.  He is the Sabres best W and can be a good C. 

The huge Q becomes/ is: would / will his potential at C bring more value than his play at W bring?  IMHO, he's more valuable at W when all are healthy.  

C vs W really only matters when the play starts in, or has been fully developed in, the defensive zone.  In the offensive zone it becomes F1, F2, F3 rather than L, C, & R.  Coming back into the zone, the 1st F back slots into the low slot C role & if that isn't the C they stick w/ it until there's an obvious opportunity to switch.  Rushing up the ice, whoever's high breaks out, & if a D joins the rush somebody covers.

But when the play is established in the zone, it's typically preferable for the C to be big, fast, & able to win battles.  That, and when taking faceoffs, really is the only time yours truly gives a rat's rear end which guy is the C.  Eichel is clearly the team's top C.  With Staal gone & Eichel and Cozens both out the options at 1&2 C are Mittelstadt, Reinhart, Eakin, Sheehan, Asplund, & Lazar.  Kinda seeing why Sam is getting his chance.  But like Sam working at W w/ Eichel more than centering his own line all things being equal (and actually an option).

Especially when there are still Olofsson, Hall, & Skinner available at wing with Okposo adequate as well, can see why Sam is more valuable at present at C at minimum in a let's see how it works stance.

Mittelstadt has played well this year as the 4C & the 2C.  Cozens has looked OK at C, though truly wasn't all that impressed with his work in front of his net, but can see the potential.

Still expect them to try to get another 2C next year, but Mitts or Cozens might find themselves there.  Either way, doubting Sam is the 2C when camp breaks in October. 

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Did he play tonight?

<checks scoresheet>

Ah there he is... 

0g 0a, 0 hits, -1, 4 for 7 on facoeoff 

 

 

 

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On 4/5/2021 at 10:09 PM, Taro T said:

Pretty sure Weave nailed it a long time ago.  Reinhart is Patrick Sharp.  He is the Sabres best W and can be a good C. 

The huge Q becomes/ is: would / will his potential at C bring more value than his play at W bring?  IMHO, he's more valuable at W when all are healthy.  

C vs W really only matters when the play starts in, or has been fully developed in, the defensive zone.  In the offensive zone it becomes F1, F2, F3 rather than L, C, & R.  Coming back into the zone, the 1st F back slots into the low slot C role & if that isn't the C they stick w/ it until there's an obvious opportunity to switch.  Rushing up the ice, whoever's high breaks out, & if a D joins the rush somebody covers.

But when the play is established in the zone, it's typically preferable for the C to be big, fast, & able to win battles.  That, and when taking faceoffs, really is the only time yours truly gives a rat's rear end which guy is the C.  Eichel is clearly the team's top C.  With Staal gone & Eichel and Cozens both out the options at 1&2 C are Mittelstadt, Reinhart, Eakin, Sheehan, Asplund, & Lazar.  Kinda seeing why Sam is getting his chance.  But like Sam working at W w/ Eichel more than centering his own line all things being equal (and actually an option).

Especially when there are still Olofsson, Hall, & Skinner available at wing with Okposo adequate as well, can see why Sam is more valuable at present at C at minimum in a let's see how it works stance.

Mittelstadt has played well this year as the 4C & the 2C.  Cozens has looked OK at C, though truly wasn't all that impressed with his work in front of his net, but can see the potential.

Still expect them to try to get another 2C next year, but Mitts or Cozens might find themselves there.  Either way, doubting Sam is the 2C when camp breaks in October. 

You’re a couple of pages too late 😁 but thanks for the affirmation.

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3 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Did he play tonight?

<checks scoresheet>

Ah there he is... 

0g 0a, 0 hits, -1, 4 for 7 on facoeoff 

 

 

 

So his faceoffs improved! 

Lol hits as a metric.

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39 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So his faceoffs improved! 

Lol hits as a metric.

Maybe he should have listed his PDO? 🤪

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Every few weeks Reinhart gives a Pi an opening.

I didn't think Sam was great last night. In fact, most of the veterans kinda faded into the background.

Fortunately, the kids popped and picked up the slack.

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13 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Every few weeks Reinhart gives a Pi an opening.

I didn't think Sam was great last night. In fact, most of the veterans kinda faded into the background.

Fortunately, the kids popped and picked up the slack.

Who is Pi’s favorite player?  I bet he puts up sick stats every single game.

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