Risto said it's time for him to go?

[dudacek]

Renault Lavoie Tweet:

The @BuffaloSabres are still trying to trade Rasmus Ristolainen. No takers so far but it could change at one point in the next few days

 

Hes a Montreal TV guy and well-connected. You’re forgiven if visions of toe-dragging giraffes and RJ mistakenly calling players Svoboda are now dancing in your head.

What a cluster***** 

[Marvin]

On 6/22/2019 at 7:15 PM, dudacek said:

Renault Lavoie Tweet:

The @BuffaloSabres are still trying to trade Rasmus Ristolainen. No takers so far but it could change at one point in the next few days

 

Hes a Montreal TV guy and well-connected. You’re forgiven if visions of toe-dragging giraffes and RJ mistakenly calling players Svoboda are now dancing in your head.

What a cluster***** 

The consensus from the people I know is that the Sabres are not "trying to trade" Ristolainen; it is that they are willing to trade him and openly discuss packages with other teams.  Allegedly, this is not as aggressive as the O'Reilly situation last year.

[dudacek]

18 minutes ago, E4 ... Ke2 said:

The consensus from the people I know is that the Sabres are not "trying to trade" Ristolainen; it is that they are willing to trade him and openly discuss packages with other teams.  Allegedly, this is not as aggressive as the O'Reilly situation last year.

Who are the people you know?

[Marvin]

41 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Who are the people you know?

Among others, my brother's friends in the NHL corporate offices, a friend in Vancouver from my days in Doctor Who fandom, a couple of hockey writers who have written books on the NHL.

Remember that their stuff is predicated upon their opinions, so the information is at best second-hand when I get it.  Their impression is that it is that JBot is trying as fiercely to trade Ristolainen.  My brother's friend in the NHL offices kind of ruefully said that, and I quote, "JBot may have learned his lesson with O'Reilly.  We Sabres fans have to hope so."  That quote bothers me, and I can't quite put my finger on why.

[Tondas]

Sorry to be obtuse about this, but could Jbot be looking to trade Risto due to Seattle expansion concerns.  Maybe he believes that there will be other D-men on the team that he will protect and leave Risto exposed.  Better to get something for him now than to possibly lose him for nothing (or be in a worse bargaining position at that point).

[dudacek]

It sure feels like we’ve seen this movie before.

Ristolainen is O’Reilly all over again with the mopey locker room clean out interview, the “not trying to trade him but will listen to offers” reports, the Lebrun nuggets about the Sabre being a real valuable asset, the Sabre fanbase rating the player more highly than the consensus from other fanbases and the draft passing without a deal.

I’m not seeing a lot of reason to hope we can flip the script on the ending.

Edited June 25, 2019 by dudacek

[Broken Ankles]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

It sure feels like we’ve seen this movie before.

Ristolainen is O’Reilly all over again with the mopey locker room clean out interview, the “not trying to trade him but will listen to offers” reports, the Lebrun nuggets about the Sabre being a real valuable asset, the Sabre fanbase rating the player more highly than the consensus from other fanbases and the draft passing without a deal.

I’m not seeing a lot of reason to hope we can flip the script on the ending.

Look on the bright side.  At least he doesn't have a $7.5M signing bonus due in 6 days creating an imaginary line of demarcation.   Or an egregious driving record of crashing into Timmy Ho's while intoxicated (allegedly) frustrating ownership.   

[Broken Ankles]

6 hours ago, E4 ... Ke2 said:

Among others, my brother's friends in the NHL corporate offices, a friend in Vancouver from my days in Doctor Who fandom, a couple of hockey writers who have written books on the NHL.

Remember that their stuff is predicated upon their opinions, so the information is at best second-hand when I get it.  Their impression is that it is that JBot is trying as fiercely to trade Ristolainen.  My brother's friend in the NHL offices kind of ruefully said that, and I quote, "JBot may have learned his lesson with O'Reilly.  We Sabres fans have to hope so."  That quote bothers me, and I can't quite put my finger on why.

