darksabre Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 More Tavares rumors...Bossy confirms...Buffalo a top destination. https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/nhl-great-reports-tavares-will-be-traded-shortly?ref=Christine That's not what that says at all but okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 There is not a snowballs chance in hell Tavares is coming here. Let alone being traded here Apart from the salary cap, why would you say this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Apart from the salary cap, why would you say this? How often does that move actually happen in hockey? Stars like Tavares do not leave. Let alone go somewhere like a small town Buffalo to play 2nd fiddle to another star Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 How often does that move actually happen in hockey? Stars like Tavares do not leave. Let alone go somewhere like a small town Buffalo to play 2nd fiddle to another star Hockey teams also don't play in an arena designed specifically for basketball all while constantly facing rumors of relocation. That's an extreme scenario out there in Brooklyn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Hockey teams also don't play in an arena designed specifically for basketball all while constantly facing rumors of relocation. That's an extreme scenario out there in Brooklyn. He's not leaving. It's Stamkos 2.0. And there is no way in hell they trade him. Try explaining that to a fan base Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 How often does that move actually happen in hockey? Stars like Tavares do not leave. Let alone go somewhere like a small town Buffalo to play 2nd fiddle to another star So as to the first part, he's said he wants to leave if there's not a new building and if the team isn't going to improve. He doesn't want to waste his career in Brooklyn. That's clear. As to Buffalo as a destination, why not? Good players have gone to smaller, more remote cities (Lucic-Edmonton), worse hockey markets (Oshie-Washington), and we had stars come here to play second fiddle to Eichel just two years ago (Kane and O'Reilly). Buffalo is close to his hometown and could be on the cusp of something great. I see the cap as the only obstacle, and it's a big one. He's not leaving. It's Stamkos 2.0. And there is no way in hell they trade him. Try explaining that to a fan base If Pocklington could explain trading Gretzky, I'm pretty sure the Isles can explain trading Tavares to the 7000 fans they have left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 So as to the first part, he's said he wants to leave if there's not a new building and if the team isn't going to improve. He doesn't want to waste his career in Brooklyn. That's clear. As to Buffalo as a destination, why not? Good players have gone to smaller, more remote cities (Lucic-Edmonton), worse hockey markets (Oshie-Washington), and we had stars come here to play second fiddle to Eichel just two years ago (Kane and O'Reilly). Buffalo is close to his hometown and could be on the cusp of something great. I see the cap as the only obstacle, and it's a big one. If Pocklington could explain trading Gretzky, I'm pretty sure the Isles can explain trading Tavares to the 7000 fans they have left. They went out and traded players to play with him to improve. They're looking at new buildings, and will get one http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/19214225/new-york-islanders-plan-submit-bid-build-new-hockey-arena-belmont-park Lucic went to Edmonton specifically to play with McDavid as a complimentary player. Same with Oshie to Backstrome / Ovechkin. Kane and O'Reilly are not Tavares, Stamkos, McDavid, etc. They are complimentary players, not franchise cornerstones. Franchise cornerstones do not leave. And why would he? He's the star on his team. He was drafted there, has the captaincy, and what he says goes. Why would he ever leave all of that? For a Cup? Maybe, but not if he believes he can realistically win one where he is, and get paid possibly more. If he leaves for a Cup, it's going to be somewhere where he is automatically the guy; Detroit, NYR, etc. He's not going to leave being a franchise cornerstone to come play 2nd line center in Buffalo Why would we even want him? He throws such a massive wrench in everything we've established I mean, they made entire documentaries on how absolutely insane that was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 They went out and traded players to play with him to improve. They're looking at new buildings, and will get one http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/19214225/new-york-islanders-plan-submit-bid-build-new-hockey-arena-belmont-park Lucic went to Edmonton specifically to play with McDavid as a complimentary player. Same with Oshie to Backstrome / Ovechkin. Kane and O'Reilly are not Tavares, Stamkos, McDavid, etc. They are complimentary players, not franchise cornerstones. Franchise cornerstones do not leave. And why would he? He's the star on his team. He was drafted there, has the captaincy, and what he says goes. Why would he ever leave all of that? For a Cup? Maybe, but not if he believes he can realistically win one where he is, and get paid possibly more. If he leaves for a Cup, it's going to be somewhere where he is automatically the guy; Detroit, NYR, etc. He's not going to leave being a franchise cornerstone to come play 2nd line center in Buffalo Why would we even want him? He throws such a massive wrench in everything we've