R_Dudley Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 Good post. I will say that for my part, the bolded is why I'm so frustrated with this team. Last year (and the one before) you couldn't get mad after a while because they were so bereft of talent that no one expected them to win. But when they show up and play as well as they did in the 1st period against Pittsburgh, it's clear they can and should be better than they are. In years past I grew accustomed to watching the slow start as the players adjusted to the new teammates, made gradual progress, and inevitably coalesced into a legitimately good team at some point over the west coast road trip in Jan., then played consistently well for the remainder of the season. And as irritated as I am with Bylsma and I wouldn't mind seeing him go, I'm also inclined to side with we've in saying a lot of this is on the players. They play just well enough to give me hope, and then yet again manage to sh!t the bed. Yep, all good points. Especially the video, just when you think your out they pull you back in. Nice to see you post and hope this finds you well. . How has the move and change been for you? It's going on what a couple years now right? Still refining the palate for fine Liquors and exotic drinks I hope. We've really got a bunch of us started on expanding our drinking tastes with the "What have you been drinking thread(s)" Ah the good old days of Sabres playoff hockey and fine cocktails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 What stood out. Ennis and Moulson have no physical game. They really looked horrible and overpowered at times and Pgh is not a big physical team. It's a shame Rodriguez is stuck mainly with them because they are not strong on the puck at all, just a couple of stick check kings. Still Moulson had an open look at the net and just couldn't coral it. Which makes their re-signing to lengthy big dollar deals in 2014 all the more inexplicable; I was glad to see Moulson go - why Murray brought him back from the Wild....seemed like madness. Does/did Murray really think "Cup Run in 2017-18 or 2018-19" with those two on the offense? I don't see guys like that taking the Sabres to the Big Dance. We're stuck with both of 'em for 2 more seasons. About $9 million per year in cap hit too. Everyone criticizes Murray's defense - but those are a couple toxic offensive contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 I think Murray didn't expect that huge decline in Moulson, hell even I didn't see it coming. At the time I thought it was good to have a 20 goal scorer on this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 Which makes their re-signing to lengthy big dollar deals in 2014 all the more inexplicable; I was glad to see Moulson go - why Murray brought him back from the Wild....seemed like madness. Does/did Murray really think "Cup Run in 2017-18 or 2018-19" with those two on the offense? I don't see guys like that taking the Sabres to the Big Dance. We're stuck with both of 'em for 2 more seasons. About $9 million per year in cap hit too. Everyone criticizes Murray's defense - but those are a couple toxic offensive contracts. 40% of the cap is tied up in 6 players, Ennis, Moulson, Gorges, Gionta, Bogo and Kulikov, with only Gio/Kuli coming off the books this offseason, leaving $20mil on the books for Ennis, Moulson, Gorges and Bogo. If I'm GMTM I incentivize Vegas to take one of them in the expansion draft, preferably Moulson. That leaves Ennis, Gorges and Bogo.... I buyout Bogo, which will save about $4mil against the cap each of the next 3 seasons. I can live with Gorges as a bottom pairing guy with only 1 year left on his deal, and swing a deal with Vegas/tank team for Ennis. Those moves and the UFAs coming off the books would give BUF about $43mil in cap space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 Why did GMTM do this? I wonder if "Because Buffalo" is part of it. In order to restore Buffalo's reputation to would-be free agents, Murray over-paid/over-termed and handful of free agents to send the signal that the Sabres were serious about attracting/retaining talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 Why did GMTM do this? I wonder if "Because Buffalo" is part of it. In order to restore Buffalo's reputation to would-be free agents, Murray over-paid/over-termed and handful of free agents to send the signal that the Sabres were serious about attracting/retaining talent. We should have gone way over on money in order to reduce term. Instead of Moulson getting $25 million over 5 years we could have paid him $24 million over 4 years or something like $20 million over 3 years. We were closer to the floor than the cap and we should've paid the premium early in exchange for the added flexibility later on. Hindsight is 20/20 but that's what many of us were clamoring for even back then. Plus it would have been funny to see us get over the cap floor by paying a guy like John Scott $5 million to beat up Shawn Thornton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 Yep. I'd add in using irrelevant metrics in the hiring process. It would be great if we'd hire football people based on their football qualifications and hockey people based on their hockey qualifications rather than letting what type of wine you drink, spiritual beliefs, and success in unrelated sports factor in. Nice. What did Murray bring? Maybe it's the fact he was underqualified. No hockey emperors in Pegula's flat-earth hockey front office depth chart. Young first-time GM? Perfect. I can work with 'im. