Fire Phil Fan Club

[Weave]

Purgatory is a halfway house between heaven and hell. We are firmly, entrenched deep within the circles of hell.

 

It is a reference to Eleven's belief that we didn't recognize what we had with Ryan Miller and would go through a long period of lamentation when he was gone.

 

He wasn't wrong.

[Jacque Richard]

No ruff when the Gm is twenty years younger.

[bob_sauve28]

It doesn’t matter who is the head coach, their so lost in losing as a franchise.

I just don't get some of the decisions. I asked in the game thread f we were on the tank. If they were really trying to win I don't think Guhle and Ullmark would still be in AHL as they seem clearly better than Nelson and Lehner. If the players sense a tank is on I would suppose that feeling works on the players.

 

And I thought Georges was terrible yesterday.

[woods-racer]

I'm starting to put more merit into the idea that Phil and JBot went into this together, thinking: let's just throw 'em into the deep end and let 'em sink. Maybe Phil has a really convincing breakdown of his theoretical system, and knows his X's & O's, and Botterill is a believer. JBot then got excited about building a team around that philosophy, and wanted to see every player completely exposed, to know what work he has to do. Kind of like an audition year for the whole ###### team.

 

It would make sense, especially if they trust one another as a tandem, and don't feel any of the "win now" pressure. Maybe they got the "OK" to play the long game. It would be fantastic if GMBot really unlocked the secret to NHL success in building through the farm team.

 

If this is phase 1, I think Housley gets a full shot at going through phase 2, which will probably be next season. Maybe Botterill is actually more focused on who is going to replace the Roch call-ups next year, rather than who is going to be the key UFA signing or blockbuster trade.

 

 

 

I see this also. No coach wanting this job said *I can turn this squad around in one year*. They had to ask JB his time frame on securing a good roster and there had to be some back-n-forth on what type of players each envisioned having. 

 

I think we are seeing Rochester players getting a look see by Housley and  JB then sent back down with a note on what to work on. 

 

Phil is here for the first year will a great big *get out of jail free pass*, and rightfully so. He and JB will need to see an improved team next season or their seats will be getting warm.

[PASabreFan]

Other than CT in ROC, are there any good replacements available?

 

I hope there is a bigger plan between JB and PH because I cannot take too many more games like yesterday. I genuinely only tune in to watch Jack Eichel and his quest to become a ppg player. That is it. This "team" stinks and any rational fan would not waste their time and money right now. Unfortunately I'm not rational and thus I suffer.

Well, that's a the question. Who's out there who's better than Phil? Names please!

[LGR4GM]

It is a reference to Eleven's belief that we didn't recognize what we had with Ryan Miller and would go through a long period of lamentation when he was gone.

 

He wasn't wrong.

Linus Ullmark.

 

It's very obvious that this year was a building year. Jack Eichel in particular is much better. I wish they would work on Reinhart and Nylander more. I really hope Botterill does have a master plan or we're truly lost.

[eman]

Well, that's a the question. Who's out there who's better than Phil? Names please!

 

I vote for Julien! (we passed on him once and he should be available after this season with a Habs housecleaning) The Habs went south when Subban was dealt. The Preds won that deal hands down and PK kept the locker room light and fun. He is greatly missed and Bergevin screwed himself and most likely sealed his and Juliens fate. There will be detractors on Julien I know but I am more then willing to give him the chance here. I don't think he could do any worse. 

 

Price isn't the same since his injury and now his best buddy got dealt. weber is not the Weber of old as his body is breaking down. This is a depressed group.

 

Bring me the head of Claude Julien please! Hey, where is Michel Therrien while we're asking? 

[dudacek]

I think they have worked a ton on Reinhart trying to improve his battle and his pace.

They’ve forced him to do things he’s not particularly good at in an attempt to grow his game.

It’s hurt him in the short run to the point where I’m one of the few on here who still thinks it can be a very good NHL player.

Hopefully there are long term benefits. There’s a fine line between growth and trying to turn someone into something he’s not.

Linus Ullmark.

It's very obvious that this year was a building year. Jack Eichel in particular is much better. I wish they would work on Reinhart and Nylander more. I really hope Botterill does have a master plan or we're truly lost.

[Gramps]

I think they have worked a ton on Reinhart trying to improve his battle and his pace.

They’ve forced him to do things he’s not particularly good at in an attempt to grow his game.

It’s hurt him in the short run to the point where I’m one of the few on here who still thinks it can be a very good NHL player.

Hopefully there are long term benefits. There’s a fine line between growth and trying to turn someone into something he’s not.

 

What are the things Sam is good at other than camping out 2 feet from the net and tipping in rebounds ? 

[Drunkard]

What are the things Sam is good at other than camping out 2 feet from the net and tipping in rebounds ?

