BMWR100RT Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I'm more of a lurker. I come to Sabrespace everyday and really enjoy you kids. I don't feel the need to comment much. But I'll say this. I just had my college bound daughter read this entire thread. Thanks Josie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I'm more of a lurker. I come to Sabrespace everyday and really enjoy you kids. I don't feel the need to comment much. But I'll say this. I just had my college bound daughter read this entire thread. Thanks Josie. What are her thoughts? And, I'm curious (feel free not to answer), but why did you have her read this thread? Did she really read the entire 31 pages? I don't think anyone since Derrico has attempted to read an entire thread filled with such chaotic debate :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I'm more of a lurker. I come to Sabrespace everyday and really enjoy you kids. I don't feel the need to comment much. But I'll say this. I just had my college bound daughter read this entire thread. Thanks Josie. I'm reporting you for child abuse. SORRY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 As others have said, excellent post Josie. Really shows the other side of the coin. I've been thinking a lot about how exactly to get the "rape culture" message across more effectively, as to what it is trying to say, and the best I've come up with is to draw parallels to bullying. While most men are not the victim of sexual assault, many are the victims of bullying (hell many have personally been on both sides there). Most of that (thought obviously not all) isn't hate-driven or intentionally hurtful, it's just "having some fun" and whatnot--the bullies dont realize the effects there really having. The victims of bullying often internalize the pain and are outwardly playing along and laughing, all while they suffer...afraid to be a "rat" or whatever by telling people in authority what is happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 As others have said, excellent post Josie. Really shows the other side of the coin. I've been thinking a lot about how exactly to get the "rape culture" message across more effectively, as to what it is trying to say, and the best I've come up with is to draw parallels to bullying. While most men are not the victim of sexual assault, many are the victims of bullying (hell many have personally been on both sides there). Most of that (thought obviously not all) isn't hate-driven or intentionally hurtful, it's just "having some fun" and whatnot--the bullies dont realize the effects there really having. The victims of bullying often internalize the pain and are outwardly playing along and laughing, all while they suffer...afraid to be a "rat" or whatever by telling people in authority what is happening. But isn't that just the sexist culture we are in right now (huge issue)? Why the rape term? (Sincere questions lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I'm more of a lurker. I come to Sabrespace everyday and really enjoy you kids. I don't feel the need to comment much. But I'll say this. I just had my college bound daughter read this entire thread. Thanks Josie. Just as long as she knows that we're not all like that. I worry that posts like that one paint the picture that the vast majority are like that. I don't know where the true numbers fall, but I'd venture the guess that most aren't. If women are being objectified, this feels like the male version of that, whatever you want to call it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 God I hate commenting in this thread. I always say too much but get across too little. But I get so exasperated reading it, and asking myself why the hell I keep ruining my day by reading it... .... They tell us to be sexual empowered, but I was raised believing I was a w hore if I gave up my virginity before marriage. "No one's gonna buy a cow that gives its milk away for free". Good lord, it's been a mindf*** that I still struggle with. Meanwhile," boys will be boys and screw around and oh well. If it happens don't get her pregnant. She can hold that over you 18 to life." Are suggesting that this is the experience and viewpoint of the average American female? As in, the majority of American females have experiences of the same intensity and drama as this? Just curious, not judging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Is this worth catching up on the last four pages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is you have to be aware of the desires of your partner. You can't take things for granted. Maybe you're an utter gentleman in bed. Maybe you've never gotten so drunk you don't remember what happened that night with that girl. But this stuff happens to a lot of people, and empowering women to say no is something we don't do enough of. And that is the point of the rape culture message. To show other women they aren't alone in how they feel. I agree with you in the case of lines being blurred between porn and reality. I think it's a problem, especially among young men who don't fully grasp that delineation. And there are many of them. I'm not advocating anything about the elimination of porn segments. I'm advocating that we talk about it more openly to help young men better understand the delineation that the rest of us see as clear. I disagree with the "niche society" argument. While there are certain demographics that are perhaps more susceptible to committing rape or being victimized, I don't think it's fair to generalize about those groups. Which I think is what you're doing. So I have a problem with this "drunk" thing. There is a line of thinking that says a drunk woman is unable to give consent. This is presumably because the decision making ability is impaired due to alcohol. As such, the woman is not being held accountable for the decision to engage in sex. At the same time there is a line of thinking that says a man who is equally as drunk should be able to make an unimpaired decision and is held accountable for the actions that occur. This creates a double standard as