Randall Flagg Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 The only ones you and Flagg mentioned that I would consider legitimate "I'm building around this guy" players are Karlsson, Dionne and Stamkos. Stamkos will be 5-10 this year. Dionne is a great example of a "cornerstone" player in bad circumstances. Karlson has made it more often than not. Are those guys to blame for their teams' lack of success? Or are they what kept those teams out of even worse trouble due to things out of their control? The only way I could concede that you're right is, like I said earlier, if Jack is only a 50-60 point player, and then he's not a franchise player to build around. If he stays EXACTLY THE SAME as he was last year he'll be a top 10 scorer, and any team failures would be because of other stuff, not because we didn't have a talented enough best player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Tavares has only made the playoffs three times in an eight year career. He might not be the "cornerstone" you think he is. Phaneuf, Kessel, and Seguin all were top five picks IIRC. Who cares how old Hasek was when he was traded? He played for seven years after that and won two Cups. And why should it matter whether he was in the cap era? I'm jumping back a bit in this one. I don't like including Hasek in the discussion. That was a completely different time. In my mind, the modern hockey era starts with the return from the lockout in 2005. I know that strictly limits how much time we have to work with, but with the cap came a whole new world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 The only ones you and Flagg mentioned that I would consider legitimate "I'm building around this guy" players are Karlsson, Dionne and Stamkos. Stamkos will be 5-10 this year. Dionne is a great example of a "cornerstone" player in bad circumstances--maybe the best example--and still made it close to 50%. Karlson has made it more often than not. But that's all we need to prove our point, 1 player. The belief that all players cannot be considered cornerstone players if they do not make the playoffs more than 50% of the time is incorrect if we can find even one example against it. Although we disagree on the others, we apparently have found at least one in Dionne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 we are actually one of few teams with the cap space to do it, but I would trade O'Reilly or Samson after it though. Also doesn't he have family in the Buffalo area ? His uncle is the greatest box lax player of all time. There has been more than one Tavares jersey spotted at the MMarena. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 I'm jumping back a bit in this one. I don't like including Hasek in the discussion. That was a completely different time. In my mind, the modern hockey era starts with the return from the lockout in 2005. I know that strictly limits how much time we have to work with, but with the cap came a whole new world. I agree. Modern era is post 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Would you rather have Reinhart and Kane or Tavares and a random NHL winger? I'm not suggesting that would be the trade. I am saying that if the Isles were to shop JT, Reinhart-plus would be the price and few teams would have a Reinhart to offer. I am saying that the cost of signing JT would prevent us re-signing Kane, and that we would probably be best served by trading Kane to recoup the "plus" in the Reinhart trade. My prediction was right, Zadorov scratched because he is not in "game shape" This deserves a smirk. Love Zads' personality, but this is who he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Would you rather have Reinhart and Kane or Tavares and a random NHL winger? I'm not suggesting that would be the trade. I am saying that if the Isles were to shop JT, Reinhart-plus would be the price and few teams would have a Reinhart to offer. I am saying that the cost of signing JT would prevent us re-signing Kane, and that we would probably be best served by trading Kane to recoup the "plus" in the Reinhart trade. This deserves a smirk. Love Zads' personality, but this is who he is. ask me in 2 months Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Would you rather have Reinhart and Kane or Tavares and a random NHL winger? I'm not suggesting that would be the trade. I am saying that if the Isles were to shop JT, Reinhart-plus would be the price and few teams would have a Reinhart to offer. I am saying that the cost of signing JT would prevent us re-signing Kane, and that we would probably be best served by trading Kane to recoup the "plus" in the Reinhart trade. This deserves a smirk. Love Zads' personality, but this is who he is. Reinhart and Kane. Youth and team chemistry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Good article on the contracts being handed out. This caught me by surprise On Ehlers: Which brings us to the risk on the other side for the players: the possibility they could exceed the value of their contract. That probably will not be the case for Eichel given that he is one of just six players in the league bringing in a salary cap hit of more than $10 million per season, but it is possible that Ehlers could outperform his deal before it’s finished. Keep in mind that he is just now entering his age-21 season and has already recorded 102 NHL points in just 154 games. In the salary cap era (since the start of the 2005-06 season) he is one of just six players to record at least 100 points before his age-21 season in fewer than 160 games. The rest of the list includes Sidney Crosby, Alex Ovechkin, Anze Kopitar, McDavid and Eichel. That is… pretty sensational company, and a good sign that he has the potential to be a standout player for a long time