I'm not a Reinhart apologist even though I'd prefer to keep him rather than trade him for pennies on the dollar but he's also one of the few people on this roster who can make a tape to tape pass.

 

He hasn't measured up to the expectations of a second overall pick but he's still cheap and should remain so for several more years. I think he's a passenger not a driver but as the talent improves around him he should be able to improve or at the very least get back to his production level of his first 2 seasons.

[dudacek]

What are the things Sam is good at other than camping out 2 feet from the net and tipping in rebounds ?

 

Nothing. He’s a terrible hockey player and will be out of the league in two years.

[LGR4GM]

Nothing. He’s a terrible hockey player and will be out of the league in two years.

Lol, sarcasm?

[Flatlander]

Firing Phil Housley after 1 season is not going to turn the team around. More likely than not, it will just keep the team where it's at. No matter who they hired, it was going to take some time to get used to a new system. I don't think the team could take any kind of slow start. Being resigned to another losing season just took all the passion away. 

[pi2000]

I'm starting to put more merit into the idea that Phil and JBot went into this together, thinking: let's just throw 'em into the deep end and let 'em sink. Maybe Phil has a really convincing breakdown of his theoretical system, and knows his X's & O's, and Botterill is a believer. JBot then got excited about building a team around that philosophy, and wanted to see every player completely exposed, to know what work he has to do. Kind of like an audition year for the whole ###### team.

 

It would make sense, especially if they trust one another as a tandem, and don't feel any of the "win now" pressure. Maybe they got the "OK" to play the long game. It would be fantastic if GMBot really unlocked the secret to NHL success in building through the farm team.

 

If this is phase 1, I think Housley gets a full shot at going through phase 2, which will probably be next season. Maybe Botterill is actually more focused on who is going to replace the Roch call-ups next year, rather than who is going to be the key UFA signing or blockbuster trade.

This would make sense... however, they had a few years of game film at their disposal to evaluate the players strengths and weaknesses BEFORE the season started, yet they completely ignored it.

[erickompositör72]

This would make sense... however, they had a few years of game film at their disposal to evaluate the players strengths and weaknesses BEFORE the season started, yet they completely ignored it.

 

Maybe they just blamed Bylsma, like we did  :P

[pi2000]

Maybe they just blamed Bylsma, like we did :P

Blamed him for what? Sure maybe his system was the greatest (even tho it got them 74 points without Eichel for half a season).

 

They can still evaluate effort and skill no matter the system... and Lehner.

[Carmel Corn]

Wow Wee Housley is a rookie NHL head coach.  He should have had the common sense to hire EXPERIENCED NHL assistants vs. the unproven ones now (ex. Hajt). 

 

I also blame him for the complete destruction of the powerplay from last year.  The talent is not much different, so it has to be the scheme.  Kind of reminds me how Rex Ryan destroyed a highly effective Bill's defense.

[Gramps]

I find it hard to believe that this team would be playing any better under Jon Cooper, Gerard Gallant, Rick Tocchet, Claude Julien or you name him. 

[pastajoe]

I also blame him for the complete destruction of the powerplay from last year. The talent is not much different, so it has to be the scheme. Kind of reminds me how Rex Ryan destroyed a highly effective Bill's defense.

That’s my biggest issue with him. Coaches always think they can do it better. Don’t mess with success, it was the one thing they had right.

[erickompositör72]

That’s my biggest issue with him. Coaches always think they can do it better. Don’t mess with success, it was the one thing they had right.

 

I have a theory that all of Phil's rhetoric (playing fast, attacking, exciting) had the effect of making the entire team think they no longer had to play smart, disciplined hockey. I think that subconsciously set in before they even got to training camp.

 

I think their PP success last year came from a combination of skill and discipline. This year, the discipline went out the window (hence all the early season shorties we allowed). Not to mention that stupid drop-the-puck-back-5-times-in-the-neutral-zone-before-entering-the-offensive-zone thing.

[eman]

I find it hard to believe that this team would be playing any better under Jon Cooper, Gerard Gallant, Rick Tocchet, Claude Julien or you name him. 

 

I don't. I absolutely believe they would be playing better under any of the above mentioned. Why the regression from Bylsma to Housley? I know they regressed a bit under DD's 2nd year (it got him canned as everyone had the expectations of being better) but the absolute cliff drop under Phil?

I don't. I absolutely believe they would be playing better under any of the above mentioned. Why the regression from Bylsma to Housley? I know they regressed a bit under DD's 2nd year (it got him canned as everyone had the expectations of being better) but the absolute cliff drop under Phil?

 

scratch that, perhaps not under Tocchet!

[Thorny]

What are the things Sam is good at other than camping out 2 feet from the net and tipping in rebounds ?