it relates to whether or not people are accountable for the decisions they make while under the influence of alcohol (or other drugs for that matter). What legitimate reason is there to explain that way of thinking? This is not including situations where someone is drunk and at some point during a sexual encounter decides they want to end it. I am talking in a purely, two people got drunk scenario and the next day an accusation is made. Do the majority of young men commit rape or engage in unwanted violent sex? What am I missing about your rebuttal? You are singling out an entire group of people as saying that they have a problem. I don't think there is anything that supports such a far reaching statement. My point is about those people with diminished mental capacity who believe that the fantasy items they may see on a screen are transferable into the real world. In my mind it's not even fair to single out men for this. For what it's worth, you do go on to tell me it's not fair to generalize about groups even though you, yourself, are doing the same thing in saying young men don't fully grasp the delineation. While you think I am generalizing I don't agree with you. I think it's fair to say that a large majority of situations where power and money are at play there are tendencies for people to ignore their moral compass. I also believe and if I go hunting I will find the statistics that support that criminal activities in impoverished portions of society are also higher than in other areas. People who are held up as idols develop a god-like complex and thus believe the rules don't apply to them. Those who are fighting to survive don't care about the rules because following them results in death. Both groups have greater reason to ignore the rules that normal society adheres to. Again.. so much more, but I should stop reading this group during work. Back to work I go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) Is this worth catching up on the last four pages? Lots of talk about porn and rape culture, you decide Honestly I think you wouldn't regret reading it over Edited August 18, 2015 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Lots of talk about porn and rape culture, you decide And rape porn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMWR100RT Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 What are her thoughts? And, I'm curious (feel free not to answer), but why did you have her read this thread? Did she really read the entire 31 pages? I don't think anyone since Derrico has attempted to read an entire thread filled with such chaotic debate :lol: She is only a bit into it. She lives a charmed life and probaly hasn't been around this kind of behavior Josie was talking about, but I have been around it. Humans can be cruel. It's best she knows that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I'm more of a lurker. I come to Sabrespace everyday and really enjoy you kids. Who you callin' a kid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josie Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) Are suggesting that this is the experience and viewpoint of the average American female? As in, the majority of American females have experiences of the same intensity and drama as this? Just curious, not judging. Yes, I am suggesting that. I'd even venture that I am/have been in a fairly safe environment, comparatively. I was not a sorority girl, I did not run with a "wild" crowd. I went to RIT, not exactly a "party school". I was a teetotalling straight A honors student in high school. I was a responsible straight A student in college. It also may be important to mention that I am a straight white lady, living comfortably. I was usually the DD at parties, I have always been reserved with my sexuality, only engaging in such situations with long term relationships. Many of my friends were of similar ilk, but I was also good friends with people of other styles of life/partying. I have a diverse group of people in my life, from college athletes to stereotypical frat boys to art kids and antisocial nerds, etc. etc. Despite all of this, I still saw and experienced plenty. Many of my friends experienced far more than me. I've heard their stories- those are not the stories I'm telling you, as I am not a first person source. If my background is necessary to validate the purpose of my post, then so be it. Not so sure it should be, but I know where you're coming from. Also, I'd like to say thank you to you guys for reading my ramble. I was tearing up over here reading some of your responses. I cannot speak for all women, but I can give you a taste of something I think about (and talk with other women about) daily. Edited August 18, 2015 by Josie914 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Not caught up, but I think the term 'rape culture' is another catch phrase conjured up by the media to give everybody the impression that it is some sort of epidemic on the verge of destroying society. It's nothing new, they do it often and it irresponsibly divides people, creates hysteria and leads to premature reactions. It a ridiculous phrase that isn't representative of our society as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Yes, I am suggesting that. I'd even venture that I am/have been in a fairly safe environment, comparatively. I was not a sorority girl, I did not run with a "wild" crowd. I went to RIT, not exactly a "party school". I was a teetotalling straight A honors student in high school. I was a responsible straight A student in college. It also may be important to mention that I am a straight white lady, living comfortably. I was usually the DD at parties, I have always been reserved with my sexuality, only engaging in such situations with long term relationships. Many of my friends were of similar ilk, but I was also good friends with people of other styles of life/partying. I have a diverse group of people in my life, from college athletes to stereotypical frat boys to art kids and antisocial nerds, etc. etc. Despite all of this, I still saw and experienced plenty. Many of