If by "learning his lesson" it means if he doesn't see a top 6 winger with upside and a team friendly contract as part of the return package, and we keep him for next season then great.  I'd love to shake up our D with two new faces but if teams are holding out for another O'Reilly Fleecing" then maybe he needs to stand pat.   Let's follow the advice of Alanis........

And all I really want is some patience
A way to calm the angry voice
And all I really want is deliverance, ah

The O'Reilly trade is Jason's Jagged Little Pill.

[TrueBlueGED]

8 hours ago, dudacek said:

It sure feels like we’ve seen this movie before.

Ristolainen is O’Reilly all over again with the mopey locker room clean out interview, the “not trying to trade him but will listen to offers” reports, the Lebrun nuggets about the Sabre being a real valuable asset, the Sabre fanbase rating the player more highly than the consensus from other fanbases and the draft passing without a deal.

I’m not seeing a lot of reason to hope we can flip the script on the ending.

I'm actually concerned he does the opposite. He was so burned by the ROR trade that he won't pull the trigger on Risto unless he gets a grand slam offer. 

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, TrueBlueGED said:

I'm actually concerned he does the opposite. He was so burned by the ROR trade that he won't pull the trigger on Risto unless he gets a grand slam offer. 

This is definitely something that has crossed my mind.

[Derrico]

Maybe it’s wishful thinking but potentially other gms all saw how they missed out on ROR trade last year and want to make sure they don’t miss out on another perceived buffalo fleecing thus driving the price up?

[Thorny]

23 hours ago, dudacek said:

It sure feels like we’ve seen this movie before.

Ristolainen is O’Reilly all over again with the mopey locker room clean out interview, the “not trying to trade him but will listen to offers” reports, the Lebrun nuggets about the Sabre being a real valuable asset, the Sabre fanbase rating the player more highly than the consensus from other fanbases and the draft passing without a deal.

I’m not seeing a lot of reason to hope we can flip the script on the ending.

The difference being that ROR was very good and Ristolainen is not, which leads me to worry about...

15 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said:

I'm actually concerned he does the opposite. He was so burned by the ROR trade that he won't pull the trigger on Risto unless he gets a grand slam offer. 

That ^

[Brawndo]

On 6/25/2019 at 12:01 AM, Tondas said:

Sorry to be obtuse about this, but could Jbot be looking to trade Risto due to Seattle expansion concerns.  Maybe he believes that there will be other D-men on the team that he will protect and leave Risto exposed.  Better to get something for him now than to possibly lose him for nothing (or be in a worse bargaining position at that point).

Seattle hired one of the Wild’s Former Analytics Gurus Alexandra Mandracky to run their analytics department and assist in hiring their GM. They are not touching Risto. 

[Tondas]

12 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Seattle hired one of the Wild’s Former Analytics Gurus Alexandra Mandracky to run their analytics department and assist in hiring their GM. They are not touching Risto. 

Then that's good news for those that want to keep Risto, correct?  Expose him and not another D-man knowing that Seattle will pass.

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, Tondas said:

Then that's good news for those that want to keep Risto, correct?  Expose him and not another D-man knowing that Seattle will pass.

That's one possibility.  They can defectors protect 4 D-men.

The other is that Seattle would definitely take Ristolainen realizing that they could get a better return on him by choosing him & then trading him to a team less analytically driven and end up with a better haul than had McCabe simply been exposed and taken.  (Or Pilut.)

[Tondas]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

That's one possibility.  They can defectors protect 4 D-men.

The other is that Seattle would definitely take Ristolainen realizing that they could get a better return on him by choosing him & then trading him to a team less analytically driven and end up with a better haul than had McCabe simply been exposed and taken.  (Or Pilut.)

Why can't the Sabres just trade Risto to a team less analytically driven now??

