Buffalo Bills 2018-2019

[That Aud Smell]

Just now, ... said:

Yes, we had this discussion before.  I don't necessarily disagree with it.  However, the "white" word has been injected into this, again, here on the board.  It's an ugly charge and the implication goes beyond the implied religious bias.  

Hey - if the shoe fits.

[nfreeman]

8 minutes ago, SwampD said:

It's not what I am saying. It's what they have said.

This is not even close to being true.

[Wyldnwoody44]

57 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Please explain

The culture of the NFL, the amount of actual criminal cases, etc, and the actions of many of the players. I want my professionals to be role models, it is not what we have in the game today. 

[nfreeman]

2 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Hey - if the shoe fits.

That's an "if" that swallows the entire issue.

[WildCard]

5 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

The culture of the NFL, the amount of actual criminal cases, etc, and the actions of many of the players. I want my professionals to be role models, it is not what we have in the game today. 

There are plenty of role models in the NFL and in life to choose from. The NFL, or any sport, will never be full of squeaky clean people. If you want a billion dollar industry to be pumping out all star citizens, I don't care where you look, you're not gonna find it

Edited October 15, 2018 by WildCard

[SwampD]

3 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

This is not even close to being true.

Not the white part. The other is very close to being true.

[That Aud Smell]

8 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

I want my professionals to be role models

You do?

Huh.

8 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

That's an "if" that swallows the entire issue.

It's in line with what I see.

I am aware that we disagree on the issue.

[TrueBlueGED]

Can we go back to people chest-thumping about Allen after preseason game #2, or the ball washing of Doug Marrone? These are opinions that need to be re-visited! 

[nfreeman]

5 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

It's in line with what I see.

 

I am aware that we disagree on the issue.

What do you see that is in line with racist behavior?  Do the Bills have fewer black players than other teams?  Has anyone associated with the Bills made racist statements or committed racist actions?

Is there anything tangible whatsoever to support this accusation?

Or are you just so put off by McD's open religiousness that you are willing to free-associate your way into assumptions regarding awful character flaws that must be animating their decisions?

[Hoss]

30 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

The culture of the NFL, the amount of actual criminal cases, etc, and the actions of many of the players. I want my professionals to be role models, it is not what we have in the game today. 

I don’t think the culture in the NFL is all that bad when compared to other sports. There are WAY more players in the NFL compared to the other major leagues in this country so you’re bound to have more bad apples but the percentage likely isn’t that far off from the norm.

There are also incredible role models in and around the NFL. JJ Watt, Colin Kaepernick, Larry Fitzgerald, Curtis Martin, Drew Brees, Warrick Dunn and others are borderline ideal role models. Those were named that came up just as I typed without stopping and I could list 20 more off the top of my head.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Hoss

[That Aud Smell]

8 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

What do you see that is in line with racist behavior?  Do the Bills have fewer black players than other teams?  Has anyone associated with the Bills made racist statements or committed racist actions?

Is there anything tangible whatsoever to support this accusation?

Or are you just so put off by McD's open religiousness that you are willing to free-associate your way into assumptions regarding awful character flaws that must be animating their decisions?

I don't think that McDermott harbors a single conscious bias against non-white players.

I also think there's a mirrored reflection of sorts that he sees in a guy like Peterman that, perhaps subconsciously, leads him to have a deeply flawed assessment of that player's abilities.

[That Aud Smell]

Also, I have zero problems with people being openly religious. By way of example, I get together from time to time for coffee or a beer with a guy who almost always wears his Franciscan habit in public. Can't get anymore open than that. 

My issue with McDermott's brand of religion is not about how open he is about it. 

[WildCard]

4 minutes ago, Hoss said:

There are also incredible role models in and around the NFL. JJ Watt, Colin Kaepernick, Larry Fitzgerald, Curtis Martin, Drew Brees, Warrick Dunn and others are borderline ideal role models. Those were named that came up just as I typed without stopping and I could list 20 more off the top of my head.

One of these things is not like the other. Ol' Larry Fitz has some skeletons in his closet 

[PASabreFan]

If there's a religious bias surrounding the team, is the genesis of it McDermott? Or is McDermott just more evidence of it?

[Wyldnwoody44]

31 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

You do?

Huh

When you're on television and making millions to play a game, yes, I expect that. I'm not quite sure what this comment is supposed to mean.... Is it a shot at me? 

 

 

As for the rest of this thread, oh boy... I guess overall, I have just simply lost the love of the game, if the bills didn't exist, I wouldn't watch any NFL. 

[PASabreFan]

12 hours ago, Neo said:

I'm glad Peterman's a white, Christian, man.   That way, it's easy to be condescending without evidence or personal risk.  I mean, it's much easier than the tiresome concepts tolerance, respect, graciousness and critical thinking.  Hell, the stuff practically writes itself!  The low hanging fruit of anonymous internet vitriol.  Speaking thereof, anyone seen Flag?

Right out of the LTS playbook. Take the high ground, then wallow in the mud by the sixth sentence. Randall, vitriol? Maybe he's had a moment or two like we all have, but he's hardly someone I would point to as "the worst of the Internet." Go check out some comment sections.

[PASabreFan]

12 hours ago, nfreeman said:

What is this based on?  Was he not religious before joining the Bills?

Maybe he knows he's been embarrassed on TV for the 3rd time in front of everyone he knows and he's at the end of his lifelong dream, and he's taking comfort where he believes he should.

