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Trade Speculation and Rumors 2018-19

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Per Dreger it would take a hell of an offer to acquire ROR

Also, water is wet. 

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Unless, it's frozen ...  :P

The sky is blue... then

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The sky is blue... then

Clouds man. Clouds

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The sky is blue... then

 

But, but ... it isn't.  It just looks that way.

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But, but ... it isn't. It just looks that way.

By definition it is... it is whatever we call it, I cant do that devil emoji and cell phone :) Edited by North Buffalo

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But, but ... it isn't.  It just looks that way.

 

Yes, as is everything.  

 

Let's not get into a prolonged color theory discussion though.

 

First we have to decide if we are talking additive light or subtractive light.  Then we have to decide if we want to define the color we see by its wavelength only since the concept of "color" doesn't work.  Everyone's brain is responsible for turning the electrical signal generated by optic nerve in response to the reception of the blue light wave but it doesn't mean we all see the same "color".

 

Okay.. I'm done.

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Yes, as is everything.  

 

Let's not get into a prolonged color theory discussion though.

 

First we have to decide if we are talking additive light or subtractive light.  Then we have to decide if we want to define the color we see by its wavelength only since the concept of "color" doesn't work.  Everyone's brain is responsible for turning the electrical signal generated by optic nerve in response to the reception of the blue light wave but it doesn't mean we all see the same "color".

 

Okay.. I'm done.

Or under less scientific terms but philosophical terms the color blue is as we each individually define it and as such is the color blue. The rest is just an arguement over perception that none of us can prove. :)

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Freidman mentioned the only 3 real trade pieces we have now that Kane is gone.  The problem is we can't replace any of them and I find it hard to imagine what we'd get back in trade that would improve another area so much as the team would be net better by the trade.  

 

Lets examine the trade candidates

1) ROR - sad comments aside, the guy actually had one of his best pts years playing the 2nd center, with hard minutes on a terrible team.  We have no decent or proven centers in the organization behind him and Jack.  The Samson at center experiment failed and Casey is much to raw.  I can't see a team trading us their 2nd line center for ours and we coming out better for the experience since ROR is also the best faceoff guy in the NHL.   We could trade ROR for a top 4 D, but then we'd have to trade Risto to someone for a replacement.  That seems like making moves just to make moves.

2) Ristolainen - It may be true that he has had a bad attitude at times.  He has an ego and has been carrying the D load for this team for three years with very little help.  I'd be annoyed also.  Scandella is the first step in the right direction and Dahlin will be step two.  Dahlin however isn't ready to carry first line minutes but should be able to lessen some of the load on Risto.  So lets trade him now just when the group is rounding out because he doesn't listen all the time.  That makes no sense.  The best playoff teams are deep on defense.  We have 3 maybe 4 with McCabe.  So lets ship out our best current D and replace him with ...........? Nelson? Guhle? Who?  If you trade him, you'll have to make another move to replace him.  At that point it's just musical chairs.

3) Reinhart is the most easily traded of the three, but we have no other proven wingers in the organization except Okposo and he is 30 and coming off his worst NHL season.  The kid is under our control for another few years and finally showed signs of reaching his potential. So again why trade him now?  The only reason I'd even consider moving him is for a top 4 D of similar age that this is already lock up on a decent contract.  Some like Ristolainen for example.  

 

It just seems to me that is this one of the few occasions to show some patience. Keep the core, add Casey and Dahlin, but cleanout the under brush.  After Dahlin, Casey, Jack, Sam, Risto, Scandella and ROR, put anyone and everyone of the market and see what is available that may improve the team.  If you come up with another miracle package deal to get another Scandella by all means.  

 

We also need to look at what Colorado did.  Sakic found three contributors on waivers and made cheap value acquisitions for guys like Wilson and Yakupov.  

 

I also recommend giving many of glut of youngish forwards we have a legit shot.  We have nothing to loose with trying O'Regan, Baptiste, Bailey, Fasching, ERod, WIlson, Olofsson even Nylander.  We need to find out if they are NHL players and they need an opportunity to prove it.  They can't be worse the crap we fielded in our bottom 6 this season. 

Edited by GASabresIUFAN

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I'm starting to think that if we trade ROR or Risto, we should trade the other to balance back out and complete the core shakeup. 

 

I really think that ROR could get Hamilton and that that would be worth doing, because I think Risto's trade value is higher than his hockey value and could get a forward that makes 

 

New forward + Hamilton > ROR + Risto. 

