Doohickie Posted November 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 Yes, let's trade the guy who is on pace for a 14-goal, 28-point season who is leading the team in hits who second in takeaways who is +3 playing against the other team's best lines who is killing penalties regularly on an effective unit who is forcing turnovers with his effective board play who is one of a small handful of our guys who can throw 'em when needed And is now 50 games into showing a consistency that only comes with experience. And let's do it just so we can make room for player who looks like Foligno did three years ago who we hope can be as good as Foligno is now. Just what do you guys think a third-line NHLer does? * (That's what I would be posting here if I wasn't tired of being the only Foligno supporter on this board.) I have no problem with Foligno. As one who came in prior to the tank years, he was never really part of the rotten core, and really, never part of the tank. He's a good all-around NHLer. He's not a top line guy, but I have no problem putting him on a top line when the top line needs to be shaken up (as happened last night). There are problems remaining on this team, but Marcus is not one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 I'm here with you man. He's been great.I can't wait until our team is good enough to have Foligno on the 4th line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyldnwoody44 Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 Wouldn't Foligno be perfect in a trade for a good dman though? He's good enough to not be pennies on the dollar, sweeten with a draft pick, and maybe our team as a whole is better, Foligno is decent, but replaceable..... Where our D, needs some real NHL help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 If we ever get Fowler, Foligno will almost certainly be part of the package going the other way. Such a Kings/Ducks style winger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 Yes, let's trade the guy who is on pace for a 14-goal, 28-point season who is leading the team in hits who second in takeaways who is +3 playing against the other team's best lines who is killing penalties regularly on an effective unit who is forcing turnovers with his effective board play who is one of a small handful of our guys who can throw 'em when needed And is now 50 games into showing a consistency that only comes with experience. And let's do it just so we can make room for player who looks like Foligno did three years ago who we hope can be as good as Foligno is now. Just what do you guys think a third-line NHLer does? * (That's what I would be posting here if I wasn't tired of being the only Foligno supporter on this board.) I'm with you all the way, I don't quite understand the trade Foligno, he's the bad brother talk either. Further case in point, although Foligno didn't get a point in the first goal yesterday, it was his battling on the boards that won us possession to start up the play. First liner, no but you don't get rid of this guy unless there's a big payback. Wouldn't Foligno be perfect in a trade for a good dman though? He's good enough to not be pennies on the dollar, sweeten with a draft pick, and maybe our team as a whole is better, Foligno is decent, but replaceable..... Where our D, needs some real NHL help Not to be argumentative but you do know that we are 4th in the league in GA/GP so far this year. I don't think our D is as bad as you and others make it out to be. We are also 24th in GF/GP and you can add some of that on Jack and Kane being out but that is where our improvement is going to come from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 Assuming Foligno plays the rest of the year the way he has the last 50 games, my only issue with retaining him is going to be price. I'm just not sure a 3rd line checking-style winger is a guy you pay market value to while you still have contracts like Moulson and Bogosian on the books if you're still looking to upgrade the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyldnwoody44 Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 I'm with you all the way, I don't quite understand the trade Foligno, he's the bad brother talk either. Further case in point, although Foligno didn't get a point in the first goal yesterday, it was his battling on the boards that won us possession to start up the play. First liner, no but you don't get rid of this guy unless there's a big payback. Not to be argumentative but you do know that we are 4th in the league in GA/GP so far this year. I don't think our D is as bad as you and others make it out to be. We are also 24th in GF/GP and you can add some of that on Jack and Kane being out but that is where our improvement is going to come from. I think that may be because our O is playing a much more defensive style of game to make up for what we lack on the back end.... Maybe not, but it certainly is plausible...I mean ROR, Girgs, Larsson, etc, all 2 way guys, with not a lot of finish (maybe not with o reiley) doing a lot more forechecking and clogging up the neutral zone.....sure eichel will help, but upgrading the D may allow us to free flow a bit more without having to worry about, Casey Nelson, and Franson, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 When we were a small market team in a league without the cap we developed guys like Markus only to see them sign with a big market team because we couldn't afford them anymore. I don't want to develop guys just to trade em away when they finally hit. It would be nice to develop and let them help you win . Markus is helping us win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 When we were a small market team in a league without the cap we developed guys like Markus only to see them sign with a big market team because we couldn't afford them anymore. I don't want to develop guys just to trade em away when they finally hit. It would be nice to develop and let them help you win . Markus is helping us win. At what cost? Overpaying for guys like Foligno is one of the biggest mistakes teams make in a cap world. I like how he's developed (particularly if he keeps it up all year) but if he is after $3 million or more, I'm out. I think I can replace what he brings for a lot less than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted November 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 If he's a glue guy that doesn't get a lot of points, he's not going to command an absurd salary from other teams. Not sure what everyone is worried about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 If he's a glue guy that doesn't get a lot of points, he's not going to command an absurd salary from other teams. Not sure what everyone is worried about. I guess my point is I'm not comfortable paying him much more than he's making. I don't expect him to get $4 million offers, but I don't think low-3s is terribly unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted November 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 I'm not sure low 3s is that awful for what he brings. I'd be surprised if the rest of the league goes after him though. He brings more to the Sabres as a long-time member of the team and locker room presence than he would to another organization, imo. I think he stays much in the same way as the Red Wings somehow managed to hang onto that dynamo that is Drew Miller. He's got a little more offensive flash than Miller, but if you look at points per game per salary, he's already overpaid compared to someone like Miller. I guess what I'm saying is if you look at "comps", I don't think other teams are going to offer him unrealistic salaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 Wouldn't Foligno be perfect in a trade for a good dman though? He's good enough to not be pennies on the dollar, sweeten with a draft pick, and maybe our team as a whole is better, Foligno is decent, but replaceable..... Where our D, needs some real NHL help Just wondering are you unhappy with our defense performance up to this point or just reacting to preseason talk about defense being our weakness. I think we have had good goaltending to this point but also think we've been good defensively as well. Our offense is actually been weaker in my opinion. Granted we're missing two pretty big pieces there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyldnwoody44 Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 Just wondering are you unhappy with our defense performance up to this point or just reacting to preseason talk about defense being our weakness. I think we have had good goaltending to this point but also think we've been good defensively as well. Our offense is actually been weaker in my opinion. Granted we're missing two pretty big pieces there. I'll have to admit that I've only been able to watch a few games all the way through, and at other times have been catching pieces.... I think it's OK, probably performing better than expected, I'd love to see some more O production from our defense. I agree that our offense had been stale, but the goaltending has had to steal some points for us, I am just in the camp that a good 2 way Dman is probably more helpful long term to our team than a 3rd Liner that I feel could be replaced. I think over the course of the season we may see our D falter a little, especially with the little depth we have, so I think I'm more worried about what may come to be vs the past couple of weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 I guess my point is I'm not comfortable paying him much more than he's making. I don't expect him to get $4 million offers, but I don't think low-3s is terribly unlikely. But the talk of his brother being better at $5.5 mil/yr? I'm sorry, I take Marcus at 4 over Nick at 5.5. I know that's not your point, but it's mine. ;) Why is this even an issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 You're lagged, aren't you? Just took me a while to log back in! :lol: The funny thing is, I was pretty much at the same place you were. Really thought heading into this season that McCabe would take a step back & Reinhart would take a step forward. Though McCabe has had the occasional ###### like the 1st FLA goal, he's handled the added responsibility really well. Maybe this goal is what Sam needed to get going & when all is said & done he'll have taken that step forward rather than suffering the sophomore slump. This game is all Lehner. We should have been down 4-0 going into the third. He kept us in it until we woke up. Probably should have beat Toronto, probably should have lost this one. It evens out. Grant, Franson, and ROR made that PK a breeze. Get these guys another NHL body on defense, Timmy. Or travel back in time and do it in July. This team can rack up wins without Jack, and need to be doing it as much as possible. Gionta played a very good game. Samson didn't until his goal. Hope that gets him started. Not speaking to these two posts directly but they touched on something I wanted to mention: I don't get the Reinhart angst. I get that he's not getting any #sicksnipes right now, and isn't goal scoring at the same pace as last season, but I don't think he is in a position where his play as a whole needs to "get started". Granted it's difficult to project such early season numbers out, but he's currently on pace for more points than last year. More. And that's missing his centreman and projected left winger. I get that some might have been expecting or hoping for a larger jump, but he's on pace for a 15 goal, 30 assist season this year, for 45 points, and he had 42 last year. If he's not even started yet, what do people expect, point-a-game? Samson is a playmaker, and a pass-first player. 