TrueBlueGED Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 A few of you have commented on microfracture surgery. What's the deal? I'm totally ignorant on this. What is the risk? What is the concern? Basically surgery breaks your knee a bunch (I think it technically punches a number of tiny holes in the bone in your knee) which releases cells that rebuild cartilage in the area, presumably stronger than the cartilage which is naturally remaining. For a normal person the recovery rate tends to be pretty good, but elite athletes often have trouble returning to full strength. Granted basketball is worse for your knees than hockey, but in addition to Greg Oden, Amare Stoudemire had it and was never the same athletically afterwards. I'm sure there are other examples too, and off the top of my head I can't think of anyone who had it and came back 100% (that doesn't mean it hasn't happened, I just can't think of any). Just seems that explosion and mobility never fully come back--for a guy like Gorges who was slow to begin with, it could be the death sentence on his career. I think it almost certainly spells the end of his time as a serviceable top-4 guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Teds probably ended Gorges's career a couple seasons early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Teds probably ended Gorges's career a couple seasons early. XB tried to make this point a bit ago, and I really just don't buy that it's Nolan's fault for Gorges' knee falling apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 See: Oden, Greg Not helpful. Basically surgery breaks your knee a bunch (I think it technically punches a number of tiny holes in the bone in your knee) which releases cells that rebuild cartilage in the area, presumably stronger than the cartilage which is naturally remaining. For a normal person the recovery rate tends to be pretty good, but elite athletes often have trouble returning to full strength. Granted basketball is worse for your knees than hockey, but in addition to Greg Oden, Amare Stoudemire had it and was never the same athletically afterwards. I'm sure there are other examples too, and off the top of my head I can't think of anyone who had it and came back 100% (that doesn't mean it hasn't happened, I just can't think of any). Just seems that explosion and mobility never fully come back--for a guy like Gorges who was slow to begin with, it could be the death sentence on his career. I think it almost certainly spells the end of his time as a serviceable top-4 guy. Helpful. OK, that makes sense. I kept thinking that microfracture surgery was surgery to repiar microfractures. Seemed pretty ordinary. But this is surgery that introduces microfractures to repair cartilidge damage. A whole nuther animal. that sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 XB tried to make this point a bit ago, and I really just don't buy that it's Nolan's fault for Gorges' knee falling apart. Not necessarily the knee, just looking at all the abuse his body took because this team kept him in Alamo-mode for so long so often. He was essentially the proverbial 400 carry power running back this year. Earl Campbell's career was short 'cause his coach destroyed his body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 XB tried to make this point a bit ago, and I really just don't buy that it's Nolan's fault for Gorges' knee falling apart. I never meant to suggest it Nolan was to blame for his knee...but more along the lines of this... Not necessarily the knee, just looking at all the abuse his body took because this team kept him in Alamo-mode for so long so often. He was essentially the proverbial 400 carry power running back this year. Earl Campbell's career was short 'cause his coach destroyed his body. Earl Campbell is what I was going for. Great analogy. The human body, like a car, only has so much mileage. Gorges played hard/hard minutes. He took much more of a beating in a half of a season this year, than he did all of last year in Montreal. The guy was laying it out there for up to 25 minutes some nights with no apparent scheme at all to take pressure off the defensive zone. Those were tough minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I never meant to suggest it Nolan was to blame for his knee...but more along the lines of this... Earl Campbell is what I was going for. Great analogy. The human body, like a car, only has so much mileage. Gorges played hard/hard minutes. He took much more of a beating in a half of a season this year, than he did all of last year in Montreal. The guy was laying it out there for up to 25 minutes some nights with no apparent scheme at all to take pressure off the defensive zone. Those were tough minutes. Fair enough. I just think the miles were already there, we just didn't realize it. It's sort of like blaming the Cardinals for Emmitt Smith's physical decline from my perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I see him on the 3rd pairing in a lot of fan projections. I think he's already show the ability to play on the second pairing as a regular... like 2 seasons ago. Yep. I have a man crush on Pysyk. He's definitely capable of top-4 play (although probably not top pair on an extended basis). