GDT: Buffalo @ Detroit, 7:30 pm est, 12/1/2015

[bcsaberks]

Which is something I think you should reconsider. 

 

Gionta consistently gets the puck into the offensive zone. Almost every shift.  You could go with a bigger player, or you could go with a better scorer, but he's getting the puck deep with remarkable consistency. This takes pressure off the D, the goalie, and its creating shots.  That's why he gets the minutes. 

I don't know X.  You're saying the litmus for a 17+ minute wing is "get the puck deep"?  That's what the 4th guys call success.  And Eichel carries the puck deep on that line while Gionta.  We have too much talent this year for Gionta to get these minutes.  And he's just not producing points.  I understand Byslma giving the vets a longer leash (moulson finally yanked in last night), but it's costing us games. 

[X. Benedict]

I don't know X.  You're saying the litmus for a 17+ minute wing is "get the puck deep"?  That's what the 4th guys call success.  And Eichel carries the puck deep on that line while Gionta.  We have too much talent this year for Gionta to get these minutes.  And he's just not producing points.  I understand Byslma giving the vets a longer leash (moulson finally yanked in last night), but it's costing us games. 

 

Gionta creates speed through the neutral zone. He's a terrrific player in transition. He really is. 

I think you could question his PP minutes -  fairly - but really, watch how many times the guy wins the zone. 

And he doesn't take penalties. (last night the exception). 

[3putt]

I don't know X.  You're saying the litmus for a 17+ minute wing is "get the puck deep"?  That's what the 4th guys call success.  And Eichel carries the puck deep on that line while Gionta.  We have too much talent this year for Gionta to get these minutes.  And he's just not producing points.  I understand Byslma giving the vets a longer leash (moulson finally yanked in last night), but it's costing us games. 

I think we have more talent than last year, but too much talent is a bit over the top.  We still need a.scoring rw and lw to balance out the top 6.  

Gionta creates speed through the neutral zone. He's a terrrific player in transition. He really is. 

I think you could question his PP minutes -  fairly - but really, watch how many times the guy wins the zone. 

And he doesn't take penalties. (last night the exception). 

The pp time and ot is what rubs me.  He doesn't have the shot on the pp and dump and chase is exactly the opposite of what ot is about.

[Doohickie]

So if the top line of Kane/ROR/Samson is good for now, and the second line needs to be shored up, maybe the return of Ennis (as maligned as he is) will be the boost they need.  We were all frustrated with Kane before he missed a few games and suddenly his role with his linemates came into focus.  Maybe Ennis will inject the same completeness to the second line.  Of course that will be a while from what Bylsma says.

[bob_sauve28]

Not getting the Gionta hate at all. 

That was his second penalty of the year by the way. 

His second.

His second minor in  22 games. 

 

He's getting minutes because we don't have better.

Blaming him for that game is crazy. 

 

I'd point to the penalty kill. How do Kane and Zemgus get caught deep on the Kill with a one goal lead with  6 minutes to play? 

Can't hate on Ennis now, so...

[TrueBlueGED]

Which is something I think you should reconsider.

 

Gionta consistently gets the puck into the offensive zone. Almost every shift. You could go with a bigger player, or you could go with a better scorer, but he's getting the puck deep with remarkable consistency. This takes pressure off the D, the goalie, and its creating shots. That's why he gets the minutes.

I respectfully disagree that getting the puck deep on every possession is a positive attribute. It's not that you never want it, but that's seriously his only way of gaining the zone, and that's a problem. He also turns the puck over once in the zone far more than you'd like to see. Guy is a possession drag for these reasons.

 

Having said that, my biggest gripe isn't even his fault: PP and OT time. Starting OT with him on the ice is indefensible.

I like this, but I would be tempted to put Eichel on wing for a while. It seems to have helped Sam and Jack seems to be in a bit of a slump.

 

Kane - O'Reilly - Reinhart

Ennis - Girgensons - Eichel

I'm fine with that on a short term basis, but I wouldn't want it to stretch too long. My worry would be if it works it won't get changed, which I think is sacrificing the long term goal (Jack's development into a franchise C) for short term wins.

[LGR4GM]

I'm with blue. Gionta instead of Reinhart in OT is rediculous.

[TrueBlueGED]

Hmmm. Perhaps that's part of what I'm seeing. He helps gain the zone, but I'm biased to detect the times when he or his line mates can't maintain possession.

 

I, for one, am in the camp of thinking that Bylsma's a shrewd and attentive hockey coach. If he's using Gionta the way he is, it's for good cause. Or, as X posits, because they ain't got better.