30 assists would be a nice season, and I expect his pace to pick up as his linemates come back. I expect last season's goals to assists ratio was an anomaly. It's an extreme comparison, but how many goals did Jumbo Joe have last season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Wouldn't Foligno be perfect in a trade for a good dman though? He's good enough to not be pennies on the dollar, sweeten with a draft pick, and maybe our team as a whole is better, Foligno is decent, but replaceable..... Where our D, needs some real NHL help ^This. Our achilles heal is defense, imo, and an upgrade is an upgrade. But I will say, it better be a damned good top pairing Dman we get in any package we include Foligno in. I think he's just starting to come into his own and there is no denying his line as established a great chemistry over the last several dozen games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Just took me a while to log back in! Not speaking to these two posts directly but they touched on something I wanted to mention: I don't get the Reinhart angst. I get that he's not getting any #sicksnipes right now, and isn't goal scoring at the same pace as last season, but I don't think he is in a position where his play as a whole needs to "get started". Granted it's difficult to project such early season numbers out, but he's currently on pace for more points than last year. More. And that's missing his centreman and projected left winger. I get that some might have been expecting or hoping for a larger jump, but he's on pace for a 15 goal, 30 assist season this year, for 45 points, and he had 42 last year. If he's not even started yet, what do people expect, point-a-game? Samson is a playmaker, and a pass-first player. 30 assists would be a nice season, and I expect his pace to pick up as his linemates come back. I expect last season's goals to assists ratio was an anomaly. It's an extreme comparison, but how many goals did Jumbo Joe have last season? Going from 42 to 45 points isn't an improvement. That's a fluctuation. By that I mean if he's a 42pt player getting 45 one year is just a statistical anomaly and barely at that. I personally don't care how many points he has but his play has been tentative and cautious, he lacks confidence with the puck. He has improved in the last week but he needs to better. There is no angst. There is watching him on the ice and seeing him not make plays he could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 (edited) Going from 42 to 45 points isn't an improvement. That's a fluctuation. By that I mean if he's a 42pt player getting 45 one year is just a statistical anomaly and barely at that. I personally don't care how many points he has but his play has been tentative and cautious, he lacks confidence with the puck. He has improved in the last week but he needs to better. There is no angst. There is watching him on the ice and seeing him not make plays he could. It's literally an improvement. The definition of improving his point total from one year to the next. So if he's had one season in the NHL, you are ready to call the next season, where he gets more points, if that were to happen, an anomaly? Based on what? That makes no sense and isn't what "anomaly" means. I'm glad you are tuned in to his personal psyche and have firsthand knowledge of what he is feeling and thinking, and have determined that he lacks condifence. I need to learn how to do that. Edited November 7, 2016 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted November 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 This ain't no party. This ain't no disco. This ain't no foolin' around. I just realized: The action shot from the thread starter scored the winning goal. How cool is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 It's literally an improvement. The definition of improving his point total from one year to the next. So if he's had one season in the NHL, you are ready to call the next season, where he gets more points, if that were to happen, an anomaly? Based on what? That makes no sense and isn't what "anomaly" means. I'm glad you are tuned in to his personal psyche and have firsthand knowledge of what he is feeling and thinking, and have determined that he lacks condifence. I need to learn how to do that. Well, I don't claim to know what's in Reino's head, but do you think he's played well? He seems to disappear for long stretches (although I've noticed a couple of games in which he's been ineffective early but made a number of really nice passes as the game has progressed) and hasn't produced much offense -- and his coach hasn't been happy with him either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Well, I don't claim to know what's in Reino's head, but do you think he's played well? He seems to disappear for long stretches (although I've noticed a couple of games in which he's been ineffective early but made a number of really nice passes as the game has progressed) and hasn't produced much offense -- and his coach hasn't been happy with him either. I agree. And before someone says "well you are supposed to notice Sam, that's his game" let me just say I have specifically watching him the last few games. There are shifts where he is not engaged enough in the play. He is playing tentatively and I hope he snaps out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted November 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 I think if you shifted the paradigm it'd be a little easier to swallow: Call the Larsson line the #2 line and Reino the #3 line. We all know this is a stop-gap pending Eichel's return, and although Reinhart is a very talented player, he's not yet up to the task of leading a #2 line (especially considering he's getting the "best of the rest" with 1/3 of the top line players injured). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Well, I don't claim to know what's in Reino's head, but do you think he's played well? He seems to disappear for long stretches (although I've noticed a couple of games in which he's been ineffective early but made a number of really nice passes as the game has progressed) and hasn't produced much offense -- and his coach hasn't been happy with him either. I just don't think his game has been nearly as lacklustre as some seem to think, particularly in light of who is missing, in terms of his usual linemates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 So maybe it is true -- as Hot Daniel had opined during training camp -- that Reinhart's future as a successful NHL'er is on Eichel's wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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