2020-21 Trade Rumors and Speculation

[Thorny]

20 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I disagree wholeheartedly, to me Joki is borderline untouchable. He's literally our only young RHD who has a lick of defensive ability.

I'd certainly trade 8 and a prospect outside of Cozens to acquire a 2C but I'm not robbing Peter to pay Paul. 

RNH really isn't a great choice due to his contract ending at the end of 20-21. He's a good player but I'm not buying what could be a rental. He's also more of a 60 pt player based on his career statistics.

Monahan isn't what we need for a 2C. He doesn't create much offense on his own but rather is a triggerman. If he were with Olofsson or Skinner I doubt much would get accomplished as you would have two shooters without a catalyst. Johnny Hockey is what makes Monahan a 1C/2C. Just watch all his goals from the past few years and watch how many are him actually bringing the puck in or running the play before scoring versus where Gudreau dances around before shuttling pass to Monahan who shovels it or guns it home. 

To be honest I would rather go after a slightly cheaper option in Henrique than either since he''s under contract and can personally score a goal without needing everyone to facilitate him.

There is such a wild disconnect in terms of how people are using "untouchable", vs how I'm perceiving it. Joki is untouchable because management has failed to acquire other young D like him? He's not an asset that's ridiculously difficult to acquire. If we can trade him for a better player, he should be out the door. 

RNH...I was looking at both his most recent 2 seasons since coming into his own. 

I flat disagree Monahan is "not what we need" at 2C. He would be the best C we've acquired since ROR, and I dunno when before that. 

We're really sitting here, as a team who's best recent C acquisition in Botterill's entire 3 year term was Curtis Lazar, after hearing endless, "well WHO was even available?!?" posts re:replacing ROR, and saying 1st line C Sean Monahan isn't what we need, at the expense of a second pair defenseman.

Alrighty then. Haha 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Thorny

[Thorny]

8 minutes ago, Curt said:

RNH is under contract one more season, then is a UFA.  I wouldn’t.

Monahan is tougher, for sure.

 I'm assuming the deal comes with an extension for the sake of argument re: RNH. 

I don't think anyone wants a 1 year rental. 

[Curt]

Just now, Thorny said:

 I'm assuming the deal comes with an extension for the sake of argument re: RNH. 

I don't think anyone wants a 1 year rental. 

I don’t think that is a reasonable expectation.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

I don’t think that is a reasonable expectation.

I'm pretty sure dudacek would have that worked into his hypothetical proposition. 

This is a hypothetical argument and immaterial to my point. My trade thoughts were inclusive of a RNH under contract. If you don't like that, substitute Monahan.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Thorny

[thewookie1]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

There is such a wild disconnect in terms of how people are using "untouchable", vs how I'm perceiving it. Joki is untouchable because management has failed to acquire other young D like him? He's not an asset that's ridiculously difficult to acquire. If we can trade him for a better player, he should be out the door. 

RNH...I was looking at both his most recent 2 seasons since coming into his own. 

I flat disagree Monahan is "not what we need" at 2C. He would be the best C we've acquired since ROR, and I dunno when before that. 

Yes, from a skill point he would be; but I want to build a team that is successful. ROR could generate on his own and that is what we need at 2C, and Monahan really isn't that.

 

Every line needs a shooter, a creator/playmaker, and some kind of grimy/grindy player willing to go into the corner. One player can be many of those things but one line needs some amount of each on a consistent basis.

Eichel brings a lot of this by himself

Who else can we even fathom that about: 

Reinhart can be all three but does so rarely

Skinner is a shooter with tenacity

Olofsson is a shooter with some playmaking skills

Johansson is a playmaker sometimes.

Monahan is a shooter and an occasional creator. (He's just a better Olofsson stylistically) 

 

 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Agree - and I said as much. No desire to trade him, as I stated. 

Confusing. I didn't take issue with anything in your post. I said he was good, not great - I obviously understand that young players improve. 