I firmly reject this reasoning. I'm sure if you could get him off record he'd give you a reasoned answer, but that doesn't make it correct. To me, this is kissing cousin to the "you never played the game" strain of argumentation that athletes sometimes fall back on when the media is critical.

[X. Benedict]

Gionta didn't get any PP time in OT that I noticed.

He was on the ice in OT though. 

Why? .....I don't think you can throw Moulson out there. 

[Doohickie]

I just had a thought:

 

It seems like Bylsma has given Jack a long leash and allowed him to play his style.  Maybe the thought of putting two vets on his wings is that he feels their experience will help them adapt to Jack's style of play, rather than putting Jack in a box and asking him to be Not Jack.

[PASabreFan]

Maybe Gionta reminds too many people of the tank. And for the super-cynical and suspicious, maybe his inexplicable ice time is evidence there's a mini-tank going on, ya know, GMTM's vision of this season as "better, but not too much better."

[Jsixspd]

Gionta didn't get any PP time in OT that I noticed.

He was on the ice in OT though. 

Why? .....I don't think you can throw Moulson out there. 

The OT line for the PP was great -  Kane, Eichel, O'Reilly, and Risto.   I thought it a wise choice by Dan.  They just didn't get the job done - they came oh so close to getting the puck in the net though - lot of gasps from the Detroit crowd.   :)      

Edited December 2, 2015 by Jsixspd

[TrueBlueGED]

Gionta didn't get any PP time in OT that I noticed.

He was on the ice in OT though.

Why? .....I don't think you can throw Moulson out there.

Bylsma needs to handle OT like other teams are. A select group of players who have puck skills and speed rotating quickly. Line change wind sprints basically. O'Reilly, Kane, Eichel, Reinhart, and Girgensons are the names (and Ennis when healthy) with Risto and Pysyk/McCabe/Bogosian on D. Instead, we get Gionta, Gorges, and Franson.

Maybe Gionta reminds too many people of the tank. And for the super-cynical and suspicious, maybe his inexplicable ice time is evidence there's a mini-tank going on, ya know, GMTM's vision of this season as "better, but not too much better."

You can't help yourself sometimes, can you? :lol:

[inkman]

I'm with blue. Gionta instead of Reinhart in OT is rediculous.

Its also ridiculous :nana:

[X. Benedict]

Gionta - maybe I'm willfully missing something - but he's not turning the puck over as in giving away, he's throwing the puck deep to turn the D. It is by design.

 

Pull the opposition d behind their own nets with speed on the left and bring the weak side forward down to pin the puck deep.

Gionta is very good at this. It gives slow pokes like Franson time to enter the zone, and it lets guys like Risto set up for the cycle up top.

 

Gionta is really following the design to a T. It really forces opposition to drop their forwards low, but it opens up the Buffalo attack from the right point. Which is the Sabres strength.

 

I don't think there is a player doing this better.

 

Anyway. I'm happy with him.

Edited December 2, 2015 by X. Benedict

[CallawaySabres]

Gionta - maybe I'm willfully missing something - but he's not turning the puck over as in giving away, he's throwing the puck deep to turn the D. It is by design.

 

Pull the opposition d behind their own nets with speed on the left and bring the weak side forward down to pin the puck deep.

Gionta is very good at this. It gives slow pokes like Franson time to enter the zone, and it lets guys like Risto set up for the cycle up top.

 

Gionta is really following the design to a T. It really forces opposition to drop their forwards low, but it opens up the Buffalo attack from the right point. Which is the Sabres strength.

 

I don't think there is a player doing this better.

 

Anyway. I'm happy with him.

 

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Gionta creates speed through the neutral zone. He's a terrrific player in transition. He really is.

I think you could question his PP minutes - fairly - but really, watch how many times the guy wins the zone.

And he doesn't take penalties. (last night the exception).

I would suggest people watch the video I posted in the original Bylsma thread which was locked by the moderators so I can't show you.

 

He sets up multiple systems for different games and will run misdirection as well to confuse an opponent. Problem is, unless you are a sharp lad, you may find yourself lacking in his system. It's funny watching Girgensons go from untouchable by 97% of the board to tradable in a matter of 25 games. Our buddy is still the same player. He just might take a bit longer to catch on.

 

Guys like Gionta and O'Riley are going to be leaned on until then. Heck, Weber was getting minutes at first for the same.

 

I think Bylsma sees something in Deslauries. He put him in every situation a few weeks in and then sat him. Maybe he will be the long term 3rd liner who can go both ways and put in 10~15 goals while dropping the gloves. Him and Legwand have been a fun match so far.

[Doohickie]

Anyway. I'm happy with him.

