Ryan O'Reilly: "Stuck with the mindset of losing"

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

The first for Duchene was I believe 28th overall, combined with the prospect first. If Montreal gives their first, it's top 8 I believe. On that note....does the NHL draft have their version of a Jimmy Johnson draft value chart?

 

For me it's all timeline. With O'Reilly's age, cap hit and public admission of being mentally weak, I want to move on. In the mind of jbot, I wonder when he thinks we are ready to really contend. If the answer is 3 years or greater, I think you have to move on.

 

The only way I'd be okay with keeping him around is if the cap projected to grow dramatically. I don't think that's the case, even with Seattle joining.

[TheAud]

In a parallel universe Kane is traded in November for a late first, a fourth, and a 3rd liner with two years on his contract and Sabrespace howls that JBot got robbed as he should have waited until the deadline to maximize value amongst the throng of buyers.

[LGR4GM]

In a parallel universe Kane is traded in November for a late first, a fourth, and a 3rd liner with two years on his contract and Sabrespace howls that JBot got robbed as he should have waited until the deadline to maximize value amongst the throng of buyers.

Yup.

[Randall Flagg]

In a parallel universe Kane is traded in November for a late first, a fourth, and a 3rd liner with two years on his contract and Sabrespace howls that JBot got robbed as he should have waited until the deadline to maximize value amongst the throng of buyers.

+10000000

[PASabreFan]

+10000000

Of course that's hardly what Weave is envisioning.

[Weave]

In a parallel universe Kane is traded in November for a late first, a fourth, and a 3rd liner with two years on his contract and Sabrespace howls that JBot got robbed as he should have waited until the deadline to maximize value amongst the throng of buyers.

Feck that noise. There better be an equivalent player coming back, not lottery tickets.

Of course that's hardly what Weave is envisioning.

+100000000000 in a fancy color

 

Cool. The fancy color was automatic.

Edited April 14, 2018 by We've

[TrueBlueGED]

Can we stop assuming there was a roster player trade to be made if only Botterill would have moved Kane sooner? Hey may have mismanaged the whole thing, but given Kane's trade value around the leave was reported to be zero in the offseason, I don't think it's safe to assume there was a huge shift in that value based on one month of hockey.

Of course that's hardly what Weave is envisioning.

Of course, what We've is envisioning may not have ever been an option.

[Weave]

Can we stop assuming there was a roster player trade to be made if only Botterill would have moved Kane sooner? Hey may have mismanaged the whole thing, but given Kane's trade value around the leave was reported to be zero in the offseason, I don't think it's safe to assume there was a huge shift in that value based on one month of hockey.

 

Of course, what We've is envisioning may not have ever been an option.

 

I don't blame JBott for the crap we got for Kane.  He was late to the game and wanted to see what he had (although I think there can be fault to be found there). But I just can't believe that there wasn't a player for player trade that could have been made before his lame duck season.  Maybe not equal value in terms of points production, but proven NHL talent for sure.  Kane's too rare a player to not have that kind of value if he's got affordable term left. 

 

In a typical draft, how many Evander Kane level players get produced?  2? 3?  Hell, in Sam's draft year there won't even be one.

[TheAud]

Feck that noise. There better be an equivalent player coming back, not lottery tickets.

 

I don't blame JBott for the crap we got for Kane.  He was late to the game and wanted to see what he had (although I think there can be fault to be found there). But I just can't believe that there wasn't a player for player trade that could have been made before his lame duck season.  Maybe not equal value in terms of points production, but proven NHL talent for sure.  Kane's too rare a player to not have that kind of value if he's got affordable term left. 

 

In a typical draft, how many Evander Kane level players get produced?  2? 3?  Hell, in Sam's draft year there won't even be one.

 

So, when a team is in contention and wants to acquire a short term high talent level player why would they send back an equivalent player? The whole point is they are willing to sacrifice future assets for current value. I guess if you can find someone willing to trade you an injured veteran who you are counting on to come back the next year that might work. Sort of like how Buffalo got Kane in the first place. But those are rare. If you are a seller you are selling the present to buy the future to some extent. I hate that the team has been in this mode so many years in a row but it is what it is. 