[CallawaySabres]

Risto will not be traded for anything less than a #2 center and that will probably not happen. No way our GM botches a trade so close to the O'Reilly mess

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, Tondas said:

Why can't the Sabres just trade Risto to a team less analytically driven now??

They can.

The issue is or would appear to be, so far either Botterill hasn't received an offer he thinks improves the Sabres talent overall or he's trying to play multiple suitors off against each other getting a better haul.

He also might want to wait and see if Kreuger can become the "defenseman whisperer" that Housley was reported to be.

[Tondas]

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

They can.

The issue is or would appear to be, so far either Botterill hasn't received an offer he thinks improves the Sabres talent overall or he's trying to play multiple suitors off against each other getting a better haul.

He also might want to wait and see if Kreuger can become the "defenseman whisperer" that Housley was reported to be.

I'll concede to point #1.  No offer has been good enough yet in Jbot's eyes.  #2, not sure there are multiple teams clamoring to get Risto.  #3, Risto is all that Risto is going to be after 5 years in the NHL.  Kreuger may be a good coach, but he's not a miracle worker.

[inkman]

On 6/25/2019 at 11:17 AM, Derrico said:

Maybe it’s wishful thinking but potentially other gms all saw how they missed out on ROR trade last year and want to make sure they don’t miss out on another perceived buffalo fleecing thus driving the price up?

Let's not ignore the bending over Carolina took on the Skinner deal. It seems everyone wants to judge JBOT on the negative whilst ignoring the positives. 

[Randall Flagg]

1 minute ago, inkman said:

Let's not ignore the bending over Carolina took on the Skinner deal. It seems everyone wants to judge JBOT on the negative whilst ignoring the positives. 

Though I give GMJB full credit for the Skinner acquisition and re-signing, it is worth noting that Skinner's choosing his location dramatically reduced the return Carolina was likely to get. He more or less asked to come here

I think any Buffalo GM in 2018, of any competence level, would have made roughly the same trade

But it was the right move and he did it so he gets the GM points 

[dudacek]

You can make excuses as to why he killed it on the Skinner deal or messed up on the O’Reilly deal.

All that really matters and all you can judge him on is the net result: has he made the team better?

After two years he hasn’t. You can argue he may have improved the big picture with his development emphasis and the way he’s cleared up the cap, but neither of those moves has paid off yet in wins.

That’s why this year is a big deal for him.

[Taro T]

35 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Though I give GMJB full credit for the Skinner acquisition and re-signing, it is worth noting that Skinner's choosing his location dramatically reduced the return Carolina was likely to get. He more or less asked to come here

I think any Buffalo GM in 2018, of any competence level, would have made roughly the same trade

But it was the right move and he did it so he gets the GM points 

I'd expect Murray would've given more to make sure that deal happened.  Can't prove it; but fully believe it.

[Sabel79]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

I'd expect Murray would've given more to make sure that deal happened.  Can't prove it; but fully believe it.

There definitely would have been a 1st round pick / higher-end prospect involved.  If not both.  

[nfreeman]

33 minutes ago, dudacek said:

You can make excuses as to why he killed it on the Skinner deal or messed up on the O’Reilly deal.

All that really matters and all you can judge him on is the net result: has he made the team better?

After two years he hasn’t. You can argue he may have improved the big picture with his development emphasis and the way he’s cleared up the cap, but neither of those moves has paid off yet in wins.

That’s why this year is a big deal for him.

I agree with all of this, except that I kinda think TP is inclined to be pretty patient as long as he sees improvement.  We might be ready to break out the torches and pitchforks if they finish, say, 9-10 points out of the playoffs, but I think if they get to 88-89 points (a 12-13 point improvement), don't look like they are running for the bus in March, the players aren't in open revolt/demanding to be traded and the organization overall looks well constructed, then TP will lean towards stability and away from putting JB on the hot seat.  This is the tack he seems to be taking with the Bills and I think it's the image he wants to project.