GDT: Buffalo @ Detroit, 7:30 pm est, 12/1/2015

[That Aud Smell]

I firmly reject this reasoning. I'm sure if you could get him off record he'd give you a reasoned answer, but that doesn't make it correct. To me, this is kissing cousin to the "you never played the game" strain of argumentation that athletes sometimes fall back on when the media is critical.

 

I would prefer you reject it softly and every so gently. As a tender lover should.

 

Wait - what?

 

I hear what you're saying. You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I just don't see Gionta as the steaming pile of over-used dung that many here seem to.

 

maybe his inexplicable ice time is evidence there's a mini-tank going on, ya know, GMTM's vision of this season as "better, but not too much better."

 

Oh, hohohohahahaha. L.O.L., mister.

 

:unsure:

 

I would suggest people watch the video I posted in the original Bylsma thread which was locked by the moderators so I can't show you.

 

He sets up multiple systems for different games and will run misdirection as well to confuse an opponent. Problem is, unless you are a sharp lad, you may find yourself lacking in his system. It's funny watching Girgensons go from untouchable by 97% of the board to tradable in a matter of 25 games. Our buddy is still the same player. He just might take a bit longer to catch on.

 

Guys like Gionta and O'Riley are going to be leaned on until then. Heck, Weber was getting minutes at first for the same.

 

I think Bylsma sees something in Deslauries. He put him in every situation a few weeks in and then sat him. Maybe he will be the long term 3rd liner who can go both ways and put in 10~15 goals while dropping the gloves. Him and Legwand have been a fun match so far.

 

All interesting stuff. Especially the idea that Girgensons was a near mythical figure when all he had to do was be the Latvian Locomotive, but with Hot Daniel's system ... still struggling.

[Jsixspd]

Maybe Gionta reminds too many people of the tank. And for the super-cynical and suspicious, maybe his inexplicable ice time is evidence there's a mini-tank going on, ya know, GMTM's vision of this season as "better, but not too much better."

haha!!!  The Sabres ARE only 5 points above last place in the League..... however it looks like with McDavid sidelined with a bad case of Romoitis, Edmonton is bucking for 2 tank seasons back to back.   Maybe Edmonton is thinking at this point..... might as well?  

Edited December 2, 2015 by Jsixspd

[North Buffalo]

haha!!!  The Sabres ARE only 5 points above last place in the League..... looks like with McDavid sidelined, Edmonton is bucking for 2 tank seasons back to back.

 

2??? Been closer to 5

[TrueBlueGED]

I would prefer you reject it softly and every so gently. As a tender lover should.

 

Wait - what?

 

I hear what you're saying. You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I just don't see Gionta as the steaming pile of over-used dung that many here seem to.

 

 

See, I don't see him as a pile of over-used dung either. It's more like seeing him as being over-used and becoming a pile of dung. The dump/chase, get pucks deep, etc. is all well and good....for a bottom-6 player; but it has no real place in the top-6. The problem is exacerbated by playing with Moulson and Eichel, neither of whom are strong at puck retrievals--this is why Gionta's dumping and chasing has turned into a possession black hole, as opposed to just a negative. 

 

I don't think it's a secret that Moulson and Gionta are anchors who can't be on the same line, and their skills at this stage of their careers do not complement one another at all. O'Reilly struggled mightily while they flanked him (his scoring drought was when Moulson-ROR-Gionta was our top line), and I think it's pretty unreasonable to expect Eichel, as a rookie, to manage better than that. I also think it's pretty clear right now that Eichel is struggling and needs some help, not a pair of guys who are making the holes in his game more evident. If Gionta must be on Eichel's wing, the other side can't be Moulson--it has to be someone who can skate and retrieve the puck from deep and get it back to Eichel in space (and being able to play some defense wouldn't hurt either). Girgensons is the only guy who fits that bill.

 

This is probably a bad time to point out Moulson is under contract through 2019-20, right? For all of my bitching about Gionta, at least he brings defensive responsibility to the table even if his offensive skills are clearly quite diminished (I really don't hate Gionta, I hate how he's being used)...but what does Moulson do if he's not scoring? What a mess that contract is; I'd be shocked if it's not bought out before the end.

[MattPie]

Yup, Gionta belongs on the Bills

 

Can he kick extra points?

 

Did anyone else even hear Brad Richards' name until the shootout? 

 

No, and I thought the same thing when Moulson's was called too.

 

The other thing I loved seeing this team - a Red Wing gets "in the face" of a Sabre and the entire team responds immediately and aggressively.   There would never be another Chara running Miller type incident - well, there might be, but the other team would pay a price.  

 

:blink:

[SarasotaSabre]

Just got done watching the game. I keep paying attention to Eichel less and less each game. If he can't produce  during regulation he at least needs to score in the shootout.

thank you for the solid long-term view

[nfreeman]

See, I don't see him as a pile of over-used dung either. It's more like seeing him as being over-used and becoming a pile of dung. The dump/chase, get pucks deep, etc. is all well and good....for a bottom-6 player; but it has no real place in the top-6. The problem is exacerbated by playing with Moulson and Eichel, neither of whom are strong at puck retrievals--this is why Gionta's dumping and chasing has turned into a possession black hole, as opposed to just a negative. 