 

It's tough just trading one of them though, because we don't have another proven top 6 center, and we're already thin on defense. 

 

Trading Risto???  Ridiculous idea, sorry!

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Open to trading anyone and everyone.

But if it’s a core guy, it has to be a hockey trade that improves the team now and down the road.

 

I think we concentrate too much on the flaws of the good players, instead of how we don’t have enough of them.

I maintain the core is less of an issue than the supporting cast and the generally funk of losing.

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Open to trading anyone and everyone.

But if it’s a core guy, it has to be a hockey trade that improves the team now and down the road.

I think we concentrate too much on the flaws of the good players, instead of how we don’t have enough of them.

I maintain the core is less of an issue than the supporting cast and the generally funk of losing.

Generally agree now. The only way you give up ROR is for a top winger a young talented goalie and a prospect. Not likely to happen but that’d be my asking price.

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Open to trading anyone and everyone.

But if it’s a core guy, it has to be a hockey trade that improves the team now and down the road.

 

I think we concentrate too much on the flaws of the good players, instead of how we don’t have enough of them.

I maintain the core is less of an issue than the supporting cast and the generally funk of losing.

Though most of us can't agree who the good players are :P

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This team finished DFL, they better identify why and do something about it.

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This team finished DFL, they better identify why and do something about it.

Right and if Oreilly being an emo is the problem, then goodbye.  Up thread does a nice job detailing his value stats wise, but let's say he's instead a leader with contagious energy and a positive attitude, how does that impact the team? 10 more goals?  20 more goals?  I think we led the league in 1 goal losses. Freaking guy took one penalty all year. What a joke. I watch Vegas and wonder where O'Reilly fits with that group.  Also he was trash the 2 games I saw in Buffalo this year, terrible passing through the neutral zone like he didn't gaf.  Show me one guy on Las Vegas who doesn't gaf.  At this point I'd do O'Reilly for Tuch straight up.  I know C vs RW but still. 

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Right and if Oreilly being an emo is the problem, then goodbye.  Up thread does a nice job detailing his value stats wise, but let's say he's instead a leader with contagious energy and a positive attitude, how does that impact the team? 10 more goals?  20 more goals?  I think we led the league in 1 goal losses. Freaking guy took one penalty all year. What a joke. I watch Vegas and wonder where O'Reilly fits with that group.  Also he was trash the 2 games I saw in Buffalo this year, terrible passing through the neutral zone like he didn't gaf.  Show me one guy on Las Vegas who doesn't gaf.  At this point I'd do O'Reilly for Tuch straight up.  I know C vs RW but still. 

 

Far too emotional evaluation.

 

There are guys in Vegas who gaffe.  There are guys everywhere who do it.

 

If ROR is the problem, he will be moved.  However, he's a critical piece of the pie for any team.  He's supremely talented.  As I see it, for ROR to move another team is going to have to give up the house or take on Bogosian's salary and I don't know that the Sabres need to clear his numbers from the books right now.

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Actually, we skipped spring here. Went straight from winter on April 30th to Summer on May 1st.

 

Uh, that's nothing compared to what goes on in the Bills forum....

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Freidman mentioned the only 3 real trade pieces we have now that Kane is gone.  The problem is we can't replace any of them and I find it hard to imagine what we'd get back in trade that would improve another area so much as the team would be net better by the trade.  

 

Lets examine the trade candidates

1) ROR - sad comments aside, the guy actually had one of his best pts years playing the 2nd center, with hard minutes on a terrible team.  We have no decent or proven centers in the organization behind him and Jack.  The Samson at center experiment failed and Casey is much to raw.  I can't see a team trading us their 2nd line center for ours and we coming out better for the experience since ROR is also the best faceoff guy in the NHL.   We could trade ROR for a top 4 D, but then we'd have to trade Risto to someone for a replacement.  That seems like making moves just to make moves.

2) Ristolainen - It may be true that he has had a bad attitude at times.  He has an ego and has been carrying the D load for this team for three years with very little help.  I'd be annoyed also.  Scandella is the first step in the right direction and Dahlin will be step two.  Dahlin however isn't ready to carry first line minutes but should be able to lessen some of the load on Risto.  So lets trade him now just when the group is rounding out because he doesn't listen all the time.  That makes no sense.  The best playoff teams are deep on defense.  We have 3 maybe 4 with McCabe.  So lets ship out our best current D and replace him with ...........? Nelson? Guhle? Who?  If you trade him, you'll have to make another move to replace him.  At that point it's just musical chairs.