I wasn't trying to diminish his play, I was alluding to how interesting it is that Joki gets a rep for being this incredibly sound decision maker, and Dahlin a turnover mistake prone fiend, when in reality Joki had the worse turnover to take away ratio. 

---

You are arguing as if my position is anti-jokiharju and then, after proclaiming him to be good, stating that's why he's untouchable.

My argument that you bypassed was about how I view the "untouchable" designation as a whole. Which went unadressed.

I'm not suggesting that you are anti-Joki. That is not to say that I don't value him more highly than you might. I also believe that this 20 yr. old youngster has more potential to develop.  My stance is that I wouldn't trade him for players such as Monahan, Johansson or Strome to assume the 2C slot. If one believes as I do that in the not too distant future Cozens has the ability to fill the 2C spot then it would make even less sense to trade Joki for the above listed players. 

With respect to Cirelli I definitely would be willing to trade Joki and a first round pick for the Tampa center with the condition that he will sign a deal with us. If not, then I would say no to a Cirelli deal. 

[LGR4GM]

Citelli is an RFA, he would have to sign if traded. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

I disagree wholeheartedly, to me Joki is borderline untouchable. He's literally our only young RHD who has a lick of defensive ability..

Im not sure how you are defining young RHD, but here’s where I say our D isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. It suppresses shots, and it transitions the puck. We have a teenage franchise D, a lot of promising Blueliners coming and the group we have is pretty young already.

People said things like this about Mittelstadt, Girgensons, Pysyk...Hell, they probably said it about Morris Titanic.

[Andrew Amerk]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

 

Definitely. Joki and 8 for Monahan or RNH is also a no brainer for me. Absolute no brainer. RNH is a 70 point player. 

Please tell me which season RNH hit 70 points. 
 

Don’t worry, I’ll wait. 

[Thorny]

10 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Please tell me which season RNH hit 70 points. 
 

Don’t worry, I’ll wait. 

Damn, you got me. 69 points season before this one. That one point completely bombs my argument, how did I miss that. 

He was pacing for 77 this season, 61 points in 65 games. It's his fault the league halted though. I guess Jack is a 70 point player though right? 

Sarcasm here deserved due to the randomness of the bolded. If you are still in your feelings about being so wrong about Derek Roy, I apologize, and rescind the sarcasm. 

 

 

[Zamboni]

But the burning question is ... is Joker a good role model? Hmmmm trade bait!

 

seriously ... besides Eichel and Dahlin ... if a team wanted to overpay for anybody else on the Sabres roster I would consider it. Especially if it means the Sabres roster is better after the trade. The term untouchable literally means you will not trade him no matter what is offered in return. And for my money… There’s only two players on this team currently that fall into that untouchable category… For me and me only.

[Andrew Amerk]

20 hours ago, Thorny said:

Damn, you got me. 69 points season before this one. That one point completely bombs my argument, how did I miss that. 

He was pacing for 77 this season, 61 points in 65 games. It's his fault the league halted though. I guess Jack is a 70 point player though right? 

Sarcasm here deserved due to the randomness of the bolded. If you are still in your feelings about being so wrong about Derek Roy, I apologize, and rescind the sarcasm. 

 

 

Any feelings that I might have about Derek Roy center around the night I saw him rolling around on the sidewalk on Chippewa. 

[IKnowPhysics]

Which teams will benefit most from a flat salary cap in 2020-21.

https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/which-teams-will-benefit-most-from-a-flat-salary-cap-in-2020-21

"6. BUFFALO SABRES

– 10 players signed for 2020-21
– Projected cap space: $34.48 million
– Projected LTIR players: none

It should be an interesting off-season for Kevyn Adams, handed his first chance at being a GM after the Pegulas fired Jason Botterill. Buffalo has just four forwards signed for next season. Adams has a few important RFAs to sort out: Sam Reinhart has earned a long-term extension, Victor Olofsson has played his way into a bridge-deal raise, and 1A starting goalie Linus Ullmark needs a new contract. But if that trio combines to take up, say, $12 million in cap space, Adams will have plenty of cash left over.