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 Nice. What did Murray bring? Maybe it's the fact he was underqualified. No hockey emperors in Pegula's flat-earth hockey front office depth chart. Young first-time GM? Perfect. I can work with 'im.Murray was not underqualified Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Dudley Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) 40% of the cap is tied up in 6 players, Ennis, Moulson, Gorges, Gionta, Bogo and Kulikov, with only Gio/Kuli coming off the books this offseason, leaving $20mil on the books for Ennis, Moulson, Gorges and Bogo. If I'm GMTM I incentivize Vegas to take one of them in the expansion draft, preferably Moulson. That leaves Ennis, Gorges and Bogo.... I buyout Bogo, which will save about $4mil against the cap each of the next 3 seasons. I can live with Gorges as a bottom pairing guy with only 1 year left on his deal, and swing a deal with Vegas/tank team for Ennis. Those moves and the UFAs coming off the books would give BUF about $43mil in cap space. Nice summary. Whoa 40% on 6 players. I like the way you think especially using the expansion draft to maneuver some of these boat anchors off the ship. Now can we get Timmy to read this and just say Aye, Aye mon capitan. Edited March 7, 2017 by R_dudly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biodork Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Yep, all good points. Especially the video, just when you think your out they pull you back in. Nice to see you post and hope this finds you well. . How has the move and change been for you? It's going on what a couple years now right? Still refining the palate for fine Liquors and exotic drinks I hope. We've really got a bunch of us started on expanding our drinking tastes with the "What have you been drinking thread(s)" Ah the good old days of Sabres playoff hockey and fine cocktails. Thanks, duds... not as long as it seems since I moved out west (not quite a year and a half now)! My bar collection continues to grow, but I seem to spend less time attending to it since it's already tough to stay hydrated out here without adding booze. Although I did have some tasty Bulleit rye old fashioneds during the game on Sunday. :) Apart from it being much harder to follow the Sabres with the time difference, the move has been awesome. I feel like I'm on permanent vacation because I can get outside and do things year-round here! I do wish I still lived close enough to drive and join the SS Meetup in a few weeks, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Murray was not underqualified How are his eminent assistant to the regional manager qualifications working out for ya? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 How are his eminent assistant to the regional manager qualifications working out for ya? Fine if he would fire the man running the banana stand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Fine if he would fire the man running the banana stand But there's always money in the banana stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 But there's always money in the banana stand. At this point Dan has basically just lit it on fire instead of looking inside it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 Nice. What did Murray bring? Maybe it's the fact he was underqualified. No hockey emperors in Pegula's flat-earth hockey front office depth chart. Young first-time GM? Perfect. I can work with 'im. I'm not sure. If I had to speculate I don't think Murray did that song and dance because Lafontaine hired him before leaving but I could be completely wrong about that and PLF could have done his own version of stacking the deck the way Russ Brandon did with Rex Ryan (here's your red wine for Terry, flowers for Kim, and I've written these 3 Bible quotes down on index cards for you to casually bring up during the interview). We don't really know for sure though because all we have to go on are press conferences with 3rd rate journalists that don't even ask pertinent questions half the time and radio interviews that lob softball after softball and rehearsed answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 Nice. What did Murray bring? Maybe it's the fact he was underqualified. No hockey emperors in Pegula's flat-earth hockey front office depth chart. Young first-time GM? Perfect. I can work with 'im. Short of actually being an NHL GM, how could he have been more qualified? More than 25 years in the league as scout, head scout and assistant GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 Short of actually being an NHL GM, how could he have been more qualified? More than 25 years in the league as scout, head scout and assistant GM. Plus with some obvious exceptions, I would probably want to give a well-thought-of AGM a shot at GM over a fired GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 Short of actually being an NHL GM, how could he have been more qualified? More than 25 years in the league as scout, head scout and assistant GM. If you're a franchise whose goals are so lofty they don't involve "just making the playoffs," they involve making the playoffs on a perennial basis as a contender, winning a Cup, and winning another one, and winning... going out and hiring someone who's never done the job should raise an eyebrow or two. We're three seasons in. Murray's honeymoon has lasted forever. He no longer gets the benefit of the doubt. What's he done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 If you're a franchise whose goals are so lofty they don't involve "just making the playoffs," they involve making the playoffs on a perennial basis as a contender, winning a Cup, and winning another one, and winning... going out and hiring someone who's never done the job should raise an eyebrow or two. We're three seasons in. Murray's honeymoon has lasted forever. He no longer gets the benefit of the doubt. What's