Do you think everyone who professes religious beliefs is some kind of hustler?

Everyone? Of course not. But those who do it in the workplace when they know their boss/es share their religious belief should be looked at suspiciously. Would you have a problem with a Muslim sales manager saying something like that in the company newsletter after a particularly bad quarter, when the bosses are Muslim?

[Hank]

I may have been Petermans biggest supporter. I was wrong. He is really bad. 

If a professional athlete is your kids role model, you've failed as a parent. 

Implying McDermott is a racist makes you look like a huge piece of schit of a human being. 

 

[nfreeman]

15 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Everyone? Of course not. But those who do it in the workplace when they know their boss/es share their religious belief should be looked at suspiciously. Would you have a problem with a Muslim sales manager saying something like that in the company newsletter after a particularly bad quarter, when the bosses are Muslim? 

As I mentioned, I think it's suspicious if someone appears to adopt religion at the same time he takes a new job where the boss is religious.  If he was already openly religious before taking the job -- then I don't think it's suspicious. 

It's probably worth a bit of looking into before deploying the smear.

[nfreeman]

40 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I also think there's a mirrored reflection of sorts that he sees in a guy like Peterman that, perhaps subconsciously, leads him to have a deeply flawed assessment of that player's abilities. 

So McD is more inclined to accept poor performance in white players than in black players?

Again:  any empirical data to support this?  Any anecdotal data (other than Peterman's ongoing employment, of course, which I agree is evidence of a flaw, but a different flaw than the one you've suggested)?  Anything a-tall other than "my gut tells me he's subconsciously biased in favor of white people?"

[PASabreFan]

17 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

As I mentioned, I think it's suspicious if someone appears to adopt religion at the same time he takes a new job where the boss is religious.  If he was already openly religious before taking the job -- then I don't think it's suspicious. 

It's probably worth a bit of looking into before deploying the smear.

I don't agree that the before/after is important, so there's nothing to look into. I think Nathan knows the lay of the land in Buffalo and is using it to his advantage. He's smart for doing it. Hardly a smear.

You've overlooked the issue of whether it's appropriate behavior in any workplace. Would it be OK where you work?

[shrader]

56 minutes ago, WildCard said:

One of these things is not like the other. Ol' Larry Fitz has some skeletons in his closet 

And without getting into what draws the most attention for Kaepernick, I'd have to imagine that cuban-americans are probably still not all that crazy about him.

[That Aud Smell]

40 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

When you're on television and making millions to play a game, yes, I expect that. I'm not quite sure what this comment is supposed to mean.... Is it a shot at me? 

No need to take it that way. I was just genuinely, like, ... really? 

I have a tipping point with not wanting to see a player compete because they've done bad stuff -- but, in general, I harbor no need at all for pro athletes to be role models.

24 minutes ago, Hank said:

Implying McDermott is a racist makes you look like a huge piece of schit of a human being. 

8 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

So McD is more inclined to accept poor performance in white players than in black players?

As it so happens, that's a neat explanation for why Tyrod was let go.

11 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Again:  any empirical data to support this?  Any anecdotal data (other than Peterman's ongoing employment, of course, which I agree is evidence of a flaw, but a different flaw than the one you've suggested)?  Anything a-tall other than "my gut tells me he's subconsciously biased in favor of white people?"

I don't have the time or energy, or probably the acumen, to do a deep dive on "empirical data" -- whatever that would be in this instance.

As for some other anecdotal data: What the hell is Pat DiMarco doing on this roster?

Given the world we live in, it's perplexing to me that people would be all up in arms about the suggestion that someone might harbor some unacknowledged racial biases. (Not for nothing: I know I got 'em!) Then again, perhaps it is not really perplexing at all. 

[SwampD]

24 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

So McD is more inclined to accept poor performance in white players than in black players?

Again:  any empirical data to support this?  Any anecdotal data (other than Peterman's ongoing employment, of course, which I agree is evidence of a flaw, but a different flaw than the one you've suggested)?  Anything a-tall other than "my gut tells me he's subconsciously biased in favor of white people?"

Well, they did send TT packin'.

?

[nfreeman]

Just now, PASabreFan said:

I don't agree that the before/after is important, so there's nothing to look into. I think Nathan knows the lay of the land in Buffalo and is using it to his advantage. He's smart for doing it. Hardly a smear. 

You've overlooked the issue of whether it's appropriate behavior in any workplace. Would it be OK where you work? 

You're accusing him of exploiting his boss' religious beliefs for personal gain.  Of course it's a smear.

What do you know about Nathan that makes you think he is doing this?

As for the question of whether it's appropriate in a workplace -- a bit of unpacking is needed.  No one is interviewing employees at my workplace (or at most others) about their failures, so there isn't the opportunity for an employee who has made a series of blunders to openly seek comfort in religion. 

I suppose if someone at my office made a major blunder, and I confronted that person about it, and he/she said something like "I know I screwed up but I'm not going to jump off a bridge -- I have faith in God and my faith helps me understand that even though my work here is poor, it's also not the sum total of who I am" -- I don't think I would be terribly put off by that response (and frankly would be glad that the person wasn't going to jump off a bridge), although it wouldn't make me any less inclined to be in favor of firing that person.

Just now, SwampD said:

Well, they did send TT packin'.

?

Yes, but it would've cost them something like $18MM - $20MM for them to keep TT.