What to do with it? The Sabres, like so many of the rebuilding teams, could use their cap space to bail teams out and score picks. But captain Jack Eichel’s public exasperation after opening his career with five straight playoff misses likely puts the heat on Adams to make this team a winner ASAP. That means Buffalo might be sneaky-aggressive in trades and free agency this summer. Then again, with so few bodies signed, it could be risky to break the bank on one or two impact players. And with the bad PR surrounding the team in recent months (years?), the Sabres also might have to overpay to lure any top-end UFAs."

[Ducky]

#8 and Joki for RNH is absurd especially since you don't know what he wants for his next deal. His numbers are high the last couple of years because his center is the best player on the planet. There may be an argument for the Sabres acquiring Monahan (best season 82 points and routinely puts up more assists than goals) but it shouldn't involve the #8.  I'd give up a lot for Monahan to come to the Jets but not as much if I were the Sabres.

 

edit ... Helle is going to win the Vezina! MVP of the team this year...not even close.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Ducky

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Ducky said:

#8 and Joki for RNH is absurd especially since you don't know what he wants for his next deal. His numbers are high the last couple of years because his center is the best player on the planet. There may be an argument for the Sabres acquiring Monahan (best season 82 points and routinely puts up more assists than goals) but it shouldn't involve the #8.  I'd give up a lot for Monahan to come to the Jets but not as much if I were the Sabres.

 

edit ... Helle is going to win the Vezina! MVP of the team this year...not even close.

If the Sabres and Jets swapped goalies last fall, the Sabres would be playing right now while the Jets fans would be arguing about which players to give up to get a 2C.

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

If the Sabres and Jets swapped goalies last fall, the Sabres would be playing right now while the Jets fans would be arguing about which players to give up to get a 2C.

You make an interesting point regarding our goaltending situation. The most important player for us that will determine success is Ullmark. Is he developed enough and good enough? I hope so but can't say for sure.  

[Ducky]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

If the Sabres and Jets swapped goalies last fall, the Sabres would be playing right now while the Jets fans would be arguing about which players to give up to get a 2C.

That is already happening...

[thewookie1]

Would you do Couture(1.5mil retained) for Okposo, Johansson and #8?

I'd certainly give it thought.

[Eleven]

5 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Would you do Couture(1.5mil retained) for Okposo, Johansson and #8?

I'd certainly give it thought.

Not at his age.

[freester]

6 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Would you do Couture(1.5mil retained) for Okposo, Johansson and #8?

I'd certainly give it thought.

NFW

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

Not at his age.

 

12 minutes ago, freester said:

NFW

Well he'd be better than overpaying for a Strome brother or not bringing in anyone.

[Curt]

52 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Well he'd be better than overpaying for a Strome brother or not bringing in anyone.

Not necessarily.  He is 31, signed for 7 more years at $8M AAV.  He doesn’t fit well with the Sabres timeline.

It’s an absolutely moot question anyway.  He has a modified NTC where he submits a list of just 3 teams that he would accept a trade to.  Not happening.

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Curt

[tom webster]

31 minutes ago, Curt said:

Not necessarily.  He is 31, signed for 7 more years at $8M AAV.  He doesn’t fit well with the Sabres timeline.

It’s an absolutely moot question anyway.  He has a modified NTC where he submits a list of just 3 teams that he would accept a trade to.  Not happening.

 

I don’t think it’s happening but not because of NTC. He’s a huge Bills fan and spends a lot of time in area.

[French Collection]

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

I don’t think it’s happening but not because of NTC. He’s a huge Bills fan and spends a lot of time in area.

He could  consider being a veteran presence, kind of what Thornton does there, when the Sabres are consistently a playoff team.

[freester]

2 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

 

Well he'd be better than overpaying for a Strome brother or not bringing in anyone.

We can’t give up #8 with a flat cap looming. We have no high end young talent on entry level contracts except Cozens