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dudacek

True or false: Risto was much improved under Ralph?

Yes or no  

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  1. 1. Yes or no

    • Yes. True
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    • Nope
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5 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Yes.  He played better this past season.   i still think he can be a beast in the right situation.

 

When it comes to trading him or Montour for help at forward  I vote to trade Montour.   i think Risto is better and has more upside still. 

I've been on the trade Montour bandwagon since last fall.  Just don't care for his style, and he is one bargaining chip that could be used to bring in much needed forward help...by himself or in a package.

 

Back to the thread topic...Risto was better than in past years, but that isn't saying much.  I'd give him another season.

Edited by LabattBlue
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1 hour ago, darksabre said:

I don't remember much about Chara during that time, but the consensus seems to be that he was the opposite of Risto: good defensively, but late in developing his offensive game. I mean, he was really good by the time he left Ottawa in free agency.

 

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

I remember plenty of brain farts.  We all knew he was going to grow into something, but I don't think we all knew he was going to be as great as he has become.  I certainly didn't think so.

He made Baby Giraffe (aka Thompson) look positively graceful by comparison.  His skating was awful.  He was a goon that flashed potential should he ever gain control of those limbs.  There was a reason he was often 3rd pairing on bad Aisles teams & even when he had pretty much figured it out by the time he hit FA in Otterland, the Otters chose to give the big bucks to Redden rather than Chara.  They thought he was the safer bet to be a #1 & they saw him every single day.

He fully came into his own in B land.  (Helps to be on a MFT while still have goony tendencies; but the rest of his game blossomed as well.)

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25 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

He made Baby Giraffe (aka Thompson) look positively graceful by comparison.  His skating was awful.  He was a goon that flashed potential should he ever gain control of those limbs.  There was a reason he was often 3rd pairing on bad Aisles teams & even when he had pretty much figured it out by the time he hit FA in Otterland, the Otters chose to give the big bucks to Redden rather than Chara.  They thought he was the safer bet to be a #1 & they saw him every single day.

He fully came into his own in B land.  (Helps to be on a MFT while still have goony tendencies; but the rest of his game blossomed as well.)

When he got to Ottawa they had a solid D core in place so he didn't have to be "the guy," even as a mid-20 year old.  I remember watching a lot of Ottawa games with the other team celebrating and Chara looking up to the rafters. 

He figured it out in Ottawa and proved a lot of naysayers wrong when he continued to contribute, and improve, after joining the Bs.  So it took him into his late 20s, and 2 teams, before he fully developed.  Its not unreasonable to think Risto still has some upside.

Edited by SHAAAUGHT!!!
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Heck no, not even close. Ever so slightly. He’s not good. 

When Rasmus Ristolainen is on the ice, other teams get the better of the Buffalo Sabres. 

Edited by Thorny

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5 hours ago, dudacek said:

I don’t expect Risto to get much better than he was this year, I just think that he’s pretty good already.
He’s a nasty defenceman who can eat minutes and put up 40 points and wants to make a difference. He also lacks poise and is guilty of forcing things and of trying to do too much.

The player we saw this year Is a solid 2/3 NHL defenceman, and should continue to be that going forward, so long as he’s properly used and slotted.

Risto, a number 2 (first pairing?!) D? I mean...

The consensus though here is Chara so perhaps you are low balling it.

On an interesting side note, the juxtaposition of all the “19 year old Dahlin is disappointing and not living up to expectation” threads/comments and the “Wait wait wait we gotta give Rasmus Ristolainen, who’s been terrible, until age 30 to reach Chara levels cause he’s a big boy” comments is astounding. 

Edited by Thorny

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8 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

You think a soon to be 26 year old with 7 NHL seasons of experience has some magical upside somewhere? He is what he is. The only real question is using him effectively. 

If he were a forward I might agree.  Defensemen continue to evolve, even past 26.    I saw it with Alex Pietrangelo. Before that I saw it with Chris Pronger.   Yes, he has more upside and it’s not magical.  It’s called experience.  

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I think Risto, like the team generally, was unquestionably better in the D-zone this season, and I'm inclined to credit RK's defensive structure and power of positive thinking.

I continue to feel that Risto is a flawed but good and valuable player that has been stuck in a terrible situation throughout his career, that I'd like him to stay and be part of the resurgence that I really freaking hope is coming, and that if they trade him, it had better be for a really GD good C or RW. 