in Winnipeg. And on Jack In just his second year in the league he averaged nearly a point per game after suffering a significant ankle injury that kept him out of the lineup for a significant chunk of the season. That level of production alone (11th in the league in points per game) should be enough to illustrate just how much potential he has. When considering that he did what he did after an injury, on a team that simply wasn’t very good without much help around him, it’s clear Eichel is a special player. Over a full healthy season he has the potential to be one of the top scorers in the league and a franchise-changing player. That is probably worth more than the $10 million-per-year price tag. https://www.fanragsports.com/latest-mega-contracts-mean-nhl/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 I really don't understand the idea of players outperforming their contracts. If I were a player I would view this as a good thing because it would mean that A) Our team is probably winning because B) my taking a cheaper deal has probably enabled my GM to build a better team around me.What player wouldn't want to outperform their contract? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Not useless, overpaid when looking at point production. That was the line in the article. I was commenting on the article and the nexus he drew between the two. If you want to add value for other things fine. The article was about points. The article said mirror-image. You can think ROR is overpaid if you like (you'd be incorrect), but there is a huge talent/production gap between ROR and Bogisian. One is making team Canada. The other is always hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Looks like Ovie might have a hat trick? Hawks dancing all over the Pens, Kane with a 4 point night. Maybe not on Ovie, they might have been referring to Kane. Anyway, Hawks up 8-1 on Pittsburgh with 5 minutes to play in the second, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Keller scores his first against an Anaheim team that's missing Lindholm, Vatanen, Kesler, and Getzlaf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabel79 Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) Hawks up 10-1 on Pittsburgh. Not even the end of the 2nd. Yeesh. Nevermind, end of the third. I can't read. Edited October 6, 2017 by Sabres79 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Hawks up 10-1 on Pittsburgh. Not even the end of the 2nd. Yeesh. Nevermind, end of the third. I can't read. And they are going to Nashville next, I thought I wouldn't want to be the next team but the preds have a grudge of their own to pay back :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Keller scores his first against an Anaheim team that's missing Lindholm, Vatanen, Kesler, and Getzlaf. Man I was really sold on him too. Think Keller will be a star Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) Man I was really sold on him too. Think Keller will be a star Don't worry we took the Clayton Keller of 2017, who's bigger and faster. 5'10" 168lbs v. 6' 201lbs Edited October 6, 2017 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 David Backes out 3-4 weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 David Backes out 3-4 weeks Back fracture from carrying the weight of his contract around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Looks like Ovie might have a hat trick? Hawks dancing all over the Pens, Kane with a 4 point night. Maybe not on Ovie, they might have been referring to Kane. Anyway, Hawks up 8-1 on Pittsburgh with 5 minutes to play in the second, lol. Only one game but impressed with kane. Doesn't seem to matter who he plays with he elevates his linemates. Toews gets his buddy Saad again, and Anisimov anchors a 3rd line with sharp. This team is better build than most thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 But that's all we need to prove our point, 1 player. The belief that all players cannot be considered cornerstone players if they do not make the playoffs more than 50% of the time is incorrect if we can find even one example against it. Although we disagree on the others, we apparently have found at least one in Dionne But hockey didn't start until 2005... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Other than the one hanging from the rafters? Whatever would we do without Kane's nightly logo sniping? You almost can't give the guy the puck in anything other than a prime location because he's going to shoot it anyway and give away possession. Just watching the game make me not want to pass him the puck and putting him on a line with Eichel is wasteful. Pominville can complement what Eichel does and will pass the puck himself to an open man. Kane is a puck devouring vortex. He needs to be with a center who doesn't care if they never shoot the puck and another winger who doesn't mind that the only thing they will ever do is crash the net and fetch pucks off the boards. Kane, Samson and Larry? The 5k or so walking around at any given Bandits game. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Calvin Pickard traded to Toronto for Tobias Lindholm and a 6th Rd pick in 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 Calvin Pickard traded to Toronto for Tobias Lindholm and a 6th Rd pick in 2018 AHLer Tobias Lindberg Wrong Tobias I would have taken a shot at Pickard here. Sounded like an odd move by LV dumping him for Subban, but I guess Subban has the higher ceiling, but Pickard has more NHL experience.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 Somehow the Knights got stuck with their best center, Shipachyov, in the AHL, and he's not playing tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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