Eleven Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Ah, everything I didn't miss here in the last several hours. Carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Ah, everything I didn't miss here in the last several hours. Carry on. I'm amazed there has been nothing from the Cambria camp yet. We butt heads on a lot of topics but this is your best post ever. Kuddos for saying what you did. I'm not happy to have to make it. But I appreciate your words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I'm amazed there has been nothing from the Cambria camp yet. Cutting losses. He really did not come off well there, at all. He's on the very short list of people you call if you get accused of serious stuff in this town, and the other two (Terry Connors and Joel Daniels) on that list probably don't even have Facebook accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Cambria is sticking with "no comment" about his comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 There's been a ton of anti-feminism from some posts in this thread. It may be misinformation and/or the common assumption that feminists are all loud, man-hating, ######-wielding in your streets crazies. They aren't. They just want women to continue progressing towards true equality. They are women AND men. We are not here to take over the world, just to make it better for others. You get extremists in every party/group that give that group a bad name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Here's what the first GD sentence of the Wikipedia article that Liger linked to bestowed upon us: "In feminist theory, rape culture is a setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality." Pervasive and normalized. Does anyone here really think rape is pervasive and normalized? "Dude, on your way home from practice, after you rape those chicks we were objectifying, can you pick up a case of Bud?" "Sure homie. Sounds totally normal to me." Give me a freaking break already. It's a terrible, violent crime that women are unfortunately much more at risk for because of the relative size of men and because of the flaws in some men's natures. But very few men commit rape. And no one thinks it's OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 First off, why are we taking definitions from a Wiki article? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyldnwoody44 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Something needs to break on this story one way or another, I haven't seen Kane mentioned in several pages, in a thread about him.... I've been a lurking a lot lately, but I stayed for away from some of the debates I've read considering my line of work, and personal experience with rape victims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Here's what the first GD sentence of the Wikipedia article that Liger linked to bestowed upon us: "In feminist theory, rape culture is a setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality." Pervasive and normalized. Does anyone here really think rape is pervasive and normalized? "Dude, on your way home from practice, after you rape those chicks we were objectifying, can you pick up a case of Bud?" "Sure homie. Sounds totally normal to me." Give me a freaking break already. It's a terrible, violent crime that women are unfortunately much more at risk for because of the relative size of men and because of the flaws in some men's natures. But very few men commit rape. And no one thinks it's OK. I have an experiment for you. Perhaps it will open your eyes. Go to any free porn site and type "rape" or "brutalized" or any number of violent words into the search. Then come here and try to tell me you don't think there are men out there every day looking for this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Here's what the first GD sentence of the Wikipedia article that Liger linked to bestowed upon us: "In feminist theory, rape culture is a setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality." Pervasive and normalized. Does anyone here really think rape is pervasive and normalized? "Dude, on your way home from practice, after you rape those chicks we were objectifying, can you pick up a case of Bud?" "Sure homie. Sounds totally normal to me." Give me a freaking break already. It's a terrible, violent crime that women are unfortunately much more at risk for because of the relative size of men and because of the flaws in some men's natures. But very few men commit rape. And no one thinks it's OK. I think you unduly discount widely distributed societal attitudes (ones neither you nor I share). Your hypothetical is hyperbole, and doesn't advance the discussion. I think the fact that approximately 18 percent of American women will be a victim of a sex crime in their lifetimes makes the crime far too common, and much too embedded in some cultural mores. Pervasive and normalized? Maybe strong words. For America. In other parts of the world, especially in developing nations? Such terms are quite apt. It's a Wiki definition, as another poster noted. No need for me to defend it, unduly. It bothers me, though, that people here (two mods no less) have taken broad swipes at feminism and women's studies in the context of this discussion, of all places. I recognize that there are pockets of both movements that are extreme or absurd. But to discount them as has been done here is out of line, especially given the context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Here's what the first GD sentence of the Wikipedia article that Liger linked to bestowed upon us: "In feminist theory, rape culture is a setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality." Pervasive and normalized. Does anyone here really think rape is pervasive and normalized? "Dude, on your way home from practice, after you rape those chicks we were objectifying, can you pick up a case of Bud?" "Sure homie. Sounds totally normal to me." Give me a freaking break already. It's a terrible, violent crime that women are unfortunately much more at risk for because of the relative size of men and because of the flaws in some men's natures. But very few men commit rape. And no one thinks it's OK. This is all a bit rich coming from the guy who thinks woken falsely accusing men of rape on college campuses is an epidemic . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I did. I passed on the conversation... You're fine, I just didn't understand specifically what it was you wanted to discuss. I am very open if there was something you considered off about that, I just wasn't sure what I missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) You think rapes start in the locker room? Is that what you are saying? Is that what rape culture means? The toleration of the objectification of women? I don't think it is anti-feminine at all to suggest that rapes are acts well beyond linguistic or even pornographic objectification. (As objectionable as those things may be). They are much more to do with disordered acts of violence and domination than with sexual gratification or even prowess. If every locker room in America adopted a code of silence where athletes were not allowed to speak at all, I think you would find the change in the country in sexual assaults would be statistically insignificant. I don't think anyone is saying Rape starts in the locker room. I think what you are finding however is that a competitive alpha make centric culture does in fact have an impact. Impact does not mean it is caused by, just that it can be a part of. There are multiple factors and cultural identities that lead to someone being capable of this crime. I found this article interesting while I was looking at rape culture this past week. Some of you may have access but some of you won't so I apologize. Rape culture is in truth a sociological perspective on why rape occurs. There are other disciplines which I have endeavored to explore that also have theories that contribute to the overall picture. http://www.jstor.org/stable/20698345?