It will be interesting to see whether TP allows JB to trade Risto without some other hockey person signing off on the deal.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I think Risto, like the team generally, was unquestionably better in the D-zone this season, and I'm inclined to credit RK's defensive structure and power of positive thinking.

I continue to feel that Risto is a flawed but good and valuable player that has been stuck in a terrible situation throughout his career, that I'd like him to stay and be part of the resurgence that I really freaking hope is coming, and that if they trade him, it had better be for a really GD good C or RW. 

It will be interesting to see whether TP allows JB to trade Risto without some other hockey person signing off on the deal.

 

 

Hadn’t Botterill already been attempting to trade Risto for months, and no one bit? 

Edited by Thorny
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4 hours ago, Eleven said:

I remember plenty of brain farts.  We all knew he was going to grow into something, but I don't think we all knew he was going to be as great as he has become.  I certainly didn't think so.

The Islanders certainly had no idea. But he was good by the time he left Ottawa and he knew it. 

Risto, on the other hand, seems to be a bigger question mark at the moment. We know he produces a reasonable amount of points, but his defensive game is more Hal Gill than Chara. 

I'm not sure where that leaves him developmentally. He needs to do the opposite of Chara: become a better contributor to the defense relative to his teammates. 

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17 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Hadn’t Botterill already been attempting to trade Risto for months, and no one bit? 

Possibly, although we of course really have no idea.

My point about whether TP will trust JB to make this kind of significant move by himself is in part based on Tim Graham's recent comments in the Athletic to the effect that TP was/is pretty close to firing JB.

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9 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Possibly, although we of course really have no idea.

My point about whether TP will trust JB to make this kind of significant move by himself is in part based on Tim Graham's recent comments in the Athletic to the effect that TP was/is pretty close to firing JB.

It would be interesting to see. I feel like generally teams have no choice but to let their guy make moves if they’ve gone with that guy, even reluctantly. No one else in the org would be qualified to make the decisions. We saw it with Chiarelli when he signed that goalie to a contract right before he was canned. 

Whether Botterill WILL trade him is another question and to that I’m doubtful. He hasn’t moved a significant roster player since ROR 2 years ago. 

Edited by Thorny

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40 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Risto, a number 2 (first pairing?!) D? I mean...

I believe Risto is 2/3.

That means I am happy with him anchoring my 2nd pair, or being the support guy on the first pair with a stronger partner, and getting 19-22 minutes a night, without being sheltered. It also means if I was doing a from-scratch draft of all NHL defencemen I’d probably rank him somewhere in the 50-80 range. 

The fact that someone arbitrarily decided how many goals should have been scored by all ten skaters while he was on the ice - apropos of situations, coaching, linemates, and opponents - then came to the conclusion that by winning slightly less than half of these arbitrary situations that means he’s terrible has far less impact on me than watching him play hockey for pretty much every game of his career.

14 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Hadn’t Botterill already been attempting to trade Risto for months, and no one bit? 

If Botterill needs the approval of an outside hockey person to trade a secondary piece like Risto, then he has already been fired.

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21 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I believe Risto is 2/3.

That means I am happy with him anchoring my 2nd pair, or being the support guy on the first pair with a stronger partner, and getting 19-22 minutes a night, without being sheltered. It also means if I was doing a from-scratch draft of all NHL defencemen I’d probably rank him somewhere in the 50-80 range. 

The fact that someone arbitrarily decided how many goals should have been scored by all ten skaters while he was on the ice - apropos of situations, coaching, linemates, and opponents - then came to the conclusion that by winning slightly less than half of these arbitrary situations that means he’s terrible has far less impact on me than watching him play hockey for pretty much every game of his career.

If Botterill needs the approval of an outside hockey person to trade a secondary piece like Risto, then he has already been fired.

I think this is totally fair, and the bolded is the crux of it.

I, also have watched him play pretty much every game of his career, and I think I like the fancy stats so much because they generally line up more plainly with my perception of his performance: 

(I think) he’s a bum.

- - - 

I could have even potentially answered the question with a "yes" if it didn't read, "MUCH" improved. 