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Yep. I have a man crush on Pysyk. He's definitely capable of top-4 play (although probably not top pair on an extended basis). The man tried to destroy the tank. I love his quiet game, definitely in our top 4. Risto/Bogo/Pysyk/UFA will be our top four, with Gorges/Weber rounding out the regulars and McCabe the AHL tweener Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Basically surgery breaks your knee a bunch (I think it technically punches a number of tiny holes in the bone in your knee) which releases cells that rebuild cartilage in the area, presumably stronger than the cartilage which is naturally remaining. For a normal person the recovery rate tends to be pretty good, but elite athletes often have trouble returning to full strength. Granted basketball is worse for your knees than hockey, but in addition to Greg Oden, Amare Stoudemire had it and was never the same athletically afterwards. I'm sure there are other examples too, and off the top of my head I can't think of anyone who had it and came back 100% (that doesn't mean it hasn't happened, I just can't think of any). Just seems that explosion and mobility never fully come back--for a guy like Gorges who was slow to begin with, it could be the death sentence on his career. I think it almost certainly spells the end of his time as a serviceable top-4 guy. Aren't those guys like 8 feet tall? The wear and tear on them from their sport should be a bit different than hockey. I'd be curious to see if there are some examples out there of hockey players going through it... or even non-giants in other sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Aren't those guys like 8 feet tall? The wear and tear on them from their sport should be a bit different than hockey. I'd be curious to see if there are some examples out there of hockey players going through it... or even non-giants in other sports. I'm sure there are other examples, I think a few in football at least. I don't recall any true success stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) @MatthewWGR: I'm hearing a guy to keep an eye on for Sabres defensive depth is Matt Hunwick 3rd Pairing D Man Good Fancy Stats Edited June 30, 2015 by BRAWNDO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 @MatthewWGR: I'm hearing a guy to keep an eye on for Sabres defensive depth is Matt Hunwick 3rd Pairing D Man Good Fancy Stats Sounds like a depth guy. Would rather they target the top 4. Could be a transitional move; when the prospects move up, hopefully they would leap-frog someone like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) Am I forgetting someone, or will the Sabres be looking for two defensemen this offseason(not to mention 2-3 blueliners for the Amerks)? If Gorges knee is screwed up after surgery, make it 3. Sabres Bogo Risto Gorges Weber Pysyk #6 - ??? #7 - ??? Rochester McCabe Ruhwedel Austin Leduc Edited June 30, 2015 by LabattBlue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Am I forgetting someone, or will the Sabres be looking for two defensemen this offseason(not to mention 2-3 blueliners for the Amerks)? If Gorges knee is screwed up after surgery, make it 3. Sabres Bogo Risto Gorges Weber Pysyk #6 - ??? #7 - ??? Rochester McCabe Ruhwedel Austin Leduc McCabe or Ruhwedel will be the 7. They're only an hour down the road Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 McCabe or Ruhwedel will be the 7. They're only an hour down the road I disagree. What about when the Sabres are on the road? I would almost guarantee that they will be carrying 7 blueliners at all times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I disagree. What about when the Sabres are on the road? I would almost guarantee that they will be carrying 7 blueliners at all times. Delauriers can fill in on D if we are desperate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Sounds like a depth guy. Would rather they target the top 4. Could be a transitional move; when the prospects move up, hopefully they would leap-frog someone like that. I wouldn't be surprised to get a top-4 and a depth guy, or as I would refer to him, the "we don't want Mike Weber on the ice" acquisition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickshaw Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Oduya or Sekera. really want Oduya Do we really want a 35 year old defenseman? i say we look younger than Oduya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Do we really want a 35 year old defenseman? i say we look younger than Oduya. We're loaded with young guys in Risto, Pysyk, Bogo and McCabe. Martin and Florentino in a few years. We'll likely look at one of the many experienced vets. Mike Green maybe. He's 29 and right handed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickshaw Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Mike Green would be a good player on some teams, but don't see him as the guy to lead the way for our youth. I just think it's silly to go for 35 year old guys. I'm ok with 29, 30, 31 tops but the minutes and the position can really erode you. Not everyone is Chris Chelios and play until they're 103. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Do we really want a 35 year old defenseman? i say we look younger than Oduya. Why not? I would welcome it. Even without Zadorov we have a good stable of defensemen, including some young guys who could eventually play in the Top 4. I'm not worried about his age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Should we be in on this? Helene Elliott ✔@helenenothelen Bob Murray said Ducks couldn't come to terms with Beauchemin, who plans to test market. Said Beauchemin mentioned 3 years at $5 million per Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Should we be in on this? Helene Elliott ✔@helenenothelen Bob Murray said Ducks couldn't come to terms with Beauchemin, who plans to test market. Said Beauchemin mentioned 3 years at $5 million per That third year is what gets me. As a 35+ contract we're stuck with him even if his pay falls off the proverbial cliff at 38. I could probably talk myself into it, but I'd much rather get a 2 year deal at that age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Beauchemin 2x6.5mil would be my offer. Then if he still wants to play and is still useful we'd just give him lesser salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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