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents Edited August 18, 2015 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I have an experiment for you. Perhaps it will open your eyes. Go to any free porn site and type "rape" or "brutalized" or any number of violent words into the search. Then come here and try to tell me you don't think there are men out there every day looking for this stuff. If it exists, there is porn of it, guaranteed. That doesn't mean there's an epidemic/culture of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 If it exists, there is porn of it, guaranteed. That doesn't mean there's an epidemic/culture of it. Have you tried what I'm suggesting? You should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 ^ Who did the grand jury service with Penny Wolfgang? The effect of hierarchy in inclining subjects to favor acquittal was greatest among women; this finding was consistent with the hypothesis that hierarchical women have a distinctive interest in stigmatizing rape complainants whose behavior deviates from hierarchical gender norms. I don't think anyone is saying Rape starts in the locker room. I think what you are finding however is that a competitive alpha make centric culture does in fact have an impact. Impact does not mean it is caused by, just that it can be a part of. There are multiple factors and cultural identities that lead to someone being capable of this crime. I found this article interesting while I was looking at rape culture this past week. Some of you may have access but some of you won't so I apologize. Rape culture is in truth a sociological perspective on why rape occurs. There are other disciplines which I have endeavored to explore that also have theories that contribute to the overall picture. http://www.jstor.org/stable/20698345?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Have you tried what I'm suggesting? You should. I don't need to subject myself to the rape fantasies of others to know they exist, I'm not doubting they do. My point is, as with Hoss above, there are crazies in every group, that indicate we have a rape or pedophilla or weird octopus culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I don't need to subject myself to the rape fantasies of others to know they exist, I'm not doubting they do. My point is, as with Hoss above, there are crazies in every group, that indicate we have a rape or pedophilla or weird octopus culture. I think you're downplaying the occurrence of violent sexual desires in men. This isn't a new thing. It's been going on for centuries. And all someone needs to do to immerse themselves it in is to venture out into the places where over half of American men go with regularity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) The biological theories on rape and rape contingency behavior are interesting. They look at context specific reasons and cite some very interesting animal instances that occur. Again that being said, and I know I am repeating myself, rape is wrong. Edited August 18, 2015 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) I think you're downplaying the occurrence of violent sexual desires in men. This isn't a new thing. It's been going on for centuries. And all someone needs to do to immerse themselves it in is to venture out into the places where over half of American men go with regularity. "half" of those Americans. Good try. Enjoy some of pornhub's stats on this last year, you'll notice hardcore and rough fantasies like you mention are nowhere near as prevalent as you would make them out to be. http://www.pornhub.com/insights/2014-year-in-review And, as it turns out, it's mostly women looking for more intense porn. Can't really quote anything here, but it varies pretty significantly in the "rough" aspect than men search for. http://www.pornhub.com/insights/women-gender-demographics-searches EDIT: Misread your quote above; sorry you are right, half of us do regularly, we're just not searching for what you suggest is my point. Edited August 18, 2015 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 We don't have a furry culture, either. Or a transvestite culture. Or a lesbian culture or a gay male culture. There's plenty of that porn around, too. I'll bet there's more of that than rape porn. No question that rape is a serious crime and that women are especially vulnerable to it. No question that there is a significant percentage of women who will experience some form of unwelcome touching and a smaller, but more unfortunate, percentage who will experience rape. When I think of a "rape culture," I think of places where it is openly tolerated. That's not the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 "half" of those Americans. Good try. Enjoy some of pornhub's stats on this last year, you'll notice hardcore and rough fantasies like you mention are nowhere near as prevalent as you would make them out to be. http://www.pornhub.com/insights/2014-year-in-review And, as it turns out, it's mostly women looking for more intense porn. Can't really quote anything here, but it varies pretty significantly in the "rough" aspect than men search for. http://www.pornhub.com/insights/women-gender-demographics-searches Cite pornhub stats if you want. You're simply closing your eyes to something you don't want to see. I suggest again that you look and see for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 We don't have a furry culture, either. Or a transvestite culture. Or a lesbian culture or a gay male culture. There's plenty of that porn around, too. I'll bet there's more of that than rape porn. No question that rape is a serious crime and that women are especially vulnerable to it. No question that there is a significant percentage of women who will experience some form of unwelcome touching and a smaller, but more unfortunate, percentage who will experience rape. When I think of a "rape culture," I think of places where it is openly tolerated. That's not the US. Agreed. When I think of a rape culture, India immediately comes to mind. Cite pornhub stats if you want. You're simply closing your eyes to something you don't want to see. I suggest again that you look and see for yourself. Good argument d4rk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Agreed. When I think of a rape culture, India immediately comes to mind. Good argument d4rk You're the one refusing to do the leg work. I can't help you if you don't want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 You're the one refusing to do the leg work. I can't help you if you don't want to. You're joking, right? This has to be sarcasm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.