 

I don't think it's a secret that Moulson and Gionta are anchors who can't be on the same line, and their skills at this stage of their careers do not complement one another at all. O'Reilly struggled mightily while they flanked him (his scoring drought was when Moulson-ROR-Gionta was our top line), and I think it's pretty unreasonable to expect Eichel, as a rookie, to manage better than that. I also think it's pretty clear right now that Eichel is struggling and needs some help, not a pair of guys who are making the holes in his game more evident. If Gionta must be on Eichel's wing, the other side can't be Moulson--it has to be someone who can skate and retrieve the puck from deep and get it back to Eichel in space (and being able to play some defense wouldn't hurt either). Girgensons is the only guy who fits that bill.

 

This is probably a bad time to point out Moulson is under contract through 2019-20, right? For all of my bitching about Gionta, at least he brings defensive responsibility to the table even if his offensive skills are clearly quite diminished (I really don't hate Gionta, I hate how he's being used)...but what does Moulson do if he's not scoring? What a mess that contract is; I'd be shocked if it's not bought out before the end.

 

Good post.  While I am not nearly as down on Gionta as many others here are, I am down on Moulson and they do seem to constitute a non-productive pair of wings.  I too would like to see Zemgus take Moulson's slot with Eichel and Gionta (and perhaps Ennis take Gionta's slot when he returns).

 

As for buying out Moulson -- I could be wrong, but I thought there was no further cap relief to be had via buyout?

[PASabreFan]

I can't help but think of Moulson and Gionta as two old bucks, their hides a little forlorn, their antlers all gnarly, trying to lead knock-kneed, awkward, gangly Eichel through the woods. And Rudolph is all, "Imma save Christmas and you ###### are gonna be tied to the front of cars by the end of the day." I can't help it, but I try. The meds are not working at all.

Edited December 2, 2015 by pASabreFan

[Jsixspd]

 

 

 

:blink:

Lucic.  Sorry.  Get my scumbags mixed up from time to time.  :)

[That Aud Smell]

See, I don't see him as a pile of over-used dung either. It's more like seeing him as being over-used and becoming a pile of dung. 

 

Exceedingly good content there.

 

Agreed that Jack needs wingers, and, while many of us held out hope that he would, Moulson is not helping matters. Like, at all.

 

I can't help but think of Moulson and Gionta as two old bucks, their hides a little forlorn, their antlers all gnarly, trying to lead knock-kneed, awkward, gangly Eichel through the woods. And Rudolph is all, "Imma save Christmas and you ###### are gonna be tied to the front of cars by the end of the day." I can't help it, but I try. The meds are not working at all.

 

:w00t:

[qwksndmonster]

I think there's a bit of group think going on with Gionta.

 

That said, he does seem to turn the puck over more than he should.

Which is something I think you should reconsider. 

 

Gionta consistently gets the puck into the offensive zone. Almost every shift.  You could go with a bigger player, or you could go with a better scorer, but he's getting the puck deep with remarkable consistency. This takes pressure off the D, the goalie, and its creating shots.  That's why he gets the minutes. 

 

I'll add to what Blue said: Gionta is terrible on a skill line and on the PP.  He does play a "smart" game, but it just results in us losing the puck more often than not.  So many times I saw pucks go to Gionta that would be dangerous opportunities, but he doesn't have the skill or reach to make the play.  Normally I get sick of it when the board is so down on a single player, but after last night I can't even be mad. Gionta was terrible 5 on 5.  That was probably his worst game of the year (since his first 5 or so).

 

Nice to see Zemgus get back into it.  Great plays for the G and A.

 

Larsson played OK, but he still lacks offensive pop.  I'd like to see him centering the 3rd while Zemgus helps Eichel out.

 

Ristolainen and O'Reilly are freakin' BEASTS.   These two guys are why our team is so hard to play against.

 

Kane! Such a pretty skater. The end to end rush that drew the penalty in OT was beautiful.  So many guys on our team have no idea what to do with the space in 3 on 3.  Not that guy.

 

 

The refs swallowed the whistles hard last night.  But they still called 2 really weak slashes that normally never get called.  Bi-polar weirdos.

[TrueBlueGED]

Good post.  While I am not nearly as down on Gionta as many others here are, I am down on Moulson and they do seem to constitute a non-productive pair of wings.  I too would like to see Zemgus take Moulson's slot with Eichel and Gionta (and perhaps Ennis take Gionta's slot when he returns).

 

As for buying out Moulson -- I could be wrong, but I thought there was no further cap relief to be had via buyout?