 

Yeah, but he has no place playing overtime.  As TBGED said, they should be our fastest, puck possession players.  Dumping and chasing is all well and good for 5-on-5 but 3-on-3 means you're just needlessly handing the puck over to the other team because it's suicide to send two forwards deep into the offensive zone to forecheck without possession.

[dudacek]

When a player gets a lot of ice time it is usually because he is doing exactly what the coach wants him to do.

read into that what you will.

[woods-racer]

I would suggest people watch the video I posted in the original Bylsma thread which was locked by the moderators so I can't show you.

 

He sets up multiple systems for different games and will run misdirection as well to confuse an opponent. Problem is, unless you are a sharp lad, you may find yourself lacking in his system. It's funny watching Girgensons go from untouchable by 97% of the board to tradable in a matter of 25 games. Our buddy is still the same player. He just might take a bit longer to catch on.

 

Guys like Gionta and O'Riley are going to be leaned on until then. Heck, Weber was getting minutes at first for the same.

 

I think Bylsma sees something in Deslauries. He put him in every situation a few weeks in and then sat him. Maybe he will be the long term 3rd liner who can go both ways and put in 10~15 goals while dropping the gloves. Him and Legwand have been a fun match so far.

 

Not only Girgensons but Ennis as well. He hasn't found the niche in DB style of game. 

[PASabreFan]

haha. X. has to feel like the dude who was standing with Glenn on top of that dumpster, looking down into the sea of snarling walker faces.

Bylsma needs to handle OT like other teams are. A select group of players who have puck skills and speed rotating quickly. Line change wind sprints basically. O'Reilly, Kane, Eichel, Reinhart, and Girgensons are the names (and Ennis when healthy) with Risto and Pysyk/McCabe/Bogosian on D. Instead, we get Gionta, Gorges, and Franson.

 

You can't help yourself sometimes, can you? :lol:

I can. It's the super-cynical and suspicious I worry about.

[X. Benedict]

haha. X. has to feel like the dude who was standing with Glenn on top of that dumpster, looking down into the sea of snarling walker faces.

 

I just wonder how he managed to get that footage of me  to make it look like I was booing myself. 

[kishoph]

Not only Girgensons but Ennis as well. He hasn't found the niche in DB style of game. 

 

I can not remember Ennis and Gus being paired together once this season, which is sort of confusing since they have had some success together in the past.

[North Buffalo]

Gionta - maybe I'm willfully missing something - but he's not turning the puck over as in giving away, he's throwing the puck deep to turn the D. It is by design.

Pull the opposition d behind their own nets with speed on the left and bring the weak side forward down to pin the puck deep.

Gionta is very good at this. It gives slow pokes like Franson time to enter the zone, and it lets guys like Risto set up for the cycle up top.

Gionta is really following the design to a T. It really forces opposition to drop their forwards low, but it opens up the Buffalo attack from the right point. Which is the Sabres strength.

I don't think there is a player doing this better.

Anyway. I'm happy with him.

Gionta's dump and chase game I was in thinking DD was using to try to get Eichel to learn that and to be honest Eichel sucks at it. He was a bit better last nite but he still gets tentative going into the corners. I was thinking this is why Jack is playing with those two. Unfortunately, Moulson just is a step past his prime and Gionta too so they cant be as irritating as they once were. As frustrating as this line is, i can see a purpose for the development of Jack. Reinhardt hustle and development is the goal. Still sabres need two more young goal scorers... Baptiste and hopefully one in the draft. Edited December 2, 2015 by North Buffalo

[bcsaberks]

Gionta - 

 

Anyway. I'm happy with him.

I appreciate the reasoning, really do.  And maybe that's part of it, he's following the game plan perfectly and being held out as an example.

 

But stats wise, compared to peers, it looks bad though:

RW only (sorted by TOI)

GP, TOI/GP, Pts

1. P Kane, 25, 21:15, 38

2. Loui E, 22, 20:13, 20

3. Tarasenko, 24, 19:46, 24

4. Stone, 22, 19:39, 21

5. Stempniak, 24, 19:18, 18

6. Wheeler, 25, 19:17, 25

7. Gionta, 22, 19:04, 8

8. Kessel, 24, 19:04, 17

9. Oshie, 23, 19:03, 12

10. Neal, 23, 18:44, 18

 

So he's 7th in the league for RW TOI avg, and 50th in pts in that same group (RW only).

 

(btw, O'Rielly is currently #1 fwd in league at 21:50 per game.  P Kane is 2nd, E Kane is 3rd.)  

Edited December 2, 2015 by bcSaberks