 

As for Sam's draft, a cursory glance says right now I'd take at least 7 guys over Kane at any point in his career: Pasternak (25th overall), Draisatl, Arvidsson (4th round), Nylander, Ehlers,  Ekblad, and Point (3rd round). Then there's a bunch of guys that will likely end up being better than Kane over their career (Montour (2nd round), Kempe, Fiala, and maybe Sam himself) to name a few. I'm sure I missed some. 

 

I sure wish JBot had gotten more for Kane. But it's not like he was subjected to highway robbery for 6 frickin' weeks plus playoffs of a streaky, low assist, high penalty minute power forward. 

[Weave]

So, when a team is in contention and wants to acquire a short term high talent level player why would they send back an equivalent player? The whole point is they are willing to sacrifice future assets for current value. I guess if you can find someone willing to trade you an injured veteran who you are counting on to come back the next year that might work. Sort of like how Buffalo got Kane in the first place. But those are rare. If you are a seller you are selling the present to buy the future to some extent. I hate that the team has been in this mode so many years in a row but it is what it is. 

 

As for Sam's draft, a cursory glance says right now I'd take at least 7 guys over Kane at any point in his career: Pasternak (25th overall), Draisatl, Arvidsson (4th round), Nylander, Ehlers,  Ekblad, and Point (3rd round). Then there's a bunch of guys that will likely end up being better than Kane over their career (Montour (2nd round), Kempe, Fiala, and maybe Sam himself) to name a few. I'm sure I missed some. 

 

I sure wish JBot had gotten more for Kane. But it's not like he was subjected to highway robbery for 6 frickin' weeks plus playoffs of a streaky, low assist, high penalty minute power forward. 

 

Read the totality of the discussion.  My point isn't about THIS Kane trade.  It is about what could have been gotten for Kane had he been traded before he became a rental player, ie. first thing JBott does out of the box well before the season.  At that point we have an actual hockey trade and not a short term player being moved to a team that is trying to bulk up for the playoffs.

[darksabre]

Read the totality of the discussion. My point isn't about THIS Kane trade. It is about what could have been gotten for Kane had he been traded before he became a rental player, ie. first thing JBott does out of the box well before the season. At that point we have an actual hockey trade and not a short term player being moved to a team that is trying to bulk up for the playoffs.

And if the return had been less would you have been satisfied?

[Weave]

And if the return had been less would you have been satisfied?

 

Of course not.  If it is less, play out the season for the Sabres and entertain the fans.  At some point there is more value in icing the best team you can.  I think we were already straddling that point with what we received.

[darksabre]

Of course not. If it is less, play out the season for the Sabres and entertain the fans. At some point there is more value in icing the best team you can. I think we were already straddling that point with what we received.

So since we don't know that the offers for Kane were any better early in the season there's no use complaining about when he was traded, only that he was traded.

 

And there's no sense in complaining about him being traded because the biggest douche move Botterill could have pulled woukd have been keeping Kane here until the bitter end. He was going to free agency, and not being given a crack at being a rental on a playoff team would have certainly made him sour enough to never come back.

 

At least now he gets to go play meaningful hockey on a real team. Not trading him so that he could do that and then letting him walk in free agency just so Chet and Muffy could see him play 10 more games would have been stupid.

 

It's not like the Sabres got any worse after he left anyway.

 

Botterill is worried about the future. Kane wasn't going to be a part of that and this season didn't matter anymore. Move on.

[That Aud Smell]

Came here for ROR talk.

 

Found E. Kane, parallel universes, and angels on the head of a pin.

[Taro T]

Came here for ROR talk.

Found E. Kane, parallel universes, and angels on the head of a pin.

Missed that one. How many did we come up w/? 7?

[Robviously]

Missed that one. How many did we come up w/? 7?

Your an idiot. It's 8!!!

[Taro T]

Your an idiot. It's 8!!!

My. That escalated quickly.

[Sabel79]

Your an idiot. It's 8!!!

*You're

[bunomatic]

*You're

lol.