my friends experienced far more than me. I've heard their stories- those are not the stories I'm telling you, as I am not a first person source. If my background is necessary to validate the purpose of my post, then so be it. Not so sure it should be, but I know where you're coming from. Also, I'd like to say thank you to you guys for reading my ramble. I was tearing up over here reading some of your responses. I cannot speak for all women, but I can give you a taste of something I think about (and talk with other women about) daily. I didn't ask for your background; it was pretty much a yes and no question. Your post is as valid as any other in this thread, and no more than that, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMWR100RT Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Just as long as she knows that we're not all like that. I worry that posts like that one paint the picture that the vast majority are like that. I don't know where the true numbers fall, but I'd venture the guess that most aren't. If women are being objectified, this feels like the male version of that, whatever you want to call it. Most people are decent. That is clearly born out in this lengthy thread. The thing that makes this thread so powerful is it's not written from one point of view, but by many. I remember drinking (1979) with a group of my college buddies at a bar. This was in the days when the drinking age was 18. I met a girl who joined us and we were having a great time. I would even say there was flirting and more drinking. A few of her girl friends showed up and took her away to "protect" her. They were way more sober and I was totally offended at the insinuation that she was in a bad situation. I didn't see it that way at all. But they weren't going to leave her with a bunch of guys when she was drinking. She was clearly annoyed to be taken away. The next day I had a talk with one of her friends who gave me a version of what Josie wrote and it was an eye-opener. I'll never forget that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) I didn't ask for your background; it was pretty much a yes and no question. Your post is as valid as any other in this thread, and no more than that, in my opinion.Can I nominate this as my least favorite post of the year? Seriously, asking someone to follow up and then being rude for them following up with an answer and supporting it (well). Thanks for your posts Josie, I've enjoyed reading them. Keep them coming (or run far away from this thread) Edited August 18, 2015 by Johnny DangerFace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Can I nominate this as my least favorite post of the year? Seriously, asking someone to follow up and then being rude for them following up with an answer and supporting it (well). The bit about the validity of her opinion was misdirected -- it was others (including me) who said her take should be given special consideration, greater weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 No we ###### don't, that's the the thing. What? that sort of "contest" is so clearly part of a rape culture. it's practically a wink-wink rape-a-thon (as it was called in the comments thread). So if 5 dudes have sex with a bunch of consenting women, and discuss it/keep score in a boorish manner, that's part of rape culture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Sizzle - Yikes man. You seem upset that Josie's post got great props and attention. Her post obviously has higher value than the others because she is explaining personal experience whereas most of us aren't experienced in the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I didn't ask for your background; it was pretty much a yes and no question. Your post is as valid as any other in this thread, and no more than that, in my opinion. This makes you sound like an . What? What do you mean what? "we'd kinda need to know what specifically happened to know whether the wife's characterization of the events as rape was correct, right?" No we don't need to know that because if the wife felt raped it is marital rape. She clearly did if she spoke to her husband about it. So her "characterization" was correct. That sentence of yours is ridiculous in numerous ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 So if 5 dudes have sex with a bunch of consenting women, and discuss it/keep score in a boorish manner, that's part of rape culture? Absolutely. You just don't seem to get it. What if it were your daughter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) So if 5 dudes have sex with a bunch of consenting women, and discuss it/keep score in a boorish manner, that's part of rape culture? Yes, it is. We're so uptight about sexual encounters that it's become a game for most men and some women. The "young banged HER" stuff gives men credits for having sex with certain women and further influences the men to make damn sure sex with them will occur. It further implants the "success through sex" mindset. Edited August 18, 2015 by Hoss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Uhm, she felt compelled to give her creds because she made the assumption I needed them for some reason. I was advising her that doing that was unnecessary. But, yeah, that's cool, I'm the big bad guy beating up on the innocent girl. Whatever. See how this happens? Sizzle - Yikes man. You seem upset that Josie's post got great props and attention. Her post obviously has higher value than the others because she is explaining personal experience whereas most of us aren't experienced in the matter. Her post is anecdotal and reflective. Frankly, if I were to rank posts in this thread, I would give far more credit to those with facts and data. But, even those posts are skewed with personal biases in a thread highly charged with biases. Her experiences and the conclusions she has arrived to are hers alone. Someone else with the same experiences would interpret them differently. Neither is right or wrong - none are gospel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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