he done?So you'd rather have somebody who's definitely failed at the job already? Wat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 If you're a franchise whose goals are so lofty they don't involve "just making the playoffs," they involve making the playoffs on a perennial basis as a contender, winning a Cup, and winning another one, and winning... going out and hiring someone who's never done the job should raise an eyebrow or two. We're three seasons in. Murray's honeymoon has lasted forever. He no longer gets the benefit of the doubt. What's he done? To the latter, Year one: completed the tank to draft the franchise's best talent since at least Lafontaine, traded for one of the league's better power forwards. Year two: traded for one of the league's best two-way centres and improved 27 points from awful to mediocre. Year three: added perhaps the best free agent on the market and spun his wheels in the standings. You present this interesting mix of unreasonably high expectations of those in authority coupled with a complete lack of faith in their ability to meet them. You are one of my favourite posters, so I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but have you ever thought about how those two characteristics are destined to forever feed each other in a never-ending circle? To the former - and very much related to the previous point - do you mean we should have hired a GM version of Dan Bylsma? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 If you're a franchise whose goals are so lofty they don't involve "just making the playoffs," they involve making the playoffs on a perennial basis as a contender, winning a Cup, and winning another one, and winning... going out and hiring someone who's never done the job should raise an eyebrow or two. We're three seasons in. Murray's honeymoon has lasted forever. He no longer gets the benefit of the doubt. What's he done? He's good for throwing niceties out the door and announcing draft picks quickly. Other than that he's guided the tank and successfully gotten us from complete bottom feeders to almost playoff bubble status. Unfortunately the steps he's completed are much easier than the steps he's expected to complete (playoff team, perennial contender, multiple cusps, and hopefully at least one Cup). As a disclaimer I generally like TM and despise DB. I would like TM to send DB packing but I'm convinced that DB's hire was actually Pegula's call and he doesn't have the authority to can him. I'd love to see Mr. ZFG live up to his moniker and just fire DB without care for the repercussions but I don't expect that to happen. Instead I think DB stays until we come out the gate stinking up the joint next season and Pegula finally feels enough pressure to cave and fire Mr. Grind them down from Pittsburgh. I have no proof of any of this but it makes as much sense as anything else based on everything we know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 If you're a franchise whose goals are so lofty they don't involve "just making the playoffs," they involve making the playoffs on a perennial basis as a contender, winning a Cup, and winning another one, and winning... going out and hiring someone who's never done the job should raise an eyebrow or two. We're three seasons in. Murray's honeymoon has lasted forever. He no longer gets the benefit of the doubt. What's he done? Well...what has he done wrong? :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 So you'd rather have somebody who's definitely failed at the job already? Wat Getting fired (or merely being available) does not equal failure. Going way back, Punch Imlach, the Sabres first GM, had been fired by the Leafs (after winning Cups) and did an incredible job in Buffalo. There are millions of examples. To the latter, Year one: completed the tank to draft the franchise's best talent since at least Lafontaine, traded for one of the league's better power forwards. Year two: traded for one of the league's best two-way centres and improved 27 points from awful to mediocre. Year three: added perhaps the best free agent on the market and spun his wheels in the standings. You present this interesting mix of unreasonably high expectations of those in authority coupled with a complete lack of faith in their ability to meet them. You are one of my favourite posters, so I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but have you ever thought about how those two characteristics are destined to forever feed each other in a never-ending circle? To the former - and very much related to the previous point - do you mean we should have hired a GM version of Dan Bylsma? A Cup-winning GM? Absolutely. I've been a solid supporter of Murray, but it's the end of year three and a healthy team that was on the playoff bubble is shitting the bed. It is, my friends, what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 If this team comes out of the gate next season and shites the bed we may never catch up. Missing the playoffs again with this coach will cause even the most faithful of fans to revolt. This off season is going to be career defining for Murray and sticking with a coach that stinks up the first month of the season could break him in Buffalo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 If this team comes out of the gate next season and shites the bed we may never catch up. Missing the playoffs again with this coach will cause even the most faithful of fans to revolt. This off season is going to be career defining for Murray and sticking with a coach that stinks up the first month of the season could break him in Buffalo. Yup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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