3) Reinhart is the most easily traded of the three, but we have no other proven wingers in the organization except Okposo and he is 30 and coming off his worst NHL season.  The kid is under our control for another few years and finally showed signs of reaching his potential. So again why trade him now?  The only reason I'd even consider moving him is for a top 4 D of similar age that this is already lock up on a decent contract.  Some like Ristolainen for example.  

 

It just seems to me that is this one of the few occasions to show some patience. Keep the core, add Casey and Dahlin, but cleanout the under brush.  After Dahlin, Casey, Jack, Sam, Risto, Scandella and ROR, put anyone and everyone of the market and see what is available that may improve the team.  If you come up with another miracle package deal to get another Scandella by all means.  

 

We also need to look at what Colorado did.  Sakic found three contributors on waivers and made cheap value acquisitions for guys like Wilson and Yakupov.  

 

I also recommend giving many of glut of youngish forwards we have a legit shot.  We have nothing to loose with trying O'Regan, Baptiste, Bailey, Fasching, ERod, WIlson, Olofsson even Nylander.  We need to find out if they are NHL players and they need an opportunity to prove it.  They can't be worse the crap we fielded in our bottom 6 this season.

 

Good post. Agree totally with this assessment. Unless one of these guys is cancer in our locker room I don't see why we move any of this core.

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Good post. Agree totally with this assessment. Unless one of these guys is cancer in our locker room I don't see why we move any of this core.

Thanks. I think any locker room issues right now are frustrations with losing. These guys are competitors and have never been losers until now. They also know that our roster was a joke. They are desperate for Jbot to do his job and fix the roster.

 

One great sign is none of core players really packed it in last season. Reinhart had his best season and was our best player for mich of the 2nd half. Jack had his best year crossing 25 goals and 60 pts for the first time and nearly averaging a pt a game. ROR had his 2nd highest gl and pt season and lead the NHL in Faceoff % and wins. Risto has his 3rd straight 40 pt season, the first Sabre to do that since Soupy. The difference is Soupy did when he was 28, Risto is 23.

 

Build out the depth and get decent goaltending and we’ll be a playoff team as early as next season.

 

One player who could be available if TB doesn’t want to keep him for big money is JT Miller. The guy had his first 50+ pt season and plays any forward position. He really took off playing for TB and he’d look great on Jack’s wing. He’d be expensive to sign amd TB won’t give him away, but it would be worth kicking the tires.

Edited by GASabresIUFAN

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Flagg and I were thinking Thornton at one point too and then someone reminded us he was so bad at leading they stripped him of the captaincy in SJ and immediately after they went to the Cup Finals. Not a great indictment of what we need/want

:)

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Far too emotional evaluation.

 

There are guys in Vegas who gaffe.  There are guys everywhere who do it.

 

If ROR is the problem, he will be moved.  However, he's a critical piece of the pie for any team.  He's supremely talented.  As I see it, for ROR to move another team is going to have to give up the house or take on Bogosian's salary and I don't know that the Sabres need to clear his numbers from the books right now.

Bourbon induced post with a touch of homer re: Tuch, but with the numerous "i'm just skating around there" comments, I think at this point he's proven he's not a leader nor a critical piece. Instead he's pulling down his team with his mopey attitude, despite the talent / decent production.  Hopefully JBot can leverage the data and get a good return, but won't be shocked if it's underwhelming.

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Bourbon induced post with a touch of homer re: Tuch, but with the numerous "i'm just skating around there" comments, I think at this point he's proven he's not a leader nor a critical piece. Instead he's pulling down his team with his mopey attitude, despite the talent / decent production.  Hopefully JBot can leverage the data and get a good return, but won't be shocked if it's underwhelming.

 

So, is the "mopey" attitude based solely on his locker clean out presser?  I don't think he's an overly outspoken guy.

 

I have however seen him play irritated and put the team on his back at times.  That's good enough for me.

 

Oh.. and you get a pass (just a bit) for being under bourbon influence.  :)

Edited by LTS

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Freidman mentioned the only 3 real trade pieces we have now that Kane is gone. The problem is we can't replace any of them and I find it hard to imagine what we'd get back in trade that would improve another area so much as the team would be net better by the trade.

 

Lets examine the trade candidates

1) ROR - sad comments aside, the guy actually had one of his best pts years playing the 2nd center, with hard minutes on a terrible team. We have no decent or proven centers in the organization behind him and Jack. The Samson at center experiment failed and Casey is much to raw. I can't see a team trading us their 2nd line center for ours and we coming out better for the experience since ROR is also the best faceoff guy in the NHL. We could trade ROR for a top 4 D, but then we'd have to trade Risto to someone for a replacement. That seems like making moves just to make moves.

