Forwards Next Year - Status Quo or Major Overhaul?

[GASabresIUFAN]

What bias?  The facts speak for themselves.  No one has given him more than a 1-year deal, and no one that has had him at the end of a contract has given him an extension. 

You have no idea what kind of contracts he was offered and by whom.  You have no idea what kind of situation Vanek has been looking for and considering the team's he has signed with, he has likely has been looking for a top 6 role.  At 33 it's unlikely he was getting multi years deals to be a top 6 player.  Also given contenders cap situations, Vanek has been an effective trade deadline acquisition each of the last two years. 

[erickompositör72]

I talked to someone in the business about this. It seems that he frustrates the hell out of coaches/scouts/GM's because he just floats (and perhaps isn't exactly a 2-way force; just a guess, I haven't watch him lately)

 

The fact is, though, whether he's a "golden boy" or not, whether he plays the game "the right way" or not, he puts the puck in the net. Period.

[PerreaultForever]

Really guys Vanek on the wish list??? What's next, coaxing Briere out of retirement? 

[North Buffalo]

Really guys Vanek on the wish list??? What's next, coaxing Briere out of retirement? 

Sorry but Vanek got a Hattie last night.  You really don't want him?  His mitts are still sick...

[nfreeman]

And I find that interesting. They production has been there. We've never heard a word about him being a bad locker room guy. Maybe it is just an age thing? Noone wants to commit to more than a year because they expect the drop off is imminent?

I think 2 winter olympics ago, his coach openly slammed him in the media. I don’t remember the exact quotes, but it had to do with attitude, work ethic, etc.

You have no idea what kind of contracts he was offered and by whom. You have no idea what kind of situation Vanek has been looking for and considering the team's he has signed with, he has likely has been looking for a top 6 role. At 33 it's unlikely he was getting multi years deals to be a top 6 player. Also given contenders cap situations, Vanek has been an effective trade deadline acquisition each of the last two years.

The trade deadline acquisition point is not responsive to my point or relevant to the question of whether the Sabres should bring him in.

 

You are right that we can’t know what he’s been offered or what his priorities have been. But do you not think if one of his teams wanted to keep him, it would’ve happened by now? Or that if someone offered him a good multi-year deal, he would’ve taken it? He’s become a vagabond.

[Randall Flagg]

You have no idea what kind of contracts he was offered and by whom.  You have no idea what kind of situation Vanek has been looking for and considering the team's he has signed with, he has likely has been looking for a top 6 role.  At 33 it's unlikely he was getting multi years deals to be a top 6 player.  Also given contenders cap situations, Vanek has been an effective trade deadline acquisition each of the last two years. 

But you know what Botterill was offered for Kane and when he was offered it, right? :P 

[nfreeman]

 

That just happened.

[dudacek]

One could argue he was a much better option than any of the other old and slow guys we’ve acquired, but as far as next year goes, Vanek just doesn’t fit on a team trying to get faster.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I think 2 winter olympics ago, his coach openly slammed him in the media. I don’t remember the exact quotes, but it had to do with attitude, work ethic, etc.

 

The trade deadline acquisition point is not responsive to my point or relevant to the question of whether the Sabres should bring him in.

 

You are right that we can’t know what he’s been offered or what his priorities have been. But do you not think if one of his teams wanted to keep him, it would’ve happened by now? Or that if someone offered him a good multi-year deal, he would’ve taken it? He’s become a vagabond.

 

He has indeed, like so many guys before him.  Stempniak comes to mind.  Also you were questioning whether or not teams are even interested in his services.  I think having two teams willing to acquire him at the deadline shows that his services are in demand.  As to the Sabres, given our lack of ability to score, anyone who can still score 20+ in the NHL should be looked at.  I think he'd fit in well for next season on a line with ROR and Sam.  

But you know what Botterill was offered for Kane and when he was offered it, right? :P

Who said they knew what Jbot was offering Kane?  

 

One could argue he was a much better option than any of the other old and slow guys we’ve acquired, but as far as next year goes, Vanek just doesn’t fit on a team trying to get faster.

I agree on the team trying to get faster, but he would fit on a line with Sam and ROR.

[Randall Flagg]

 

Who said they knew what Jbot was offering Kane?  

 

You based several furious rants, and even a new thread IIRC, off of that assumption no matter how many times people tried to tell you that there's no evidence that better offers were out there earlier, because reports all along were that nobody got interested in a Kane trade until the deadline, and that the Sharks offer was the only serious one we got.

[GASabresIUFAN]

You based several furious rants, and even a new thread IIRC, off of that assumption no matter how many times people tried to tell you that there's no evidence that better offers were out there earlier, because reports all along were that nobody got interested in a Kane trade until the deadline, and that the Sharks offer was the only serious one we got.

I thought you meant contract offers. I still don't believe self serving comments by GM's. However Jbot getting Borgen and Casey under contract has redeemed himself for his failure with Kane.

Edited March 29, 2018 by GASabresIUFAN

[sweetlou]

Team speed is still a need, but having one player that trails the play is not bad.  Having a player like Vanek that fills in the slot after the initial rush could be a great fir for a guy like Mittelstadt on the third line.  As long as you have another winger that can rush up the ice with him.

 

ERod- Eichel- Okposo

Wilson- ROR- Reinhart

Vanek- Mittelstadt- Baptiste

Girgensons- Larsson- Bailey/Pommer

 

I still think they should see what the can get for Girgensons or Larsson this off season.  each are in last year of contract and don't see them sticking with Buffalo after next season if they are still here.