I like watching Reinhart play the game. People be out here mentioning Ristolainen in the same breath as Chara and I'm thinking his style of play reminds me more of a durable Bogosian.

...and a fair few saw Bogo, if healthy, as a capable second pair player. So...ya. 

Edited by Thorny

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No one is saying he’s as good as Chara — only that Chara continued to develop and improve even while he was the same age as Risto.  

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3 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

No one is saying he’s as good as Chara — only that Chara continued to develop and improve even while he was the same age as Risto.  

Chara continued to develop because he's a better hockey player. Risto not being Chara is exactly why there's no reason to assume he's got any more development potential left in him. 

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14 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Chara continued to develop because he's a better hockey player.

Doesn't that presuppose everything?  I'm not saying Ristolainen is going to be Chara, but to cut off Ristolainen's development at this point, as whomever I originally responded to did, isn't right.

Edited by Eleven

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I think Risto is alright.

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2 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Doesn't that presuppose everything?  I'm not saying Ristolainen is going to be Chara, but to cut off Ristolainen's development at this point, as whomever I originally responded to did, isn't right.

But it makes sense. Players are only as good as their potential allows them to be. I don't see any reason to believe there is anything left in the tank for Risto. He was a better player earlier in his career than Chara was, but he hasn't really improved much since his second full season. I don't see why I should give him any benefit of the doubt given the way his development has trended to this point. He hit his ceiling at 21 and he's been there ever since. 

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17 minutes ago, darksabre said:

But it makes sense. Players are only as good as their potential allows them to be. I don't see any reason to believe there is anything left in the tank for Risto. He was a better player earlier in his career than Chara was, but he hasn't really improved much since his second full season. I don't see why I should give him any benefit of the doubt given the way his development has trended to this point. He hit his ceiling at 21 and he's been there ever since. 

I agree with this completely.  He has been the roughly the same player for about 5 years.  I see no reason to expect a sudden improvement.  It could happen, sure, but it would make him a serious outlier.

If he had shown gradual improvement over the past few years, then sure, it could be reasonable to predict further improvement, but that’s not what has happened here.

I thought he looked a little better this season, but that it’s probably the result of Krueger’s play style providing better defensive support around him.  I still think he is a 3/4/5 type of guy.  He is ok, and he is pretty good on the PP, but you probably don’t want him getting really tough usage.  He will run a good PP and get very physical at times, but will also leave you holding your head in your hands over some of his decisions in the D-zone.

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2 hours ago, darksabre said:

But it makes sense. Players are only as good as their potential allows them to be. I don't see any reason to believe there is anything left in the tank for Risto.

But that's kind of the same problem.  There was no reason to see Chara rising the way he did, either.  He was just this awkward big dude who screwed up a lot but could level people.  Then be became what he is.

I don't need Ristolainen to remain a Sabre for life, but I do want more than some Alexi Ya$hin in return if the Sabs trade him.

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4 hours ago, Thorny said:

Heck no, not even close. Ever so slightly. He’s not good. 

When Rasmus Ristolainen is on the ice, other teams get the better of the Buffalo Sabres. 

I don't even knife what to do with this post other than laugh.

This is like saying, "See? Less is less than more!"

Where's the wall bash emogi?

3 minutes ago, Eleven said:

But that's kind of the same problem.  There was no reason to see Chara rising the way he did, either.  He was just this awkward big dude who screwed up a lot but could level people.  Then be became what he is.

I don't need Ristolainen to remain a Sabre for life, but I do want more than some Alexi Ya$hin in return if the Sabs trade him.

Is Yashin still getting paid?

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Just now, SwampD said:

Is Yashin still getting paid?

Probably?  By the Isles or Carol Alt or both?  Gotta hand it to the guy...

 

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12 hours ago, Pimlach said:

If he were a forward I might agree.  Defensemen continue to evolve, even past 26.    I saw it with Alex Pietrangelo. Before that I saw it with Chris Pronger.   Yes, he has more upside and it’s not magical.  It’s called experience.  

Alex was good even when he was 22. Pronger did it when he was 24 and 25. 

 

10 hours ago, Eleven said:

Doesn't that presuppose everything?  I'm not saying Ristolainen is going to be Chara, but to cut off Ristolainen's development at this point, as whomever I originally responded to did, isn't right.

Sure it is. We know what Risto is. 

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