 

There are no more compliance buyouts such that you totally wipe a guy from your cap, but regular buyouts are the same as ever--a reduced cap hit for an extended time on the books. I don't advocate buying him out after this season, but here's what it would look like: http://www.generalfanager.com/buyouts/321?day=15&year=2016

[qwksndmonster]

Oh and good on Drew Miller for his dirty snipe.  You don't see that every day.  Pretty play, better shot.

[That Aud Smell]

Larsson played OK, but he still lacks offensive pop.  I'd like to see him centering the 3rd while Zemgus helps Eichel out.

 

I'm starting to worry about Larsson. I saw some good hustle last night -- a few little gems, but ... I dunno.

 

I had him pegged as a good third liner. I'm beginning to wonder if Hamilton's criticism is well-taken: Seems to like it quite well in the top 6; can't find his way in the bottom 6.

[josie]

Oh and good on Drew Miller for his dirty snipe.  You don't see that every day.  Pretty play, better shot.

The Silver Bullet! 

 

I didn't watch the game for reasons previously stated. I was laughing when it went to OT, typical Detroit. Kinda surprised it went to a shootout though. I still hate shootouts. Fun to watch, annoying to lose to. Wins just don't feel satisfying, either. 

[Thorny]

I respectfully disagree that getting the puck deep on every possession is a positive attribute. It's not that you never want it, but that's seriously his only way of gaining the zone, and that's a problem. He also turns the puck over once in the zone far more than you'd like to see. Guy is a possession drag for these reasons.

 

Having said that, my biggest gripe isn't even his fault: PP and OT time. Starting OT with him on the ice is indefensible.

 

I'm fine with that on a short term basis, but I wouldn't want it to stretch too long. My worry would be if it works it won't get changed, which I think is sacrificing the long term goal (Jack's development into a franchise C) for short term wins.

 

This is exactly what I'm thinking, particularly the part about your biggest gripe. I did say in my post that at some point you have to put the focus on Bylsma, and this is what I meant. I wouldn't have a problem with Gionta at all as a third line player.

 

I don't buy the argument that there's no one else better to play in his spot, particularly in OT and the PP. 5 on 5, I see no reason not to have a second line consisting of Girgensons - Eichel - Ennis. Yes, Ennis is hurt, but Gionta was getting top 6 minutes when he was healthy.

 

As for Jack at RW, I agree I would only want it to be a short term deal. Both Eichel and Reinhart project to be at center so having them both at RW would just be to help them gain consistency and confidence. It has worked with Sam, so I think it would with Jack, too.

 

Gionta - maybe I'm willfully missing something - but he's not turning the puck over as in giving away, he's throwing the puck deep to turn the D. It is by design.

 

Pull the opposition d behind their own nets with speed on the left and bring the weak side forward down to pin the puck deep.

Gionta is very good at this. It gives slow pokes like Franson time to enter the zone, and it lets guys like Risto set up for the cycle up top.

 

Gionta is really following the design to a T. It really forces opposition to drop their forwards low, but it opens up the Buffalo attack from the right point. Which is the Sabres strength.

 

I don't think there is a player doing this better.

 

Anyway. I'm happy with him.

 

Fair enough. Gionta is a very interesting case, seems like a lot of people are watching the same games and coming away with completely different impressions.

 

 

This is probably a bad time to point out Moulson is under contract through 2019-20, right? For all of my bitching about Gionta, at least he brings defensive responsibility to the table even if his offensive skills are clearly quite diminished (I really don't hate Gionta, I hate how he's being used)...but what does Moulson do if he's not scoring? What a mess that contract is; I'd be shocked if it's not bought out before the end.

 

He's actually only under contract for 3 more seasons after this one, through 2018-19. Still far from ideal, though.

 

http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams/BUF?year=2016

[K-9]

Good post.  While I am not nearly as down on Gionta as many others here are, I am down on Moulson and they do seem to constitute a non-productive pair of wings.  I too would like to see Zemgus take Moulson's slot with Eichel and Gionta (and perhaps Ennis take Gionta's slot when he returns).

 

As for buying out Moulson -- I could be wrong, but I thought there was no further cap relief to be had via buyout?

Saw a fair amount of that last night. DD had Moulson skating with Legwand after the first period, iirc. I like Girgs on Eichel's wing, too,  and have since preseason. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

[Doohickie]

Saw a fair amount of that last night. DD had Moulson skating with Legwand after the first period, iirc. I like Girgs on Eichel's wing, too,  and have since preseason. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

I think that was mostly after special teams play and/or partial shift change.  I like it too though.

[inkman]

If we get that Kane every game I'll be thrilled

Edited December 3, 2015 by inkman

[PASabreFan]

The ElBogo celebration... discuss.

[qwksndmonster]

The ElBogo celebration... discuss.

My reaction was "ew"

[PASabreFan]

My reaction was "ew"

Maybe he's a germaphobe?

[inkman]

The ElBogo celebration... discuss.

Link?

[PASabreFan]

Link?

Hmmm, I don't think so. Not unless you want to download the game from a site we're probably not allowed to link to here.

[nucci]

All of you who thought Kane came back too early from his injury still feel the same way?