 

Will Pommers and or Moulson be bought out?

 

I still think the Sabres regime is looking at next year being a learning year, hopefully finishing around .500, and really building for 19/20 to be the year they make the playoffs.

 

I also don't think there is immediate help in the pipeline and we are a couple development years away from seeing Nylander, Pu, Fasching making the big club.

[darksabre]

Anyone who doesn't want Vanek on this team is wrong.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Anyone who doesn't want Vanek on this team is wrong.

 

Yup.  No room for a 25g and 30a guy on this team.  Sour puss and all.

[Sabre fan]

Sabres really need Nylander to make the team out of training camp next season. It is vitally important that he warrant the high pick we used to get him. We already have wasted far too many high 1st round picks on stiffs and need him to come through and become the scorer the team needs him to be

[Weave]

Sabres really need Nylander to make the team out of training camp next season. It is vitally important that he warrant the high pick we used to get him. We already have wasted far too many high 1st round picks on stiffs and need him to come through and become the scorer the team needs him to be

He ain’t making the team next season.

[erickompositör72]

He ain’t making the team next season.

 

Remember how Reinhart suddenly clicked? I think that's what we're hoping for for Nylander. It's not unprecedented, and we're due, aren't we?  ;)

[Weave]

Remember how Reinhart suddenly clicked? I think that's what we're hoping for for Nylander. It's not unprecedented, and we're due, aren't we? ;)

He didn’t suddenly click though. He reverted back to the performance he showed in year 2. Nylander needs a bigger click than that.

[erickompositör72]

He didn’t suddenly click though. He reverted back to the performance he showed in year 2. Nylander needs a bigger click than that.

 

I hear you, and I agree that Nylander needs a bigger click. Perhaps 2 clicks- one to get to NHL level, and another to get to the level we hope is his ceiling.

 

Although with Reinhart, I disagree. I don't think he ever showed such strength on the puck and willingness to control the flow/pace of play as he did starting in '18.

[Randall Flagg]

I hear you, and I agree that Nylander needs a bigger click. Perhaps 2 clicks- one to get to NHL level, and another to get to the level we hope is his ceiling.

 

Although with Reinhart, I disagree. I don't think he ever showed such strength on the puck and willingness to control the flow/pace of play as he did starting in '18.

I would argue one click for being a consistent AHL player, another for being a legitimately good AHL player that deserves a callup, another click to be called an NHL regular, and then another click to be a good NHL player. 

 

In my experience watching, a prospect at the end of his second post draft season probably has 2 clicks left, and 3 if they're lucky and put in a ton of work on top of the other two. 

[erickompositör72]

I would argue one click for being a consistent AHL player, another for being a legitimately good AHL player that deserves a callup, another click to be called an NHL regular, and then another click to be a good NHL player. 

 

In my experience watching, a prospect at the end of his second post draft season probably has 2 clicks left, and 3 if they're lucky and put in a ###### ton of work on top of the other two. 

 

Maybe Casey can bless him to expedite the process

[Drunkard]

Maybe Casey can bless him to expedite the process

I like it. Bless us all, Lord Casey!

[Doohickie]

Here is what Jbot will probably do.  Re-sign Sam,  Wlison, Baptiste and Bailey to go with Casey, Jack, ROR, EROD, KO and Girgensons, Larsson and Pommers.  AKA The Status Quo...

 

I don't know... there's something to be said for the status quo.  The Sabres definitely showed some signs of life in the second half and part of that has to do with Phil's system taking hold.  I agree that we should update our forward lines, but if you're replacing a JAG with a JAG, you're spinning your wheels and sinking deeper into the mud.  You don't replace Benoit Pouliot with Luke Glendening, for instance.  You might say Glendening has more speed, but their output is about the same; given that I stay with the guy that's already learned to play HCPH's system.  Change for the sake of improvement?  Yeah.  Change for the sake of change?  Not so much.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Anordning

[GASabresIUFAN]

I don't know... there's something to be said for the status quo.  The Sabres definitely showed some signs of life in the second half and part of that has to do with Phil's system taking hold.  I agree that we should update our forward lines, but if you're replacing a JAG with a JAG, you're spinning your wheels and sinking deeper into the mud.  You don't replace Benoit Pouliot with Luke Glendening, for instance.  You might say Glendening has more speed, but their output is about the same; given that I stay with the guy that's already learned to play HCPH's system.  Change for the sake of improvement?  Yeah.  Change for the sake of change?  Not so much.

The problem is the status quo just isn't good enough to propel the team forward.  I am convinced that while Baptiste and Bailey may develop into full time NHL players, the most they will ever be is two JAGs.  On the positive front, I'd rather have JAGs that come from our pipeline vs FAs like Josefson and Pouliot.  However, we need upgrades on the forwards beyond Casey and whomever we draft this year.

[Weave]

I don't know... there's something to be said for the status quo.  The Sabres definitely showed some signs of life in the second half and part of that has to do with Phil's system taking hold.  I agree that we should update our forward lines, but if you're replacing a JAG with a JAG, you're spinning your wheels and sinking deeper into the mud.  You don't replace Benoit Pouliot with Luke Glendening, for instance.  You might say Glendening has more speed, but their output is about the same; given that I stay with the guy that's already learned to play HCPH's system.  Change for the sake of improvement?  Yeah.  Change for the sake of change?  Not so much.

 

I'll be happy with similar production but they actually show up prepared to play the game plan consistently.  That ain't happening with status quo.