2) Ristolainen - It may be true that he has had a bad attitude at times. He has an ego and has been carrying the D load for this team for three years with very little help. I'd be annoyed also. Scandella is the first step in the right direction and Dahlin will be step two. Dahlin however isn't ready to carry first line minutes but should be able to lessen some of the load on Risto. So lets trade him now just when the group is rounding out because he doesn't listen all the time. That makes no sense. The best playoff teams are deep on defense. We have 3 maybe 4 with McCabe. So lets ship out our best current D and replace him with ...........? Nelson? Guhle? Who? If you trade him, you'll have to make another move to replace him. At that point it's just musical chairs.

3) Reinhart is the most easily traded of the three, but we have no other proven wingers in the organization except Okposo and he is 30 and coming off his worst NHL season. The kid is under our control for another few years and finally showed signs of reaching his potential. So again why trade him now? The only reason I'd even consider moving him is for a top 4 D of similar age that this is already lock up on a decent contract. Some like Ristolainen for example.

 

It just seems to me that is this one of the few occasions to show some patience. Keep the core, add Casey and Dahlin, but cleanout the under brush. After Dahlin, Casey, Jack, Sam, Risto, Scandella and ROR, put anyone and everyone of the market and see what is available that may improve the team. If you come up with another miracle package deal to get another Scandella by all means.

 

We also need to look at what Colorado did. Sakic found three contributors on waivers and made cheap value acquisitions for guys like Wilson and Yakupov.

 

I also recommend giving many of glut of youngish forwards we have a legit shot. We have nothing to loose with trying O'Regan, Baptiste, Bailey, Fasching, ERod, WIlson, Olofsson even Nylander. We need to find out if they are NHL players and they need an opportunity to prove it. They can't be worse the crap we fielded in our bottom 6 this season.

Not sure how to highlight certain parts of your post, but if I could I would highlight the "best playoff teams are deep on defense"

 

Last 2 seasons Pittsburgh won the cup, so best playoff team, with arguably the weakest blue line of any playoff team. Not saying it's a proven recipe by any means, but when was the last time a team went back to back cups? A weak blue line can be helped by an incredible offense. A weak offense can be hidden behind a strong defense.

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Not sure how to highlight certain parts of your post, but if I could I would highlight the "best playoff teams are deep on defense"

 

Last 2 seasons Pittsburgh won the cup, so best playoff team, with arguably the weakest blue line of any playoff team. Not saying it's a proven recipe by any means, but when was the last time a team went back to back cups? A weak blue line can be helped by an incredible offense. A weak offense can be hidden behind a strong defense.

True, but their top 4 is top notch.  Letang, Schultz, Dumoulin, and Maata make up an excellent top 2 pairs. Hainey, Cole and Daley played solidly for them in the playoffs and they survived Letang's injury with veteran depth and a fantastic offense.

 

This year those same 4 carried the load and 4 others played 40+ games in the 5 & 6th slots including former Sabres Chad Ruhwedel.

 

This however kind of proves my point about depth and not moving out Risto.  With Risto we are 3/4 to a Pitt caliber top 4 (Scandella, Dahlin and Risto) without him we are still only 50% of the way there. 

 

as to the other contenders

WPG  - Byfuglien, Myers (who played 82 games this year w 36 pts), Morrissey and Trouba, with vets Enstrom, Kulikov, and Chiarot.

Nsh - Subban, Josi, Ekholm, Ellis plus depth of Emelin, and Irwin

LV - Breakout stars Colin Miller & Nate Schmidt, Shea Theodore, and Engelland, plus depth from our friend McNabb, Sbisa and others.

SJ - Burns (Their leading scorer), Braun, Vlasic and Dillon - Probably the worst group, but Burns is a great Franchise D

Wash - Carlson, Orlov, Niskanen, and Orpik with a bunch of kids for depth

TB - Hedman, Sergachev, Girardi, Stralman, Coburn, and a mix of vets and kids for added depth.

Bos - Krug, McAvoy, Charra, Miller, Grzelcyk, and Carlo - maybe the deepest top 6 of any playoff team

 

 

All these team feature a franchise D and excellent top 4s.  Some have greater depth but in the playoffs even with great Offenses like TB and Wpg you need a excellent top 4 D.

Edited by GASabresIUFAN

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