established I mean, they made entire documentaries on how absolutely insane that was. He is NOT going to win a cup in Brooklyn. If he wants to win one, he's going to have to leave, and he knows it. And Detroit? Are you kidding me? That team is right back in the cycle of mediocrity that it was in when I was a kid. I could see NYR being an attractive destination, but they don't have the cap space, either. So-called franchise cornerstones can and do leave their teams. Calgary was building around Phaneuf. Kessel was supposed to be a cornerstone TWICE. So was Seguin. You may also recall a franchise cornerstone named Dominik Hasek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 He is NOT going to win a cup in Brooklyn. If he wants to win one, he's going to have to leave, and he knows it. And Detroit? Are you kidding me? That team is right back in the cycle of mediocrity that it was in when I was a kid. I could see NYR being an attractive destination, but they don't have the cap space, either. So-called franchise cornerstones can and do leave their teams. Calgary was building around Phaneuf. Kessel was supposed to be a cornerstone TWICE. So was Seguin. You may also recall a franchise cornerstone named Dominik Hasek. He's probably not going to win a Cup there. But they've shown a willingness to go out and improve around him, and he can probably convince himself he will Detroit has the allure of Detroit and Ken Holland. Sure they suck now, but it's easy to convince people they'll turn it around quickly Phaneuf and Kessel are not Tavares, not even close. Seguin was playing on the 4th line, and Chiarelli is a moron. Hasek wasn't in the cap era, and was traded when he was 37, coming off a season where he missed half the year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Phaneuf and Kessel are not Tavares, not even close. Seguin was playing on the 4th line, and Chiarelli is a moron. Hasek wasn't in the cap era, and was traded when he was 37, coming off a season where he missed half the year I have two words for you: Garth Snow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) He's probably not going to win a Cup there. But they've shown a willingness to go out and improve around him, and he can probably convince himself he will Detroit has the allure of Detroit and Ken Holland. Sure they suck now, but it's easy to convince people they'll turn it around quickly Phaneuf and Kessel are not Tavares, not even close. Seguin was playing on the 4th line, and Chiarelli is a moron. Hasek wasn't in the cap era, and was traded when he was 37, coming off a season where he missed half the year Tavares has only made the playoffs three times in an eight year career. He might not be the "cornerstone" you think he is. Phaneuf, Kessel, and Seguin all were top five picks IIRC. Who cares how old Hasek was when he was traded? He played for seven years after that and won two Cups. And why should it matter whether he was in the cap era? I have two words for you: Garth Snow Another good point. Edited October 5, 2017 by Eleven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Not breaking news: I've never seen speed like McDavid has. He's Usain Bolt on skates. JFC. I mean - seriously. It's truly unbelievable. Was it 25 MPH he was going at the end of that one goal -- when he then stopped on a mother-effing DIME?! 25 miles per hour. Unreal. We are on NBCSN a lot compared to other non-MFTs. We are. It used to be because of Miller, I think. Now it's because of Eichel. That, and our market, modest in size as it is, is a really good hockey market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 JFC. I mean - seriously. It's truly unbelievable. Was it 25 MPH he was going at the end of that one goal -- when he then stopped on a mother-effing DIME?! 25 miles per hour. Unreal. We are. It used to be because of Miller, I think. Now it's because of Eichel. That, and our market, modest in size as it is, is a really good hockey market. It's because they get good ratings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Tavares has only made the playoffs three times in an eight year career. He might not be the "cornerstone" you think he is. Phaneuf, Kessel, and Seguin all were top five picks IIRC. Who cares how old Hasek was when he was traded? He played for seven years after that and won two Cups. And why should it matter whether he was in the cap era? Another good point. Eichel hasn't made the playoffs in 2 years, does that make him not a cornerstone player? Every person around the league would agree Tavares is a cornerstone player Reinhart, Bennett, Marner...all top 5 picks. Being a top 5 pick does not make you a cornerstone player. Because at that point, at that moment, he was old, and hurt, and we were bad. They weren't trading a cornerstone piece in his prime. You really think we would have traded him in his prime? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Eichel hasn't made the playoffs in 2 years, does that make him not a cornerstone player? Every person around the league would agree Tavares is a cornerstone player Reinhart, Bennett, Marner...all top 5 picks. Being a top 5 pick does not make you a cornerstone player. Because at that point, at that moment, he was old, and hurt, and we were bad. They weren't trading a cornerstone piece in his prime. You really think we would have traded him in his prime? If Eichel goes 3-for-8, I will have to conclude that he was not the right piece to build around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 If Eichel goes 3-for-8, I will have to conclude that he was not the right piece to build around. I don't know how this can be the right conclusion in that case, without knowing more details about his play in those eight years. Save for 2 players right now in the NHL, Sid and McDavid, no player can individually change that. That doesn't mean there are only 2 franchise players in the league worth building around. Now, if Jack is a 56 point player every single season through that stretch, then sure, we need better high end talent. But even if Jack only stays at last year's pace and scores 77 points per year throughout that stretch, well, plenty of teams win cups with less production from their best offensive player. It would clearly be an issue with the other 18 guys on the ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 If Eichel goes 3-for-8, I will have to conclude that he was not the right piece to build around. I can't disagree more. There are tons of examples of cornerstone players in sports in bad circumstances / teams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) How often does that move actually happen in hockey? Stars like Tavares do not leave. Let alone go somewhere like a small town Buffalo to play 2nd fiddle to another star we are actually one of few teams with the cap space to do it, but I would trade O'Reilly or Samson after it though. Also doesn't he have family in the Buffalo area ? Edited October 5, 2017 by Huckleberry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 I can't disagree more. There are tons of examples of cornerstone players in sports in bad circumstances / teams Name these cornerstone players who miss the playoffs more often than not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Name these cornerstone players who miss the playoffs more often than not. Philip Rivers, playoffs 5/11 times Eichel, 0/2 times Mike Trout, 1/7 times Joey Votto, 3/10 times Ken Griffey Jr, 4/22 times etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) Name these cornerstone players who miss the playoffs more often than not. Tavares, Benn, Stamkos for his first 5-7 years or so, Barkov (almost a point per game over his last 100, and selke candidate), OEL (top 10 D in the league). Has Karlsson made it half the time? It's close. These are all guys I'd love to build a team around and in general had no help a lot of their career. Benn's only made the playoffs 2 or 3 times. Tampa only started being good in 13-14, aside from one ECF trip in 2011, after which they were bottom 3 in the league. And blaming the lack of playoffs for these guys on them not being good enough would be absolutely insane given each situation. Edited October 5, 2017 by Randall Flagg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) Philip Rivers, playoffs 5/11 times Eichel, 0/2 times Mike Trout, 1/7 times Joey Votto, 3/10 times Ken Griffey Jr, 4/22 times etc Stick to hockey. You know, the sport where the majority of the teams MAKE the playoffs. Who are the cornerstone players who don't make it more often than they do? Edited October 5, 2017 by Eleven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) Tavares, Benn, Stamkos for his first 5-7 years or so, Barkov (almost a point per game over his last 100, and selke candidate), OEL (top 10 D in the league). Has Karlsson made it half the time? It's close. These are all guys I'd love to build a team around and in general had no help a lot of their career. Benn's only made the playoffs 2 or 3 times. Tampa only started being good in 13-14, aside from one ECF trip in 2011, after which they were bottom 3 in the league. Stick to hockey. You know, the sport where the majority of the teams MAKE the playoffs. Who are the cornerstone players who don't make it more often than they do? What Flagg said. Stamkos: 4/9 Benn: 2/8 Tavares: 3/8 Paul Kariya: 6/15 Pavel Bure: 5/13 Marcel Dionne: 9/19 Karlsson is 5/8 Flagg If I had more time I'm sure we could dig more up too. Or if I was older and could remember players My post was related to all sports in general anyways. Griffey 4/22 and Trout 1/7 is sufficient evidence for me, even if half the teams don't make it. They're 2 of, and in Trout's case THE, greatest players in the last 50 years Edited October 5, 2017 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 So he is signed now, but still not able to attend camp because his immigration papers aren't done yet. I like the kid but he is always unprepared and wouldn't surprise me if he showed up overweight at camp again. My prediction was right, Zadorov scratched because he is not in "game shape" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) What Flagg said. Stamkos: 4/9 Benn: 2/8 Tavares: 3/8 Paul Kariya: 6/15 Pavel Bure: 5/13 Marcel Dionne: 9/19 Karlsson is 5/8 Flagg If I had more time I'm sure we could dig more up too. Or if I was older and could remember players My post was related to all sports in general anyways. Griffey 4/22 and Trout 1/7 is sufficient evidence for me, even if half the teams don't make it. They're 2 of, and in Trout's case THE, greatest players in the last 50 years The only ones you and Flagg mentioned that I would consider legitimate "I'm building around this guy" players are Karlsson, Dionne and Stamkos. Stamkos will be 5-10 this year. Dionne is a great example of a "cornerstone" player in bad circumstances--maybe the best example--and still made it close to 50%. Karlson has made it more often than not. Edited October 5, 2017 by Eleven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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