 

When Reinhart has space, he can pass the puck as well as anyone on the team. Or, I should say, better than anyone on the team, except Eichel, who Sam would, I believe, actually equal in that regard. The difference between the two is that Eichel creates space for himself because of his raw athleticism, with a downright powerful and exceptionally balanced skating stride. Sam is an average skater who therefore, especially 5 v 5, will occasionally (and this year, often) struggle to create that space for himself. He doesn’t even have a threatening shot, to back defenders off. With weaker players, he’s rendered downright ineffective.

 

If paired with high skill players, it stands to reason that if those players are good enough to draw the lion’s share of the defensive focus from the opposing team, that may result in just a little bit more space for Sam, that he may be able to capitalize on. His hockey sense would serve him well in this regard, as well as his reasonably deft hands in close, if he can accept that his natural strengths in those areas are only beneficial if he’s supremely focused on his craft.

 

I don’t think Sam will ever be a good skater. His chances of success, in my mind, rest more firmly in his ability to grow his greatest strengths, and who he’s lined up with. Experience should help.

 

Whether one views Sam Reinhart as a piece to the their hypothetical contending team going forward could depend on how much value one attributes to players who are complimentary, rather than impact.

[Gramps]

When Reinhart has space, he can pass the puck as well as anyone on the team. Or, I should say, better than anyone on the team, except Eichel, who Sam would, I believe, actually equal in that regard. The difference between the two is that Eichel creates space for himself because of his raw athleticism, with a downright powerful and exceptionally balanced skating stride. Sam is an average skater who therefore, especially 5 v 5, will occasionally (and this year, often) struggle to create that space for himself. He doesn’t even have a threatening shot, to back defenders off. With weaker players, he’s rendered downright ineffective.

 

If paired with high skill players, it stands to reason that if those players are good enough to draw the lion’s share of the defensive focus from the opposing team, that may result in just a little bit more space for Sam, that he may be able to capitalize on. His hockey sense would serve him well in this regard, as well as his reasonably deft hands in close, if he can accept that his natural strengths in those areas are only beneficial if he’s supremely focused on his craft.

 

I don’t think Sam will ever be a good skater. His chances of success, in my mind, rest more firmly in his ability to grow his greatest strengths, and who he’s lined up with. Experience should help.

 

Whether one views Sam Reinhart as a piece to the their hypothetical contending team going forward could depend on how much value one attributes to players who are complimentary, rather than impact.

 

Nice post ... 

 

Why is it impossible for Sam to become a better skater ? Certainly off-season strength training and the right skating coach could improve things assuming he has no physical limitations like the back issues had by Hodgson.

[Neo]

When Reinhart has space, he can pass the puck as well as anyone on the team. Or, I should say, better than anyone on the team, except Eichel, who Sam would, I believe, actually equal in that regard. The difference between the two is that Eichel creates space for himself because of his raw athleticism, with a downright powerful and exceptionally balanced skating stride. Sam is an average skater who therefore, especially 5 v 5, will occasionally (and this year, often) struggle to create that space for himself.

I’m admittedly going off topic for this thread. If my question’s interesting, perhaps one of “the learned” will open another. Those who know me know I use the phrase “the learned” in only the most respectful and admiring way. Thorny is among the learned. He’s not alone, here!

 

You mention Eichel’s skating, athleticism and balance. I see the obvious raw power and speed. I see the effective results. For years, I’ve read he’s an elite skater. The experts say so and I believe them. I have no quarrel with the conclusion.

 

I do, however, have a mind’s eye and wonder if I share it with anyone else. There are times I see Eichel rock from a bent over, classic 45 degree posture, to an upright, bent again, then upright again wobble. It’s almost like he’s going so fast he has different parts of his body catching up with themselves.

 

Do I share this with anyone else? I’m prepared to be exposed as an observer with dull eyes.

[Two or less]

Wow Wee Housley is a rookie NHL head coach.  He should have had the common sense to hire EXPERIENCED NHL assistants vs. the unproven ones now (ex. Hajt). 

 

I also blame him for the complete destruction of the powerplay from last year.  The talent is not much different, so it has to be the scheme.  Kind of reminds me how Rex Ryan destroyed a highly effective Bill's defense.

 

That's it for me too. I wonder what really happened in the hiring process of coaches. Also why did they let Bob Woods go? The guy was running the leagues best PP and after letting him go, he went to the Wild who now have the 14th best PP. Also shortly hiring Housley, Elliott Friedman had reported that we were on the verge of hiring Jack Capuano as an assistant.

 

In any case, I was for hiring Housley, and i'm starting to think I was wrong but i don't think they will or should fire him this season. He needs another season. Just look at Colorado, they had 48pts in Jared Bednar's first season and i'm sure a web site such as Sabrespace in Denver was wondering if Sakic should pull the plug on him too. They stayed with it and the Aves are one of the nicer stories this season.